Some locations on Galactica and Colonial One are never used in our games, since they are so frakkin' useless in our eyes. These are especially the Communications and the Administration. Normally, you have too many civilian ships out there to effectively use communications, and activating vipers or the Gun Turrets on Pegasus is almost always the better way to secure the ships then simply moving them around. Dee may be an exception here, of course. And not to mention Administration! It is the most useless location ever invented. If your president's a cylon, you have to brig/execute him, and else it makes no sense to try to become president via the Administration.

I concede that a cylon player may use these locations to the damage of the fleet, but for the humans these locations are almost never used. It gets even worse on New Caprica: the Resistance HQ is ok if you need to execute someone of doubtful loyalty, but else you need to rush to the shipyard immediately to secure the ships. The Colonial One and Breeder's Canyon are never used since they simply don't help. The time is too short for the humans since all but seven cards bear the jump icon and the ships have to be rescued, so the players will simply Executive Order each other.

Have you made similar experiences?

Command: this pretty much never gets used unless there are few players and the pilot turns out to be a cylon.

Weapons control: I've only ever seen this use when there was a basestar on the board but no other cylon ships, so someone had the free time to take pot shots.

Communications: This gets used a lot. You can force the movement of enemy raiders by moving ships around, and for some reason the Pegasus was avoided the only time we've used the expansion. However, if the raiders are in the same space as the civvies, Communications is much better than risking blowing them up.

Administration: both times this has been used, it was because the one trying to steal the presidency was a cylon. However, just brigging a cylon isn't enough to strip the powers of the presidency away from them, so you'll want to either execute them or also use Administration to keep them from picking the painful choices on crisis cards. Administration has the benefit of putting the presidency wherever you want it, and is a good way for loyal humans to get rid of their accumulated treachery.

My groups have seen Administration get at least some play, because when someone plays Roslin her first action is often to XO someone to come and take the presidency away from her because she's the worst candidate for the job.

I've also seen human Zarek to take the Presidency away from an obviously cylon President.

I've seen Comms get used when the board is very full of ships, in order to keep the cylons moving in the right direction or protect the civvies.

The location I've seen used the least, by far, is the Armory, as usually we just have the President destroy any boarding parties with Brutal Force.

Stefan said:

Certainly not.

Communications is often the easiest, most effective way to buy your civvies some time until the jump. In our games, it is used far more often than Weapons Control.

You can brig a Cylon, but that doesn't take the Presidency from them. Hence the need for Administration. I'll admit, it's less useful in the expansion.

All the locations seem to have their benefits. On Galactica, hot ones for our group are the Research Lab and Command. Command is particularly powerful, as parking a person there can get two 'shots', and an executive order could get four (which is equivalent to a maximum firepower).

I think the only location we really spurn is the Engine Room.

Our group never uses the research lab. Seems a waste of a turn and better to XO somebody...or just about anything. It is usually a last resort type thing. After that the Armoury is never used. Brutal force is just too easy to get rid of them, cylons never even bother with them since its nearly unfair how easy it is to destroy them. With the introduction of the pegasus we never bother with the galactica guns now. Yeah, Galactica is looking a bit empty these days.

Enginge Room rocks if you need to jump quickly. It is always nice to gain a jump icon on an enemy attack ^^

Communications is contextual based on how close you are to jumping. It works thematically, as your pulling back to retreat because you know the autojump or FTL will kick in soon.

Administration is an afterthought space in my opinions...

IE - The President has been brigged, and we know she's a Cylon, but maybe theirs a second activated causing Havok on Cylon locations. This could be a nasty combo if the Brigged Cylon isn't interested in revealing yet. I'm sure theirs other situations where this space is a response vs. a primary mode of progressing towards victory.

I can't believe that you think that Roslyn is the worst canidate for President. The Prez often has to discard cards, so ditching 2 to use the President's Office isn't that big a deal. And even just using the card to draw a card is a decent action. Without the President title, all Roslyn can do is Consoidate Power or EO, or else she is ditching cards to do it. One wonders why a person would bother with Roslyn at all, if all they are doing is giving other people extra turns and scouting the Crisis Deck.

JerusalemJones said:

We typically don't bother with Roslin. Any other president can sit in the office and constantly utilize the power of the quorum (preferably through XOs). Since one of the biggest advantages of being president is the quorum, having your options with it so greatly hindered kinda sucks. I like Roslin's constant ability, and her OPG can save the day, but as a president she's definitely one of the worst candidates. the only thing that keeps her from being the absolute worst IMO is that some characters are needed elsewhere (like Starbuck and Galen).

We see Roslyn get played alot. For starters, all of the other Political Leaders can be bad if they are cylons, and the ability to trigger the President's Office as a cylon is bad. The Quorum deck is powerful in one game, I was Baltar with both Cylon cards. I used an EO to brig, then execute the pilot I knew was human. So Roslyn's weakness makes her less suspicious. Her ability to look at two and bury one is great one of the best in the game, in my opinion and to neuter her by taking away the President title just seems pointless.

JerusalemJones said:

This doesn't make sense to me.

1) If the President has to discard a lot of skill cards anyway (and I assume you're talking about doing to resolve a crisis card without losing resources), how is it good that she also has to discard yet more cards to be able to be a good President? If she's a cylon, it's good, because that way she'll never have any skill cards to contribute to checks and has a somewhat believable reason for that, but I'm assuming we're talking about human strategies here.

2) If using the President card action to draw a quorum card is good, why is being able to draw and play quorum cards with twice as much efficiency not twice as good?

3) Without the President title, Roslin can Consolidate Power, XO other players, and Launch Scouts (with Tactics cards drawn off of CPs). If a player is interested having a wider range of actions available to him, he shouldn't play Roslin.

4) Because Roslin's at-will power is one of the best in the game.

JerusalemJones said:

1) How does Roslin's weakness make her look less suspicious? I'm always more suspicious of a President who isn't doing his utmost to draw and play as many quorum cards as possible, which you seem to be saying is something only a cylon would do, unless I'm misunderstanding you.

2) How does Roslin not being President neuter her at-will ability? The two aren't linked in any way.

Kushiel said:

It's not that having to discard is a good thing, but the "President Discards" crises simply offset the cost to Roslin of using the President's Office. If she empties her hand on or shortly after her turn, then those crisis options can be selected with impunity until her next draw. (Not that she should be doing this all the time or anything; it's just that, on average, it's better for the president to have an empty hand during a crisis than, say, a pilot or support person, and this fact makes her disadvantage less terrible.)

Having her Consolidate Power can be useful in various circumstances, but CPing for Tactics so she can Scout seems like a waste of actions (especially for her, of all people). Which brings us back to the conclusion that ex-president Roslin is at her best when she only ever XOs and chooses crisis cards, and that this is not an improvement over leaving her in office.

I think Rosyln makes a great President...probably not the best President, due to her disadvantage, but it doesn't handicap her so much that I would give up an action to give up the Presidency to someone who could be a cylon.

The card issue isn't a big deal because of what's been said before, as President, it's good to find uses for your cards ASAP, because you never know when a crisis is going to drain them from you.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that Rosyln makes a great mechanic in a pinch. She can easily get Repair cards with consolidate power and her handicap does not affect repair.

She's actually one of my favorite characters.

I guess I just can't understand how "she might be forced to throw cards away" is validation for "she forces herself to throw cards away." For example:

Her turn: she draws 5 cards and plays one (preferably an XO). Her crisis forces her to discard her cards. She is no longer a valid target for the "XO the president in the quorum" maneuver.

Random other president's turn: they draw five cards and play one (preferably an XO). Their crisis forces them to discard their cards. They can still be a powerful president.

Yes, her ability is powerful. I don't think anyone is disputing that. It's the usefulness of her as president which I just can't see the logic of, when comparing her to any other political figure (and most other non-pilots).

James McMurray said:

Nobody said validation. All we're saying is her drawback isn't as bad as you make it out to be because the President usually has a hard time holding onto their cards anyway. Is she the best at being President? No, nobody said that she was. However, her drawback doesn't make her so terrible that I would advocate spending an action and a bunch of cards to give the title to someone else who could well be a Cylon.

Gaius Frakkin Baltar said:

As James McMurray already said: If she can't hold onto her cards as a result of being president, she can't be as effective a president as any other character in the game, because she won't have the skill cards she needs to activate the president's quarters when she's XO'd. That's not any issue any other character has, so the argument that the president never has any skill cards in hand only supports the position that Roslin is the worst candidate for president.

Kushiel said:

Worse than Apollo? He has to discard randomly for all those food and water shortages, and he can't take advantage of his alert ability when he's on Colonial One. On top of that, he's the first character in line after the political leaders.

Gaius Frakkin Baltar said:

Yep, worse than Apollo.

He has to discard randomly for shortages, sure. He will still have more skill cards in hand after doing so than Roslin would, though, and given the random nature of crises (ie, you don't know in advance which colors you'll need to pass the next skill check), that's mostly a wash with her skill card shortages.

He can't use his at-will special while on Colonial One, but if he's there at all, it's to camp out on the President's Office. If he's worried about getting into a viper, he shouldn't be on Colonial One in the first place.

Not sure what your third point has to do with anything, sorry.

We have several people fight over playing Roslin, so in 11 games there hasn't been a single game that didn't have a Roslin in play.

We also often use Communication (especially if Dee is playing) and the Engine Room.

Also, Administration has been used more than a few times (never by Cylon revealed or unrevealed) but rather to "fix" the President titlle after a crisis card forced a change away from Roslin president.

We rarely ever use Research Lab (only gets played when no players have blue for repair.)

We have never used Main Batteries and CIC (from Pegasus ship) and never will.

We have never used Press Room and likley never will.

risner said:

Why not?

CIC is only beneficial if you are cylon (unrevealed) and want to damage the fleet, so I guess "never will" is strong. But even so, it seems more fruitful to do other stuff to harm the fleet.

Main Batteries just seems so limiting.

Why do you think they are critical?

I wouldn't say they're critical, but to say they'll never be used or are only good for cylons seems a bit myopic. The main batteries are great as long as there are no good guys in the space sector you're targeting or you've got a Strategic Planning and no vipers in the spot. CIC is better at damaging a basestar than Galactica, though I wouldn't want to activate it without a Strategic Planning or Calculations handy (or as Kat).

risner said:

Not to be a jerk, but has it occurred to you that the above might very well be reasons that the humans in your group don't win (as you mentioned in another thread)? If nothing else, if your current strategies involving the list above aren't working, it's worth trying something different to see if that helps.