I think that was my problem I had a must include mentality

Your problem is trying to use 2. They will be running into eachother all day.

Footnote- Tirion cant fly.

So long as I use B-Wings, I'll always have Independence in my list. I can see the GR-75s taking the carrier load in Y-Wing or H6 bombing lists (the difference between speed 2 and 3 is enormous), especially in Y-Wing spam. Still the MC80 has a place in rebels lists because of the awesome titles. I do agree with concern to the VSD. It's still cheap enough that it remains the most cost efficient combination of firepower and carrier, but it is no longer the cheapest pure carrier. I still think VSD carriers could be good because of the extra hull and firepower, but I'm no longer certain of their role. This is coming from a guy that argued for them in wave 2.

Back to the main point, how do you incorporate Flotillas? Slicer tools and pocket carrier are the two most obvious. But what about activation advantage?

First thing to remember is that ships take up area and there's only so many you can pack into one area. This creates effects like fronts, layers(reserves), and "the tip of the spear". A force that is uniformly strong wants all their ships engaging at once. Say the AFM2 line or the lesser used VSD line. The tactics required mean all ships of the fleet are meant to engage all at once and the combined firepower outmatches the opponent.

The alternative is the tip of the spear. Here there is one or two ships that outclass most others and the goal is to get the spear matched up with a beatable subsection of the opponent. This is epitomized in Armada by the Demolisher lists. The Demolisher desperately wants the back to back activations and when it gets them can take down larger targets.

The use of flotillas then suggest "tip of the spear" type engagement fleets. The activation and deployment advantages they create are better than (or need to be better than) the raw gun power of the opponent. The VSDs are point for point some of the best ships around. But they don't get used as much because people have trouble getting them on target to make their points effective. But flotillas aren't point effective for guns. It comes as no surprise that people may have trouble using them in pure list building. The lists are BOUND to look anemic because it's hard to appreciate the ships impact in a vacuum.

Instead, the way to build flotilla lists starts with imagining a typical engagement. Particularly, what ship or two is the tip of the spear and how do you get those ships to an ideal encounter with the enemy (and have to do this vs common enemy types). Then you add ships until that engagement is realized.

Say you commonly face 5 activation Demolisher. Start with the ship you want to take on as your tip, say an MC30, and realize you need five activations yourself (or an absurd initiative bid). So write down the MC30, then "purchase" 4 GR-75s. Then continue building the list by intelligently buying squadrons, upgrades, and replacing GR-75s with better ships. But only do so with the full battle in mind. No point in replacing the GR-75 with a Neb if that ship is unlikely to see considerable action. Instead, what can be done to improve the lead MC30 and its immediate contingent of the tip of the spear.

This seems like pretty good advice for list-building in general, not just for flotillas. With this insight, the reason I had issues with my fleet at yesterday's regional comes down to the fact that I was confused as to what was the tip of my spear, and therefore how I should support it. So this helps me to make a lot more sense of how to get more from my fleet.

Thanks!

So long as I use B-Wings, I'll always have Independence in my list. I can see the GR-75s taking the carrier load in Y-Wing or H6 bombing lists (the difference between speed 2 and 3 is enormous), especially in Y-Wing spam. Still the MC80 has a place in rebels lists because of the awesome titles. I do agree with concern to the VSD. It's still cheap enough that it remains the most cost efficient combination of firepower and carrier, but it is no longer the cheapest pure carrier. I still think VSD carriers could be good because of the extra hull and firepower, but I'm no longer certain of their role. This is coming from a guy that argued for them in wave 2.

I realised this morning that Y-wing Ruthless Strategist spam is back on the table. Always struggled to get the activations needed to make it work, but now.......