Had a rather unfortunate experience today playing a very unsportsmanlike opponent and I was wondering what would happen if I were to be matched with that person in the future. Is it possible to flat out refuse to play against an opponent in Competitive or Premier events? Maybe ask to be paired down with the next guy in the rankings paired up? Of course in Casual events, I can just walk out... I can't imagine asking a TO/Judge to babysit a table.

Are there rules for this? Has anyone come across this? I would love to hear of other's experiences or even what my options are should this arise again. I probably won't come across that player again, but I want to know what my options are if that should arise. The Armada player base isn't really very big at the moment.

Thanks!

Because FFG uses swiss-style pairings for tournaments, you are going to play whomever you play, unfortunately.

With that said, if you have a negative past history with an opponent, tell the TO beforehand and make sure they do keep a close eye on your game. Literally the job of the TO, and if you are calm, professional, and reasonable about it beforehand, it will help you dramatically if any issues arise.

The worst thing you can do is get emotional.

As a TO there isn't much I can officially do to mess with matches. Especially in competitive and premier events. However, if you have had a problem with a player in the past, depending on the transgression, talk to the TO in advance and let them know of all problems.

Also, was it just some petty crap (ie just crying and complaining) or something quite serious (blatant cheating/lying)? If the incident(s) were bad enough, did you talk to a TO at the event at the time?

This is the reason GW tournaments started adding player sourveys which counted towards the total points for victory. You could take away point for bad sportsmanship. In my experience it worked pretty well. You made sure your opponent liked playing against you. It made for some very pleasant games.

Define "unsportsmanlike" in this context. There is a whole range of things that could encompass.

I'd agree in any case with advice of talking to the TO before hand. Be calm and charming and tell the tale of the prior problem and ask them to keep an eye on things.

Then go to the table and be calm and charming and do your best to make sure that you're not the problem.

This is the reason GW tournaments started adding player sourveys which counted towards the total points for victory. You could take away point for bad sportsmanship. In my experience it worked pretty well. You made sure your opponent liked playing against you. It made for some very pleasant games.

Actually what it lead to initially was teams gaming the system to deny points to opponents.

Eventually the store I played at basically made it mandatory to give a detailed explanation for anything less than a perfect score. Unfortunate.

One hand playing someone who is unpleasant is not nice, but this could so easily be abused, and devolve into he/she said. or someone deciding the don't like the person they are playing, and are friends with the TO, unlimited abuse potential.

Unless they are provably cheating, suck it up.

As Frimmel Said : I'd agree in any case with advice of talking to the TO before hand. Be calm and charming and tell the tale of the prior problem and ask them to keep an eye on things.

Then go to the table and be calm and charming and do your best to make sure that you're not the problem.

That is about all you can do.

Had a rather unfortunate experience today playing a very unsportsmanlike opponent and I was wondering what would happen if I were to be matched with that person in the future. Is it possible to flat out refuse to play against an opponent in Competitive or Premier events? Maybe ask to be paired down with the next guy in the rankings paired up? Of course in Casual events, I can just walk out... I can't imagine asking a TO/Judge to babysit a table.

Are there rules for this? Has anyone come across this? I would love to hear of other's experiences or even what my options are should this arise again. I probably won't come across that player again, but I want to know what my options are if that should arise. The Armada player base isn't really very big at the moment.

Thanks!

I assume this was at the Sheffield Regional since I remember the TO Keith calling out a list with your name on prior to starting.

Please expand on the opponents behaviour, if he was that bad you should have approached the TO and asked him to help.

Sorry to hear it's spoilt your experience.

I've always been a casual player and never did mind losing to a well-played game but this experience really soured the game. Thankfully, I had three awesome games beforehand so I know it's not the game but the gamer.

Scenario:

His Screed is in a Glad 1 with 1 hull left and 2 remaining shields on the left side. I shoot at it from the front arc of my Glad 1 (to his rear arc) and I had a reroll token. I get four hits, I have Screed and APTs. I see my four hits, I say "Ah! I don't even need the reroll" and proceed to put the token back on my ship card. Before I could even look up, he goes "I brace it and redirect to my two remaining shields, I live! Thank you!" I told him I've not even Screed-ed yet and he says the opportunity has passed and I didn't even modify the dice anyway (as I put my token back) and he's already dealt the damage. I said no, I just didn't need the reroll, not with 4 hits on 4 dice, but I could still Screed and kick in the APTs. No, he's already dealt the damage, and he wouldn't let me Screed.

Note that he was comfortable taking backsies on his own actions before and after this bit.

In 20-20 hindsight and with the benefit of rest, I should've called the TO at this point but that was the 4th game, maybe around 6pm and I was there since 8:30am and was up since 5:30am so a very long day. I would not want to say what the TO would've ruled at that point but suffice to say I've called him over at least 3 times prior in earlier games and he was very patient and went by the rules as I understood them (or as I was made to understand them! I learned at least 2 new [good] things yesterday!) so I would probably been happier with an official ruling.

You could have very easily argued this. Screed is not a reroll. If the quote/recollection is correct he unilaterally eneded the action (before you had even finished the physical action), using a filsmy pretense, to gain a favourable result. It he sounds like he knows exactly what he was doing. SO if all of that is correct **** him, his kind and if you sir are reading this thread **** you, **** cheesers ruining the fun. My area, way to many instances of it.

Also do what the opponent does. If they do backsies, you do backsies. If they argue about it point out their own backsies.

However don't use this as a rule because they might call a judge and it will probablly go in their favor if what you are doing is not correct (even if they were doing it)

Never allow yourself to be pressured by an opponent. I simply say "Wait". The game cannot progress from here until you a) talk it out b) call a TO/Judge.

Most importantly aim to play correctly all the time and tell the opponent to do likewise. It avoids trouble in the first place.

Also tell people about this player or ask about him. Not to gossip but other players should know if they are going to play against a powergaming cheeser. You will also find out if it is consistent behavior on their part.

I've always been a casual player and never did mind losing to a well-played game but this experience really soured the game. Thankfully, I had three awesome games beforehand so I know it's not the game but the gamer.

Scenario:

His Screed is in a Glad 1 with 1 hull left and 2 remaining shields on the left side. I shoot at it from the front arc of my Glad 1 (to his rear arc) and I had a reroll token. I get four hits, I have Screed and APTs. I see my four hits, I say "Ah! I don't even need the reroll" and proceed to put the token back on my ship card. Before I could even look up, he goes "I brace it and redirect to my two remaining shields, I live! Thank you!" I told him I've not even Screed-ed yet and he says the opportunity has passed and I didn't even modify the dice anyway (as I put my token back) and he's already dealt the damage. I said no, I just didn't need the reroll, not with 4 hits on 4 dice, but I could still Screed and kick in the APTs. No, he's already dealt the damage, and he wouldn't let me Screed.

Note that he was comfortable taking backsies on his own actions before and after this bit.

In 20-20 hindsight and with the benefit of rest, I should've called the TO at this point but that was the 4th game, maybe around 6pm and I was there since 8:30am and was up since 5:30am so a very long day. I would not want to say what the TO would've ruled at that point but suffice to say I've called him over at least 3 times prior in earlier games and he was very patient and went by the rules as I understood them (or as I was made to understand them! I learned at least 2 new [good] things yesterday!) so I would probably been happier with an official ruling.

In truth it seems like he jumped the gun and thought you where finished and misunderstood and those things do happen and in a tournament people are always on edge but in truth the opportunity has not passed until you informed the player you have finished modifying you attack. If he misunderstood you that's his own error and I can see that pulses would be racing as its an important event that means a big difference to the game. Its at this point if you don't agree to just call a pause and ask a TO to make a call on the actions it is after all part of the reason they are on hand.

I've always been a casual player and never did mind losing to a well-played game but this experience really soured the game. Thankfully, I had three awesome games beforehand so I know it's not the game but the gamer.

Scenario:

His Screed is in a Glad 1 with 1 hull left and 2 remaining shields on the left side. I shoot at it from the front arc of my Glad 1 (to his rear arc) and I had a reroll token. I get four hits, I have Screed and APTs. I see my four hits, I say "Ah! I don't even need the reroll" and proceed to put the token back on my ship card. Before I could even look up, he goes "I brace it and redirect to my two remaining shields, I live! Thank you!" I told him I've not even Screed-ed yet and he says the opportunity has passed and I didn't even modify the dice anyway (as I put my token back) and he's already dealt the damage. I said no, I just didn't need the reroll, not with 4 hits on 4 dice, but I could still Screed and kick in the APTs. No, he's already dealt the damage, and he wouldn't let me Screed.

Note that he was comfortable taking backsies on his own actions before and after this bit.

In 20-20 hindsight and with the benefit of rest, I should've called the TO at this point but that was the 4th game, maybe around 6pm and I was there since 8:30am and was up since 5:30am so a very long day. I would not want to say what the TO would've ruled at that point but suffice to say I've called him over at least 3 times prior in earlier games and he was very patient and went by the rules as I understood them (or as I was made to understand them! I learned at least 2 new [good] things yesterday!) so I would probably been happier with an official ruling.

Sounds like a bad experience indeed. Too bad it couldn't be resolved then and there by the TO.

That said you are not in a position to refuse to play this guy in future tournaments.

I've always been a casual player and never did mind losing to a well-played game but this experience really soured the game. Thankfully, I had three awesome games beforehand so I know it's not the game but the gamer.

Scenario:

His Screed is in a Glad 1 with 1 hull left and 2 remaining shields on the left side. I shoot at it from the front arc of my Glad 1 (to his rear arc) and I had a reroll token. I get four hits, I have Screed and APTs. I see my four hits, I say "Ah! I don't even need the reroll" and proceed to put the token back on my ship card. Before I could even look up, he goes "I brace it and redirect to my two remaining shields, I live! Thank you!" I told him I've not even Screed-ed yet and he says the opportunity has passed and I didn't even modify the dice anyway (as I put my token back) and he's already dealt the damage. I said no, I just didn't need the reroll, not with 4 hits on 4 dice, but I could still Screed and kick in the APTs. No, he's already dealt the damage, and he wouldn't let me Screed.

Note that he was comfortable taking backsies on his own actions before and after this bit.

In 20-20 hindsight and with the benefit of rest, I should've called the TO at this point but that was the 4th game, maybe around 6pm and I was there since 8:30am and was up since 5:30am so a very long day. I would not want to say what the TO would've ruled at that point but suffice to say I've called him over at least 3 times prior in earlier games and he was very patient and went by the rules as I understood them (or as I was made to understand them! I learned at least 2 new [good] things yesterday!) so I would probably been happier with an official ruling.

This is indeed something annoying, and by your description he was clearly in the wrong. Putting a token back on your card meant nothing. Indeed, you should have called the TO over, and refused to move the game forward until this was resolved.

But is there more to this story?

If not, then I would say to be prepared to confront this guy next time you are paired with him at a tournament - not necessarily with what happened on the previous tournament, but the very next instance that he's going to rules-lawyer you with made-up stuff.

Tournament Rules, Page 6, "Missed Opportunities"

Players are expected to act with respect and not intentionally distract or rush an opponent with the intent of forcing a missed opportunity.

No worries guys. I know the rules and I know my biggest missed opportunity was calling the TO over. I was tired, I was hungry, it was a long day. Point is he knew what he did was wrong, he knew I questioned it, but he decided to act the way he acted. We were top table, he was flying Screed and ACMs. I don't think he "didn't know" or misunderstood and his attitude after that event reflected it. I didn't really want to play him after that and don't really want to play against him again.

That said you are not in a position to refuse to play this guy in future tournaments.

Really? I'm pretty sure I can concede to him, refuse to play him outright and give him a full win. I'm sure he'd like that very much. My point of this thread was to investigate whether there are other options available aside from this one (full win) or having a TO the entire time.

I've always been a casual player and never did mind losing to a well-played game but this experience really soured the game. Thankfully, I had three awesome games beforehand so I know it's not the game but the gamer.

Scenario:

His Screed is in a Glad 1 with 1 hull left and 2 remaining shields on the left side. I shoot at it from the front arc of my Glad 1 (to his rear arc) and I had a reroll token. I get four hits, I have Screed and APTs. I see my four hits, I say "Ah! I don't even need the reroll" and proceed to put the token back on my ship card. Before I could even look up, he goes "I brace it and redirect to my two remaining shields, I live! Thank you!" I told him I've not even Screed-ed yet and he says the opportunity has passed and I didn't even modify the dice anyway (as I put my token back) and he's already dealt the damage. I said no, I just didn't need the reroll, not with 4 hits on 4 dice, but I could still Screed and kick in the APTs. No, he's already dealt the damage, and he wouldn't let me Screed.

Note that he was comfortable taking backsies on his own actions before and after this bit.

In 20-20 hindsight and with the benefit of rest, I should've called the TO at this point but that was the 4th game, maybe around 6pm and I was there since 8:30am and was up since 5:30am so a very long day. I would not want to say what the TO would've ruled at that point but suffice to say I've called him over at least 3 times prior in earlier games and he was very patient and went by the rules as I understood them (or as I was made to understand them! I learned at least 2 new [good] things yesterday!) so I would probably been happier with an official ruling.

In truth it seems like he jumped the gun and thought you where finished and misunderstood and those things do happen and in a tournament people are always on edge but in truth the opportunity has not passed until you informed the player you have finished modifying you attack. If he misunderstood you that's his own error and I can see that pulses would be racing as its an important event that means a big difference to the game. Its at this point if you don't agree to just call a pause and ask a TO to make a call on the actions it is after all part of the reason they are on hand.

I know who he is refering to and I'm afraid the player knew exactly what he was doing.....

It is sad when people can't win off their own backs and have to pull silly like tricks like this to get an advantage, if you can't win off your own back and have to be scummy then why bother? I am happy to say this kind of thing is very rare I play a lot of X-wing and have been to all levels of competition for it except for Worlds and out of the hundreds of people I have played I can only think of one that irked me and that was because he made a mistake and then afterwards knowing he was losing tried to get a TO involved because me winning = Time wasting (At that point I killed half of his list for 1 or two points of damage in return so he needed as much time as possible to play catch up so faster the rounds the better.)

The mentality will always be there in some capacity but thankfully no where near as bad as I've heard other games such as 40k or to some extent warmachine/hordes can be.

That said you are not in a position to refuse to play this guy in future tournaments.

Really? I'm pretty sure I can concede to him, refuse to play him outright and give him a full win. I'm sure he'd like that very much. My point of this thread was to investigate whether there are other options available aside from this one (full win) or having a TO the entire time.

And that's what you read out of my post? Really?

What I meant was you have nothing on this guy. You didn't call him out when out it happened so the opportunity is gone. He probably also had a different version of the thing: that you were done modifying your dice and over to him. Not saying he's right, but that's going to be his version.

You either play him or go ahead and concede the next time you see him. Your call, but I'd suggest playing him and beating him

I had a game the other day where I'm pretty sure I ended up being the unsporting guy. I apologized for my sour attitude after the game but omg it was frustrating. I had made 5-6 attacks on his objective ship, thinking that his second ship was the objective ship, before he made an observation about it. My fault for somehow missing it at the beginning of the game. But still really frustrating as that basically cost me the match. His destroyer would have been dead and unable to kill or damage the things it killed or damaged. So... yeah, I was salty about that.

Then in the second to last round I had a guaranteed two damage on his ISD, and it needed 1 to die. It hadn't had shields in a while so I hadn't been bothering to call hull zones - especially since it was obvious I had shots on the entire base of the mini. My opponent would ask if I wanted to target whatever zone and I'd say sure.

So for this last attack to tie up the game and secure a 5/5 split I do the same deal. He does the same deal. We do the deal. I modify my dice, get in my 2 damage, and he says "I redirect to the rear."

That's it. Game loss. I'm done. I had somehow missed his shield recovery action, I let him declare "the middle" because it hadn't mattered in like 3-4 attacks. But I had a shot on his front hull zone clear as day. I was so utterly pissed. If quitting didn't result in a TKO for the opponent I'd have quit the game right there.

My opponent hadn't done anything wrong. It was just sloppy plays on my part for the last game of the day. But idk you just had to be there. It felt off. I was a bad sport about it though and was kinda surly while we finished the game. I think I made him uncomfortable. So I was I was sorry for my attitude after.

But holy crap guys. So mad. So incredibly mad.

I had a game the other day where I'm pretty sure I ended up being the unsporting guy. I apologized for my sour attitude after the game but omg it was frustrating. I had made 5-6 attacks on his objective ship, thinking that his second ship was the objective ship, before he made an observation about it. My fault for somehow missing it at the beginning of the game. But still really frustrating as that basically cost me the match. His destroyer would have been dead and unable to kill or damage the things it killed or damaged. So... yeah, I was salty about that.

Then in the second to last round I had a guaranteed two damage on his ISD, and it needed 1 to die. It hadn't had shields in a while so I hadn't been bothering to call hull zones - especially since it was obvious I had shots on the entire base of the mini. My opponent would ask if I wanted to target whatever zone and I'd say sure.

So for this last attack to tie up the game and secure a 5/5 split I do the same deal. He does the same deal. We do the deal. I modify my dice, get in my 2 damage, and he says "I redirect to the rear."

That's it. Game loss. I'm done. I had somehow missed his shield recovery action, I let him declare "the middle" because it hadn't mattered in like 3-4 attacks. But I had a shot on his front hull zone clear as day. I was so utterly pissed. If quitting didn't result in a TKO for the opponent I'd have quit the game right there.

My opponent hadn't done anything wrong. It was just sloppy plays on my part for the last game of the day. But idk you just had to be there. It felt off. I was a bad sport about it though and was kinda surly while we finished the game. I think I made him uncomfortable. So I was I was sorry for my attitude after.

But holy crap guys. So mad. So incredibly mad.

We all have those moments where we just don't think and outplay our selves. It's worse when you outplay yourself by being stupid rather than your opponent outplaying you.

Re: the OP
In casual play you can absolutely refuse to play someone. If/when this ends up happening, it can be an effective if crude method for telling someone they're not the kind of player others enjoy gaming with. I'd recommend being frank but as polite as possible when the inevitable "why?" comes up or else you just look catty for losing your last game (or at least they'll interpret it that way).

In a tournament, all you can do is call a TO when something iffy happens. Do it immediately. Otherwise, all you can do is concede upon playing the (insert derogatory term here), which rewards him/her for earlier bad behavior and therefore I strongly recommend against it.

Re: the stories of other bad Armada nerds

A lot of these tales seem to come down to "we had a relaxed state of play that suddenly changed when it was to the bad nerd's benefit, and I didn't call him/her on it." The solution is either/both of:

1. Always be explicit and tight in your gameplay. Casual games can still be fun and low-stress (make dumb jokes, allow take-backsies, don't sweat the little stuff) even with tight gameplay (following all steps in order, verifying with your opponent when he is done with certain steps, etc.) and perhaps most importantly, when you're well-practiced on tighter gameplay you don't need to remember to do it in competitive events. It also helps a lot to be very communicative about what you're doing and why and allow your opponent to do the same. This leaves very little room for shenanigans.
2. Call your opponent on nonsense. I understand that the initial idea is to not cause a scene by just agreeing with your opponent and moving on with life. The problem is you're going to be a lot more embarrassed with yourself in the long run if you just let it slide. If upon being challenged your opponent doesn't return to a reasonable state, then you need to call a TO over (in a competitive event), a knowledgeable neutral third party (on a casual game night) or failing those being available, you need to flip/dice for it and keep going.

No worries guys. I know the rules and I know my biggest missed opportunity was calling the TO over. I was tired, I was hungry, it was a long day. Point is he knew what he did was wrong, he knew I questioned it, but he decided to act the way he acted. We were top table, he was flying Screed and ACMs. I don't think he "didn't know" or misunderstood and his attitude after that event reflected it. I didn't really want to play him after that and don't really want to play against him again.

That said you are not in a position to refuse to play this guy in future tournaments.

Really? I'm pretty sure I can concede to him, refuse to play him outright and give him a full win. I'm sure he'd like that very much. My point of this thread was to investigate whether there are other options available aside from this one (full win) or having a TO the entire time.

On a side note. How did you put a token back? Navigate tokens are the closest thing that can be done with but CF tokens with a CF dial can not be done.

Re: the stories of other bad Armada nerds

A lot of these tales seem to come down to "we had a relaxed state of play that suddenly changed when it was to the bad nerd's benefit, and I didn't call him/her on it." The solution is either/both of:

• Always be explicit and tight in your gameplay. Casual games can still be fun and low-stress (make dumb jokes, allow take-backsies, don't sweat the little stuff) even with tight gameplay (following all steps in order, verifying with your opponent when he is done with certain steps, etc.) and perhaps most importantly, when you're well-practiced on tighter gameplay you don't need to remember to do it in competitive events. It also helps a lot to be very communicative about what you're doing and why and allow your opponent to do the same. This leaves very little room for shenanigans.
• Call your opponent on nonsense. I understand that the initial idea is to not cause a scene by just agreeing with your opponent and moving on with life. The problem is you're going to be a lot more embarrassed with yourself in the long run if you just let it slide. If upon being challenged your opponent doesn't return to a reasonable state, then you need to call a TO over (in a competitive event), a knowledgeable neutral third party (on a casual game night) or failing those being available, you need to flip/dice for it and keep going.

Forcing tight play on all aspects and cultivating it into a casual environment is important to me. It means everyone is on the same footing

having been there and knowing what was at stake this happened because a spot on the final cut for the top 2 was at stake. More than likely the desire to make that final cut caused the situation thats happened Its not great but unfortunetly its human nature isn't it ? Nobody likes to lose.

At the end of the day its just a table top board game, yes its a bitter blow to take at the time but it's not the end of the world, we have to learn from it and endeavour to become better players from it.

You'll no doubt see him at the Nationals and IF you end up playing him hopefully you'll smash him

Chin up mate

I watched towards the end of this game after I'd finished my game, being on table 3, and the way you out played him seemed to be making him more stressed. I must have missed the Screed incident, but with the fleet you were playing (3 Glads + some fighters) you were always spamming Nav commands and the way he reacted when you had forgotten to turn over your command dial was bad. Yes, he was correct on calling you up on it and not letting you do the extra click, but the way he jumped on the incident was aggressive, and the way he acted when you offered your hand after you beat him was like a pouty child folding his arms and refusing to go to his bed because he'd been naughty.

I know it was a long day and I was getting frustrated (Private Rymer (yes he's been demoted) and his bunch couldn't shoot and fish in a barrel, if the fish was a whale shark, the barrel had plank length diametre, using a Reality Bomb), but I showed it to the game, not the player.

People need to remember we are just moving plastic toys to winning some more plastic things to go with the game we enjoy and keep it in context.

If it was our livelyhood and we and were getting paid, even then his attitude was bad.

Well done on the Regional win