Wes Janson. Ok now I know the T-65 is weak and would need some help, but consider, flown at range 3, since Wes moves last he might well be out of range for the alpha strike target lock, and if he isn't his ability cancels one of those valuable early game shots, and it being Wes will hopefully hit. If you're flying some solid firepower or you own alpha strike, you might well take the target before it ever gets to use that ordnance which is a huge loss. With a focus and range Wes will likely survive that first strike as well. It's not perfect I know, but I think the is real potential for even a pilot skill 8 Wes against these guys. Thoughts?

I'd also suggest a stressbot on Wes or one of his wingmen to make the next pass even more difficult for the U-boat

I was thinking about a u-boat counter for a while, but I have yet to face one. Out of the "new" stuff only the TAP has given me a headache out of the ships, but the upgrades to ordnance has been a real pain. I was thinking along these lines:

The fact that Wes has been flown for a while now as exactly that U-Boat counter is proof that your idea really works I think Wes has actually replaced Wedge as most flown T-65 after Biggs recently

In my experience, he either just gets merced by the other two or by crappy pwts

Was thinking about it, but imagine 2 torp shots at your Wes, he probably will be taken down. 5hp (6 with Integrated) vs 2x 4 attack? Not great odds to survive. Another thing stressbot looks interesting, problem is, you can stress it 2x yes, but then U-Boats go behind stressbot and stressbot will be useless for most part. Or stressbot will be taken down with torps.

It can work of course, but not that great either

...unless you can do the approach to not be in firing range of all 3 U-boats. If he can strip just one a turn without getting creamed, he's good.

Wes + Stresshog look decent for shutting down a couple of Scouts. Might want to consider upgrading the Stresshog to a Grey Squadron pilot though so it shoots before the Scouts. Otherwise there is a very real risk the PS2 version might not get to fire at all.

The other thing to remember against Scouts is that you will have a lot of enemy hull to chew through and even after the Torps are gone, you may need to consider how you will survive the persistent plinking of the PWTs. I would consider dropping Thermal Detonators on the Y-wing and getting Poe Autothrusters instead of IA. That important change means he is always guaranteed to get at least one dodge result at R3 or when out of arc. If you leave a ship with the Boost action in arc at Range 2, that is your look-out.

This will give Poe much more longevity as there is a very real chance he can survive 2 torpedo hits and autothrusters will make him far more resilient to PWTs. That means he is more likely to survive through the end game where it becomes a battle of attrition.

Having said all that, I think that the key to facing U-boats really is going to be in how you fly. If you are careful about the Rule of 11, you should be able to go from out of range into Range 1 in a single turn, especially with ships like Poe who can rely on a boost.

Was thinking about it, but imagine 2 torp shots at your Wes, he probably will be taken down. 5hp (6 with Integrated) vs 2x 4 attack? Not great odds to survive.

Go for a cheap Wes with R4-D6 (or something, the "only 2 hits" 1 point droid). They have to spend 3 plasma torps to get rid of him unless they roll a crit. And like Heychadwick said, don't get in the arcs of all 3 U-boats.

Was thinking about it, but imagine 2 torp shots at your Wes, he probably will be taken down. 5hp (6 with Integrated) vs 2x 4 attack? Not great odds to survive. Another thing stressbot looks interesting, problem is, you can stress it 2x yes, but then U-Boats go behind stressbot and stressbot will be useless for most part. Or stressbot will be taken down with torps.

It can work of course, but not that great either

I had thought of this but here's the thing, you need a target lock to hit Wes, and the way you'd play this due to high PS you either want Wes too far back so they can't lock, or too close to fire. You need to control that alpha strike, and yeah the next turn you are out of luck but presumably one jump master is dead or limping, so janson cancels one lock, his friends pick off the limping one, or focus fire the new target and Wes takes one torpedo, he might die he might live, but regardless he has been a huge nuisance and greatly delayed the alpha strike that needed to happen in the first exchange.

I discovered Imperial Demolition Experts.

Vader + Clusters, Inquisitor + Clusters, Jonus + VI + Homers.

Of course add tons of other upgrades to your liking. I'm still experimenting.

It is almost guaranteed to blow up a scout on the first pass unless you bump or the scouts' green dice are amazing.

It is good against other popular lists, in some cases because ships like the Ghost really don't enjoy 16-dice alpha strikes and in some cases because I think people simply don't know how to play against aces with alpha strike. Recently I had a fun experience where this smug opponent took out his Decimator/vader/gunner combo going "ah, I took this especially to kill aces, it's my lucky day." And then it took 14 damage before it could fire.

Don't expect Jonus to live long, but it doesn't really matter. And the games end up being pretty quick, too.

Can't the Rebels do something similar?

Go for a cheap Wes with R4-D6 (or something, the "only 2 hits" 1 point droid). They have to spend 3 plasma torps to get rid of him unless they roll a crit. And like Heychadwick said, don't get in the arcs of all 3 U-boats.

You just made that little droid very useful! Integrated Astromech for a little more hp and there you go, 30 pts for an anti-alpha strike ship that still has high ps and attack die, slap on adaptability as a poor mans VI and you get even more priority.

easy nerf no EPT for PS3!!!!

easy nerf no EPT for PS3!!!!

Oh, it's not that bad.

I AM SO DUMB! Expert Handling, Wes can roll away one lock and shoot away another, one lock at best if you focus fire Wes, if not yeah another ship is getting shot but if Wes makes it to late game the jumpamasters are finished because they will never lock him, or focus, so there's that, and you are all set to protect the squad while preventing shots.

Shhhhh.... No one needs to know Wes Janson exists... Except me...

Shhhhhh.....

Can't the Rebels do something similar?

Sorta. Combining Esege and Dutch with some torpedoes of their own gives you are pretty potent Alpha strike of your own at PS6 with plenty of dice mods. It also leaves enough room for a decent ace (I would probably go for Psycho-Tycho or just stick to Wes). Between the 3 of them, you have a decent chance to kill a U-boat before it fires.

You could add a third shooty ship but I would worry it would compromise the list too much against Palp Aces who would just eat the torps with the palp mobile and cut the bombers apart.

A-wings are another really strong ship against U-boats. They are fast and have both Boost and Barrel Roll meaning they have lots of options to get out of arc. You can either run them with Chaardan refit and good EPTs like Push the Limit or load them up with Ordnance of your own.

I AM SO DUMB! Expert Handling, Wes can roll away one lock and shoot away another

Shhhhh.... No one needs to know Wes Janson exists... Except me...

Shhhhhh.....

Actually I love running action economy damage, the Transport was my first expansion along with a basic X-Wing so I learned to play with 3 X's against a lot of scum and mini swarms. I have always found that having optimal action economy while denying it is a very powerful way to go. Not perfect but very strong.

I AM SO DUMB! Expert Handling, Wes can roll away one lock and shoot away another

Trouble is that U-boats normally use Deadeye to fire meaning that shaking TLs won't help against them. Wes specifically allows you to remove any token from the target (an ability I have not seen replicated elsewhere).

Darn that little a-wing trick makes them a lot harder to bring down... Having a barrel roll isn't bad to dodge at least one arc though...

What about an unorthodox approach, splitting fire, let Wes hit one and let it go, then have everyone else focus fire the other, forcing it (hopefully) to spend the token to stay alive, or at least crippling it.

Wes is great against a lot of ships that are in the current meta

Contracted Scouts

Vader (ATC)

Omega Leader (Target Lock)

VCXs with Hera, Han, FCS (no more FCS)

And stripping those evade tokens off Soontirs and the upcoming Defenders is invaluable.

The problem is figuring out teammates that can cover Wes' weaknesses.

[quote name="zerotc" post="2214070" timestamp="1463066310"

The problem is figuring out teammates that can cover Wes' weaknesses.

Hmm what about a pair of refit greens with draw their fire?

Dont have to worry about Wes dying in opening round if Biggs is his wingmate. Wes and Biggs + third ship of your choosing with lots of firepower. There are posts around about having Farlander as third said ship. Squad has done good recently in Fresno regionals making top 8

http://lists.starwarsclubhouse.com/get_tourney_details?tourney_id=1625

The problem is if you build a list just to Counter U-Boats you expose yourself vs Aces for example. It's good that single list cant be auto win

But if you think about a list to counter u-boats, you need to think of list to beat other matchups too.