The title's kinda misleading or vague. But it's hard for me to explain it properly, so, I'll sum it up as elegantly as I can. Basically, I'm building a SnV squad using Fett, Dengar, and Zuckus in a game where the total squad points allowed is determined by how high I can make my squad. So, if my squad points add up to 178, then their squad can max up to 178/180 or something like that. Yeah, we're that kind of strange. The idea here was that if there was no max budget on the squad points for these three ships I'll use, would they still be the best at what they do. Or not and fail spectacularly. But, it's really just for fun. So, let the drinking and mouth-made engine noises begin.

So my restrictions are that the Firespray-31 will always be Boba Fett with the Slave I title, JumpMaster 5000 with Dengar with the Punishing One title, and G-1A Starfighter with Zuckuss and the Mist Hunter title. I'm not that picky with throwing 4-LOM in the Mist Hunter (never really cared for him) but I'm open to suggestions. Anyway, maybe once this happens I'll have a better idea of what I'm going up against the next time around and then build a list to counter that, but, for now I'm trying to prepare for as many possibilities as I can. As of now, I've got a setup for what I think will be a "Ace hunter" list and a "anti-swarm/arc dodge" list.

Disclaimer, I'm generally new to the game. I've only played twice and none of those games ever finished. The idea behind why this is so crazy is to spice up the gameplay for more epic/varied experiences. And maybe for science? Yeah maybe that, too. Anyway, here we are. I'd appreciate any feedback for what each specific variant does and what it needs to do. I'm trying to maximize their efficiency where I can spend it. From what I know, it's really me and two other guys playing these games. I'll be SnV, and one will be Imperials and the other Rebels. What will they fly? No clue. But I'm pretty sure the Rebel guy will be using the Falcon. But is the Imp guy smart enough to use a TIE swarm against me or go all out with ace pilots (most likely flying the TIE Advanced with Vader, probably finding a way to put the Emperor in there somewhere if he can). No clue. Also, I wouldn't mind considering building a squad to fight those giant capitol ships. Now I'm just getting ahead of myself. So, here's what I got! Any help is appreciated!

Ace Killer

Firespray-31: · Boba Fett (39)

• Veteran Instincts (1)
• Cluster Missiles (4)
• Heavy Laser Cannon (7)
• Cluster Mines (4)
• Engine Upgrade (4)
• Gunner (5)
• · Slave I (0)
• Glitterstim (2)
• Extra Munitions (2)

JumpMaster 5000: · Dengar (33)

• Push The Limit (3)
• Flechette Torpedoes (2)
• Extra Munitions (2)
• Engine Upgrade (4)
• · "Gonk" (2)
• · Punishing One (12)
• Glitterstim (2)
• Unhinged Astromech (1)

G-1A Starfighter: · Zuckuss (38)

• Veteran Instincts (1)
• Accuracy Corrector (3)
• · Experimental Interface (3)
• Gunner (5)
• · Mist Hunter (0)
• Glitterstim (2)
• Tractor Beam (1)

Total: 172

Notes: Basically, every last upgrade loaded to best take out those fat juicy big named acquisitions. Fett works alone in the corners of the board while Dengar uses that turret radius to herd them towards Fett like a sheep dog. Zuckuss? He expedites between the two hunters when need be and causes tractor beam havoc when he can but mostly is there to help Dengar out.

Anti-Swarm/Zerg

Firespray-31: · Boba Fett (39)

• Push The Limit (3)
• Assault Missiles (5)
• Heavy Laser Cannon (7)
• Proton Bombs (5)
• Engine Upgrade (4)
• · "Gonk" (2)
• · Slave I (0)
• Glitterstim (2)
• Extra Munitions (2)

JumpMaster 5000: · Dengar (33)

• Outmaneuver (3)
• Ion Torpedoes (2)
• Extra Munitions (2)
• Engine Upgrade (4)
• ·Recon Specialist (3)
• · Punishing One (12)
• Glitterstim (2)
• R4 Agromech (2)

G-1A Starfighter: · Zuckuss (38)

• Wired (1)
• Sensor Jammer (4)
• · Engine Upgrade (4)
• Navigator (3)
• · Mist Hunter (0)
• Glitterstim (2)
• Tractor Beam (1)

Total: 178

Notes: Arc Dodging. Arc Dodging everywhere. Gonk's there to ensure Fett's survival. He'll lone wolf it as he can and swoop back through Dengar's radius if he needs to clean off any bandits stupid enough to follow. Dengar kills their agility and one shots what he can. Zuckuss abuses the Barrel Roll while rolling 5 red dice at range one.

That's all I got. Any other possible strategies I should prepare for beyond just aces and zergs? I don't think they care enough to do any official tournament squad lists or competitive stuff. But, I'd be interested in building a Capitol Ship Killer squad list if anyone wants to get me started on that. Thanks!

I don't really understand the format/purpose. It looks like you've jammed as much crap on 3 ships as you could, then said "ok opponent, go make a list that has as many points as I just made". That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works...

So that being said, how do you think your list is going to work against 4 VT-49's carrying Palpatine, Vader, Isard, and Rebel Captive? Because that's what I'm bringing to dinner...

Agreed that the 100pt deal is to level the playing field, making you have to make those decisions between fully loaded Boba and fly loaded Dengar and such. Maybe you guys should try 150pt games. At least then it's a number that you all can aim for, and still makes you have to make some decisions.

To your list: Lose Gonk. He has his uses, but this is not one of them. Use something that will provide consistent benefit, like a K4 Security Droid, or 4LOM, or even tactician. Gonk is action dependent recovery, and because of that, action economy has to be through the roof for him to be viable.

On your second Zuckuss, why Wired? I can only see you getting stressed from red maneuvers and Glitterstim. If you want a maneuverable Zuckuss, throw Stay on Target on there. With Navigator, it allows you to change your dial to any maneuver, but you'll be able to see what's developed so far when doing so. Works better on 4LOM, because you can pass the stress off of you position correctly. And with Advanced Sensors, you can take your action before moving (and stressing) allowing you a lot of flexibility. Only issue is lower pilot skill, which in the format your describing, could be a problem. I would honestly take a K4 Security Droid or Outlaw Tech on Zuckuss. His ability allows for use every turn, you just need to maximize the red dice you're throwing. Maybe Predator would be good on him to help the dice out a bit too.

So if you're new, there's a lesson you should learn (and probably will, if you take this list):

Just because a slot exists does not mean you should fill it.

Each slot exists to do different jobs in different builds, and filling all the slots overloads a ship and leads to wasted points. Take the classic TIE Bomber; it has 2 Torp and Missile slots, but will probably only fire between 2 and 4 times before being destroyed or winning the game. With Extra Munitions in one slot, that means you only need one more ordnance upgrade, or two if you're feeling optimistic, leaving one slot as a points trap.

If you're going to do this format, probably better to just say "200 points" and try to fit Bossk in there as well; he did work with Bossk on occasion. Or just go 150 and shoot for a price of around ~50 on each ship.

Dengar by himself is just fine with Title+Engine Upgrade+Push the Limit+K4 Sec Droid+Unhinged, no need for any torps at all. K4 + PTL gives him 3 actions a turn, which is pretty good action economy.

Experimental Interface does NOTHING for Zuckuss; it only works with upgrade cards that have an Action: header, not the ship's standard actions. So something like Expert Handling or Expose. Now THAT might be a fun Zuckuss Railgun. Expose+Experimental Interface+K4+Glitterstim; expensive at 41 (with title) but so deadly.

If you're going Cluster Missiles + EM on Boba Fett, I'd say ditch the Gunner and HLC - HLC works counter to his ability, and Clusters work REALLY well. Thermal Detonator is also a lot more thematic to Boba, and with his high PS you'll get the most bang from a "Reveal your dial" bomb rather than an "Action: Drop" bomb. EU might well be unnecessary when he's one of the few ships that can use the "Turn blank to crit" clause of Guidance Chips; however, it does cut down on his positioning...

Well that's how this game works?

I should probably clarify that we're not the competitive tournament playing types. We generally just get drunk, play, and shout at each other. So, we alter rules like "100 Squad Point Total." Plus, there are no real plans for myself to play normally with anyone else. So maybe he'll do four Decimators? I don't see him doing that for the first time. I can definitely see him getting payback and shelling out the money for three more of them for the next game. But, maybe then I'll swap out some different upgrades then. What upgrades are those? I don't know. That's why I'm here. The question isn't how I think my list will work, but more like, what upgrades/tactics should I use if that happens.

Well that's how this game works?

I should probably clarify that we're not the competitive tournament playing types. We generally just get drunk, play, and shout at each other. So, we alter rules like "100 Squad Point Total." Plus, there are no real plans for myself to play normally with anyone else. So maybe he'll do four Decimators? I don't see him doing that for the first time. I can definitely see him getting payback and shelling out the money for three more of them for the next game. But, maybe then I'll swap out some different upgrades then. What upgrades are those? I don't know. That's why I'm here. The question isn't how I think my list will work, but more like, what upgrades/tactics should I use if that happens.

Sure, I get it. The problem is, if you're just ignoring rules/guidelines, then there's no real point/possibility in debating what upgrades are appropriate, because suddenly the upgrade cost is irrelevant. Since *no one* here (obviously at least one exception, but statistically insignificant) builds squad lists by first saying "ok, points don't matter, I just like to get sloshed", then we're really talking about two different games. One game is the game that *everybody else here plays*, or as I like to call it "by the rules and guidelines". The other is your version. Which I'm sure is tons of fun. There's just no relevant baseline for us to compare it to.

For example, we've started (in our little group) flying solo ships at a max of 36 points. Is it in the rules? No. But it's a nice baseline for a fast and fun game.

I gave you an example of a list that, for the same points, will liquify your list in about three turns. So by that comparison, I'd say your list is over costed for how it will perform. You'd have neither the firepower nor the HP to endure against a lot of other lists. Another list that will melt yours: 15 TIE fighters @ 12 points/each. Swarms that size are going to make a furball that prevents you from ever moving or getting an action. Also, it will bore you to sleep during the movement phase

If not Gonk, who then? I like the idea of a regenerating shield. That seems more keen to my survival than the offensive target lock upgrades or some stress benefits. Good defense is a good offense so on and so forth? Well, if Gonk won't work well defensively, who should I replace them with for Dengar and Boba on their separate lists?

What I really want is something that works best for Zuckuss. And Advanced Sensors just seems redundant. I trade an free action then and lose an action when I actually would use it? Missing the point there. I mean, the defensive properties on Sensor Jammer just seem to make the most sense defensively. And in a zerg rush list defense is what I need, right? I might just use Outlaw Tech instead--but everyone really really really likes the K4 droid--is the target lock really worth it?

Oh! Wired. Yes, The Mist Hunter has all these 1 and 3 speed turns that are red. I figure if I'm trying to arc dodge some TIEs I'll be needing those turns--and the inevitable stress that will come from them. But, guess that's a bad idea?

I get it. And I've always understood it. And that's not the point of this specific game. We just want to see if these hombres are as cool as their reputation stakes them out to be if they were fully loaded. That's just not gona change. Now with that out of the way...

Who would Bossk work best with? Zuckuss? Part of me just wants to shove him in the Mist Hunter on the principle of how much someone like Bossk would hate it. But, I'm flexible on putting him where he could be used best at. Though, it would be ironic if Zuckuss was the best candidate.

Also, I don't use the K4 Security Droid on any of my builds so far, once again, is it worth it? If I can be convinced, I'm willing to have a K4 on just about everyone if I have to. Again, where it's best needed.

So I get it, no stress on Zuckuss. We kill off Experimental Interface. What goes in it's place? As far as Expose goes? It sounds like suicide since Zuckuss only have 1 agility as is. Alternatives? Or am I missing the pro to losing my only green die.

And as for the HLC? I figure if something is going to go there it might as well be the HLC. Yes, Fett works best in tight Range 1 arcs, but, I figure sooner or later I'll have to shoot something at Range 2 or 3, and with the HLC I might as well be rolling four attack die instead of three. Right? Unless you have a better cannon suggestion (Something has to go there).

Lastly, what would you replace over Gunner? No, I don't plan on missing but it's nice to have in case. I'm open to suggestions.

Ah, I see. You're having trouble thinking outside the box without some guidance. Well, let me guide you. To frame it from the standard point of view on this game, try to imagine it from individual situations then develop it into a whole. Instead of Seeing three ships against six ships or whatnot, look at it at one ship against one to three or less ships at a time. Who knows, my friends may equally play just as radical with three or four heavily upgraded Aces of an iconic nature. Think of it as taking each individual ship, putting them in a familiar situation of a couple ships, then ask "what upgrades could I have equipped that I left empty to make this situation better."

What I really want is something that works best for Zuckuss. And Advanced Sensors just seems redundant. I trade an free action then and lose an action when I actually would use it? Missing the point there. I mean, the defensive properties on Sensor Jammer just seem to make the most sense defensively. And in a zerg rush list defense is what I need, right? I might just use Outlaw Tech instead--but everyone really really really likes the K4 droid--is the target lock really worth it?

Sure. The Stay on Target works best for 4LOM anyway. It's a really fun setup though, you may want to take a look at it. And in that setup, since your likely to stress yourself by using Stay on Target to change your maneuver, using Advanced Sensors gives you an action that turn, instead of losing it because you're stressed. That's the thought behind it. It can also be used to better position. You will end up in a different place if you are turning if you barrel roll before as opposed to after you move. Trust me, advanced sensors is very good.

As far as what works for Zuckuss, Predator/Dengar works great to help maximize your attacks (but you can't use Dengar so...) And to answer your question, yes, a target lock is important, especially when it's free. Roll all blanks? Target Lock, let's try it again. That's the power behind it. Really anytime you can get free actions, or turn a negative into a positive, it's a good thing in this game. So Outlaw Tech and K4 Security Droid are both very good. For Zuckuss, I would suggest one of those, or 4LOM can help during attacks by freezing a token, or Bossk can make the occasional miss work much better the following turn.

The reason I say Wired isn't great is because it only works on Focus results, and you have to be stressed. I use it on Zeta Leader, because I will almost always be stressed when attacking. And I have natural 3 dice to defend with, so it often works enough to be worth the one point investment. On Zuckuss, I feel you will get a lot more value out of another Elite upgrade. In comparison, Predator ALWAYS works, it doesn't matter if you are stressed or not, plus, Wired only has a 25% chance of working on your defensive roll, and then it just allows you to reroll it.

Finally in regards to Gonk, I'm not saying Gonk is bad, what I'm saying is that it is action dependent and your list is not action efficient enough to take advantage of it. Stick with Gunner if you want someone on there.

So now my anti-swarm/zerg/15 TIE list looks more like this. The new changes are in bold.

Anti-Swarm/Zerg

Firespray-31: · Boba Fett (39)

• Push The Limit (3)
• Assault Missiles (5)
• Heavy Laser Cannon (7)
• Proton Bombs (5)
• Engine Upgrade (4)
• · "Gonk" (2)
• · Slave I (0)
• Glitterstim (2)
• Extra Munitions (2)

JumpMaster 5000: · Dengar (33)

• Outmaneuver (3)
• Ion Torpedoes (2)
• Extra Munitions (2)
• Engine Upgrade (4)
• Recon Specialist (3)
• · Punishing One (12)
• Glitterstim (2)
• R4 Agromech (2)

G-1A Starfighter: · Zuckuss (38)

• Predator (3)
• Advanced Sensors (3)
• Engine Upgrade (4)
• K4 Security Droid (3)
• · Mist Hunter (0)
• Glitterstim (2)
• Tractor Beam (1)

I traded off for Predator over Stay on Target because I feel stress is already gonna give me enough problems as is. Remember, this is the anti-"I have an army" hulk setup here. The funniest thing here is, I can't find a decent enough defensive Elite Talent that will give me that survival against multiple ships--beyond, of course, an extremely offensive upgrade(Predator) for attacking. Thoughts?

Also, for this list, with all that talk about K4 could I maximize my results by using a K4 on all three ships? Even over Recon Specialist? And now I'm having second thoughts for "Gonk" on Slave I. I mean, I'd hate to see Fett go down at all and a shield regenerate action seems pretty great to me if I can fit the action in. Then again, I may not get them in fast enough before it's too late. Anyway, thoughts and opinions please.

Oh, and for as far as what these lists might go against. Nothing is set yet, but I do know the Rebel guy likes his B-Wings (2 So Far). And they prefer/use a Chewie flying Millennium Falcon with Luke as a crew member. And he likes using Poe with his T70 X-Wing (x2). He's also got some other ships, too: An Y-Wing, A-Wing, and the YT-2400. If I had to pick what might happen. it could be a combination of both the Millennium Falcon, Outrider, and two B-Wings, with maybe some others peppered in. I think he may concentrate on using the two large ships with some B-Wings flying as escorts.

Bump?


This fell to page 4, I feel it's worth a refresh. I still don't feel fully secure in these lists. Some more suggestions would help?

Well that's how this game works?

I should probably clarify that we're not the competitive tournament playing types. We generally just get drunk, play, and shout at each other. So, we alter rules like "100 Squad Point Total." Plus, there are no real plans for myself to play normally with anyone else. So maybe he'll do four Decimators? I don't see him doing that for the first time. I can definitely see him getting payback and shelling out the money for three more of them for the next game. But, maybe then I'll swap out some different upgrades then. What upgrades are those? I don't know. That's why I'm here. The question isn't how I think my list will work, but more like, what upgrades/tactics should I use if that happens.

While I totally understand WHAT you are trying to do, it isn't a good idea. You can have fun playing with your friends in any match, but the game itself (under these rules) plain and simple won't be fun. We you set a point total based on someone else's build 1 of 2 things will happen. Either the build is perfect and works so well it dominates or arbitrary fixtures will cause the freedom in the other build way too much strength and they crush. A far far better solution is to set a point total, any point total make it 200, 150, 3000 something before hand. Then build into that, BOTH of you. Having these point totals dictate the build makes the game on even footing and an overall more enjoyable experience for all.

The problem with your list is that you have only 27 health, devided over two 2 agility and one 1 agility ship in a 180~ point list. A well flown wolfpack of 100~ points would take you down - not a joke. I would seriously consider putting more bodies in this list.

So, can we then just concentrate on what works best for these three individual pilots and ships?

I know, crazy concept. But, I get it, you don't like it/disprove of how we'll play. Understood. But, if that's really so much of a problem that no one can offer any more build advice on how to gear these things, is it possible we can imagine or "make pretend" this is like any other game and look at each ship on an individual level of what upgrades work best with the ships's maneuverability/attack/durability/pilot and ship skills? Just work with me here. Yes, experimentation requires some crazy ideas. So try to think out of the box with me.

The most recent update is both of them like to use Push the Limit as their ace in the hole card. In fact, they didn't even realize the whole "you can't do the same action twice in one turn" rule only recently. I know my Imperial friend will run PTL on Vader with three actions per turn (I don't think he even knows about the daredevil and engine upgrade combo for Vader) But I think he uses engine upgrade at least. So, that's the kind of thought/skill level going through the my opponent's mind--I think I stand a chance. Yes, three actions on Vader. Even I think it's too much. So, with that in mind, would it be wise to swap out some upgrades to keep that Vader/(Whatever Rebel ship the other puts it's on) full of stress and kill that action economy for them? Maybe swap out the Heavy Laser Canon for the Flechette Cannon to destroy any action economy they have? Thoughts? Help? Anyone willing to work with me here?

Speaking to your first list:

I like Bossk on Dengar instead of Gonk. Bossk really likes you to be able to make a second attack in case your first attack misses. Since all three of these ships only have a single crew slot, you can't fit Bossk with Gunner, but you can put Bossk with Dengar, which could be interesting.

I might consider Ion Cannon on Boba Fett instead of Heavy Laser Cannon. The extra HLC damage is nice, but if your friends love Push the Limit, they'll be stressed a lot. If you can tag them with an ion token, they'll be sitting ducks during the next round and your ships can hopefully converge to destroy the sorry ace that got himself ionized.

I, personally, don't like Accuracy Corrector on Zuckuss. You're taking a ship with pretty heavy damage potential and cutting it down to a measly two hits. The only thing Accuracy Corrector has going for you is that if you roll hit-blank-blank-blank, you can cancel the dice, choose not to add any hits, and wiff your attack. Then you can use Gunner to attack a second time and hope for a better roll. I like Fire Control System might be a better choice and it still works with Gunner. You attack, you get a target lock from Fire Control System, you miss, you attack a second time, and on this second attack you have a Target Lock to use.

The other thing I'm totally confused on is the Experimental Interface on Zuckuss. You have no cards with an "Action" header that will trigger off of Experimental Interface. It's a wasted upgrade here.

Speaking to your second list:

I think I'd switch Elite upgrades on Fett and Dengar. Dengar can use Push the Limit better because there is more green on that dial (especially if you go for Unhinged Astromech instead of R4 Agromech). Meanwhile, Fett makes better use of Outmaneuver since it requires the opponent to be in arc and the Firespray has 2 firing arcs instead of just one.

/popcorn

I love zombie movies.

/popcorn off

Update: Wondrous feedback. All changes are in bold!

Ace Killer

Firespray-31: · Boba Fett (39)

• Veteran Instincts (1)
• Cluster Missiles (4)
• Ion Cannon (3)
• Cluster Mines (4)
• Engine Upgrade (4)
• Gunner (5)
• · Slave I (0)
• Glitterstim (2)
• Extra Munitions (2)

JumpMaster 5000: · Dengar (33)

• Push The Limit (3)
• Flechette Torpedoes (2)
• Extra Munitions (2)
• Engine Upgrade (4)
• · "Gonk" (2)
• · Punishing One (12)
• Glitterstim (2)
• Unhinged Astromech (1)

G-1A Starfighter: · Zuckuss (38)

• Veteran Instincts (1)
• Fire Control System (2)
• Engine Upgrade (4)
• Gunner (5)
• · Mist Hunter (0)
• Glitterstim (2)
• Tractor Beam (1)

Total: 168


A slimmer list, I like. I'm still on the fence on Bossk. With PTL I'm very likely to have a stress token on me during the attack phase. So, it could be also then likely that it will interfere with Bossk's ability. Where as Gonk's survivability benefits are less likely to fail/conflict with any other active abilities on the ship. Just a thought, I could use some more convincing in that area. But, it'd be an interesting prospect

Speaking on the cannon's, as I pry about their favorite ships I wonder if alternating cannons (depending on who's on the other side) might not be a bad idea. But with that Ion Cannon, controlling the target's next movements/actions as they struggle to shake my pursuit seems too good to improve on. Especially if he's silly enough to still put PTL on Vader. What's that? You received a stress token for an action? In the range of my cannon? Tsk tsk tsk. On the other hand, he keeps an Epsilon Leader F/O TIE nearby to pass that stress off. Which, can be dealt with first if necessary. I suppose I could then pitch this strategy: I use a Conner Net instead of Proton Bombs. Let's say this happens, it's face-to-face with Vader against Fett. The Ion Cannon strikes, next round the Sith floats. Round two, I drop a Conner Net right on his head, hit him for one damage, and then he still floats for another round--but now they face-off against Dengar coming at the poor SOB diagonally. If he attacks Dengar head-to-head, he risks the counterattack from Dengar's ability with no shield's left whatsoever. If he doesn't fire, I still fire an Ion Torpedo up Vader's tailpipe. Next round, if there's anything left, Dengar does that wondrous green left turn he's known for and pops right behind Vader--at this point, Fett should have came back around; in the likelihood that he was stupid enough to be left alone. Hopefully, Fett gets the killing blow on Vader. Actually, you could apply this to a few aces really. It just takes the right positioning to set it up. I should try to practice it if I can. Also, is the Flechette Cannon even worth including any kind of situational build? Not so much against Rebels--I found out he runs Keyan and Tycho as some of his go-to ships. But I'm curious of any other cannons, maybe even that HLC, could find it's way on to Slave I against a specific type of pilot. Or does it not get much better than the Ion Cannon.

Nice advice with Zuckuss, we'll make a hunter out of the little guy yet.

Anti-Swarm/Zerg

Firespray-31: · Boba Fett (39)

• Outmaneuver (3)
• Assault Missiles (5)
• Heavy Laser Cannon (7)
• Proton Bombs (5)
• Engine Upgrade (4)
• · "Gonk" (2)
• · Slave I (0)
• Glitterstim (2)
• Extra Munitions (2)

JumpMaster 5000: · Dengar (33)

• Push The Limit (3)
• Ion Torpedoes (2)
• Extra Munitions (2)
• Engine Upgrade (4)
• Recon Specialist (3)
• · Punishing One (12)
• Glitterstim (2)
• R4 Agromech (2)

G-1A Starfighter: · Zuckuss (38)

• Predator (3)
• Advanced Sensors (3)
• Engine Upgrade (4)
• K4 Security Droid (3)
• · Mist Hunter (0)
• Glitterstim (2)
• Tractor Beam (1)
  

Total: 179

I'm sold. How about ordinance check on the these two builds? I'm seriously pondering the Conner Net idea. And another area I could use some advice with--beyond the obvious sphincter clenching moments facing down some heavy guns, when is it best to use a Glitterstim? Is there an etiquette to it? Common misconceptions? How could I waste it? When not to use it, so on and so forth. Another small update, our Imperial player just got himself an Imperial Aces expansion pack--so I'm expecting Sootnir Fel in there somewhere.

Perhaps it's back in theaters again because it didn't get the attention it deserved at release. I mean, I think too many people complained about the idea of a zombie movie rather than actually watching it--don't you think?

Ion Cannon vs. Heavy Laser Cannon

My impression is that the fewer ships you have, the better the Heavy Laser Cannon is because you really need all the damage you can get. In that light, it might not be so bad, considering you only have 3 ships. On the other hand, your format encourages more upgrades and fewer ships, so you are less likely to be outnumbered. I think the Ion is mostly good when your opponent is taking lots of stress. If your opponent has low agility/high-hull ships like the Ghost or Decimator, Heavy Laser Cannon seems better to me.

Flechette Cannon is outclassed by Flechette Torpedoes. The torpedo version is a tad more expensive, but it always leaves a stress. But then, you typically only get one shot with it (barring Extra Munitions or Munitions Failsafe). The ability to hit repeatedly makes the cannon slightly more appealing, but the trouble is that stress works best when you can either stack a second one on there or get an ion token on there, too. Flechette Cannon just adds a single stress to an unstressed ship and can't add anymore than 1. That makes its use limited. A B-wing would probably hate it, but it hates Ion Cannons even more.

EDIT: Too many typos.

Ah, okay. So Large Ships would do well to have a HLC fired at them--got it. I assume we can lump large ships in all the same way including ships like the Falcon, Outrider, and Imperial Shuttle. Otherwise, that it's up to the Ion Cannon cause havoc against some Rebel Aces, like Poe. I suppose the Imps will hate it just as much.This list is coming along nicely.

On some side notes, and this is open to anyone, I'm looking for advice on how to gear these same three same ships up another way--but this time built for taking down a Huge ship like the Raider. Any general advice about fighting one of those would be spectacular. I don't think my friends own any of them own any so far, but I know it's something they do want. I'm definitely planning on fighting that Raider--he feels that if can't use the Death Star in our X-Wing game he'll settle for one of those.

Also, I'm still curious on the general consensus/do's and don'ts for Glitterstim. Thanks again!

Against a huge ship like the Raider, you usually want as many guns firing at it as you can. If they don't reinforce (one of their actions), then two 2-dice attacks deal as much damage as one 4-dice attack because they have no agility. Granted, spamming lots of low-cost ships does have the tendency to make huge ships less fun.

As for Glitterstim, it's a good upgrade. Part of the reason it is good is because even though it's situational, so are all the illicit slots, so equipping it doesn't mean you have to sacrifice something like Predator or a crew. The two most common uses for Glitterstim (in my opinion) are 1) to save it in case you get surrounded by enemy ships who can all shoot you that round, or 2) when you're trying to wipe something off the board quickly (because you can target lock and then spend the Glitterstim to get modify your focus results). Often these go hand-in-hand. For example, I ran a Boba-Bossk list where Fett get up close during the first round of shooting and spends Glitterstim at range 1 of the enemy ships. He target locks or evades as his action, depending on how many enemies are at range 1. Now he gets 4 dice with TL + focus or he can reroll dice with his ability while modifying focus results with Glitterstim. When the enemy fires back, Boba gets rerolls and the focus effect. If he evaded, he has that going for him as well. Hopefully between him and Bossk, they can wipe a ship off the table in the first round of combat. So Boba used Glitterstim as a sort of alpha strike and as a defense against many enemy attacks.

I feel my Ace Killer list has almost enough total squad points to match one fully loaded fat Raider. So, I could start from there. Beyond using as many guns as you cant--I suppose three on one is as much as I could afford with my limits--at least if I get them right behind the aft of the Raider and put all three right on its trail then it's all over. Right? I think? I feel overloading Zuckuss as a crazy close rail cannon could be fun too--and put to use that extra dice with a total of five attack dice? With Rage? And a Glitterstim? Wow-wa-we wa.. And I suppose since the Raider is capped at pilot skill four, then I don't really need Veteran Instincts anymore on any of them. Unless, somehow it's a Raider plus another Ace or so on. But, my next question would be about using those Ion tokens against a Huge ship. Is it worth it? Maybe? The Raider losing all that energy might be effective? Or is it better to strike with higher and flashier numbers? The Ion could provide some cover/insurance and survivability--especially when going head on. Plus, the Raider couldn't use an Ionization Reactor with all that constant Ion draining the resources. And a well placed Ion Pulse at Range 1 can mess with my plans of staying on that Raider's fat butt. Anyway, it's just a thought about what kind of ordinance (torpedoes, missiles, bombs, etc..) to carry on those three. There's also something that still troubles me something fierce the more I think about it--how often do Huge ships run over other smaller ships? If one of my team gets road-killed--that's no bueno. A Glitterstim might save me from getting vaporized in a frontal assault, but it won't stop that big mama' from running me over.

Also, small addition to my Glitterstim question--how many firing arcs are too many? Two? Three? What about with a swarm?I feel three should be the minimum on when to press the 'oh %#!@~" button and pop a stim. Are there any specific Aces or Ace Combos I should look out for when surrounded? More specifically, if I'm playing chicken with an Ace and I don't plan on blinking--is Glitterstim a must? What about any specific Large Ship Aces--I'm really concerned about that Outrider with the Heavy Laser Cannon. It could make tailgating a problem.

Thanks for the advice again! I may post a Huge Ship variant soon depending on the Ion feedback.

Greetings!

I'm sorry for necro-threading this, but, it's been a awhile since my last post--still no reply. But who's counting! Because I’ve got more follow up questions. Once again, for those of you just tuning in, this is a special “Cinematic” kinda custom game where we all crank up the squad limit total in favor for a game centered around three to four fat Aces for fun. (Could be around a 175/170 limit so far)

So here's the tl;dr

“I've read some stuff, so I've changed my list again! Can I get some more feedback? Ty!”

Ace Killer (Variant)

Firespray-31: · Boba Fett (39)

• Veteran Instincts (1)
• Cluster Missiles (4)
• Ion Cannon (3)
• Cluster Mines (4)
• Engine Upgrade (4)
• Gunner (5)
• · Slave I (0)
• Glitterstim (2)
• Extra Munitions (2)
  
  Total: 64

JumpMaster 5000: · Dengar (33)

• Push The Limit (3)
• Plasma Torpedoes/Proton Torpedoes (3/4)
• Extra Munitions (2)
• Engine Upgrade (4)
• · "Gonk" (2)
• · Punishing One (12)
• Glitterstim (2)
• Unhinged Astromech (1)
  
  Total: 62/63

G-1A Starfighter: · Zuckuss (28)

• Veteran Instincts (1)
• Electronic Baffle (1)
• Stygian Particle Accelerator (2)
• · 4-LOM (1)
• · Mist Hunter (0)
• · Cloaking Device (2)
• Tractor Beam (1)
  
  Total: 36
  

Squad Total: 168/169


Now, I've gone and made me some alterations to my previous Ace Killer list. So, here's the why with all the what.

I feel there’s a potentially dangerous underestimation of what my Mist Hunter is capable of. So I'm following the suggested design apparent throughout the Mist Hunter expansion and made some modifications. In short, I’ve reunited the power couple (Zuckuss and 4-LOM) and swapped out Glitterstim for a Cloaking Device. And here’s why.

4-LOM? Why not, I’m beginning to feel Gunner just becomes the offensive default crew upgrade. There's nothing wrong with attack insurance when you wiff, but, Zuckuss’ pilot ability finally becomes slightly more practical with 4-LOM in the crew slot. That extra attack die on offensive rolls seems more appealing when I can cancel out their tokens. And then I toss off that Ion token (if I really needed too) with Electronic Baffle. So, it theoretically seems like an upgrade from Gunner’s “miss insurance.” The good news about that is Zuckuss will have the lowest pilot skill out of the three and will always attack last. There might not even be any tokens left on the target for 4-LOM to cancel out. So, I don’t see EB taking too much health or being abused too often. It might sustain just as good, if not better, than Gunner.

And the Cloaking Device? Because the Mist Hunter seems like the most fragile on our three man squadron. Glitterstim is awesome and will stay on my two large ships. Unfortunately, Mist Hunter’s one agility benefits from Glitterstim only once a game. But the Cloaking Device guarantees me at least one round's worth of utility (unless my luck runs out). And then that one agility becomes three with a cloaking token. Then Zuckuss gains a free evade token from the Stygium Particle Accelerator. So one agility suddenly becomes three with an evade token. And, if the bantha fodder hits the fan again and the Cloaking Device hasn’t given out, I can use it again whereas Glitterstim would still be gone. Not to mention decloaking action's repositioning benefits.

In review, suddenly this S&V B-Wing has morphed into something with a bit more durability while rolling five attack dice at range one. Thoughts? Am I crazy? Will this work? Should I replace my old list with this new idea? Should I just use the old list? Thoughts? Bueller?

Oh! And the torpedoes! Flechette Torpedoes seems nice, but for aces I’ve decided Dengar should go for a faction appropriate armament. Basically, when I’m fighting shielded Rebels then I use Plasma Torpedoes to soften them up (Dengar fires first with the highest Pilot Skill). Or, I swap those out for Proton Torpedoes for shieldless and critically vulnerable Imperials. And for mixed squadrons, I just have Dengar carry whichever ordinance hurts their toughest target the best.

Did someone say Tail Gunner for Boba Fett? Sorry--I panicked--and didn’t know how to transition to my “hey, I got an idea that everyone else probably already thought about/test flown” question. But, it's a recent release so it may or may not be why I'm back here again. Or I could be just really busy/took a break. Still actually haven't had a match yet. Life stuff, right? But my armory has increased immensely. So, I'm still very flexible with altering these squads. Anywho, is it too early to discuss Tail Gunner for S&V Boba Fett? I say strike while the iron is hot. So why not talk about it. Is it worth switching Gunner out Tail Gunner? Personally for a while I've been thinking of switching Gunner for a K4 Security Droid. It seems to line up well with Fett's one-two-three combo. Or the ion cannon-to-range one auxiliary arc-to-face full of cluster mines combo. But Tail Gunner seems to line up so well if I just keep the target lock from the rounds before, so does it compete just as well as a K4 Security Droid? Especially with all the lack of Imperial Firesprays that I'll be seeing. And I still don't think my Empire guy even has a Decimator yet, but I wouldn't put a TIE/SF past him--it could easily end up there around Christmas. But I can understand if no one here has tried this yet, since my last question about Epic play and offensive large ships like the Raiders didn't really get any attention either. I imagine there's not a lot of epic games going about.

Speaking of the Imperial Raiders, I’m still curious about what’s the best/optimal Anti-Huge-Ship bomb upgrade card for these types of squad lists. And, again, that nagging question of ‘how often are my aces squished to death by the big bad huge ship’ question. I promise, that's the last “oh, one more thing”... for this post.

Definitely not the last time for this for this thread. I'm having too much fun setting this game up. I guess there was more to that first tl;dr than I thought. More like 'squad list change, tail gunner for S&V Fett, and Epic ship bombs and squishy-ness' questions. Pat yourself on the back for reading all that. Good feedback is always appreciated!

I'm all for custom point totals, so long as those totals are decided on beforehand. Honestly, against a list like this, I'm just going to throw A-Wings at it and chuckle as I drink my mini keg Heineken. In all likelihood, we would each drop 1 ship per round, but with 8 A-Wings vs 2 Large ships and a small ship, that attrition does not last long. You have very expensive ships that honestly aren't worth their points.

Let me ask this, what are the requirements for your opponents builds? Is everyone limited to 3 total ships? Must they be Aces? Must it be 2 Large ships and 1 Small ship? This could help even the odds. Otherwise, I fear you will find these 3 pilots will fall to many of the 100 point builds currently available.

I am not trying to tell you not to do it. I'm trying to make sure you enter an even playing field. There has to be set limits or somebody will end up with a severe advantage.

How is the point total being set?

Because if you're setting the point total for the game by filling every slot on all of your ships, then telling your opponents how many points they have to use, you're doing yourself a disservice here by spending this many points. As your opponent, I now have 175 points to spend effectively versus your inefficient 175 points.

I feel like I could bloat these ships to be dripping with good upgrades for less than 150 points.

If you're supposed to be playing movie characters and you're allowed to have 3-4 inside a 175 point total, I'd trim these ones down some and then toss IG-88B or Bossk in here someplace.

I feel like I could bloat these ships to be dripping with good upgrades for less than 150 points.

I agree. I built these ships out respectably for about 130. Still not terribly competitive, but flyable.

What you are missing here, what people are trying to tell you is that by not having a points limit we can't say this is how to best create efficacy as you have 0 restrictions other than slot choices. This is a Rock-Paper-Scissors game, one list will smash one other list but another will smash that list. In my opinion HLC is a waste on Boba, he cant use his pilot ability with it, something like AutoBlaster cannon is better.