Yup, another list to mess about with the options that Imperial Veterans will bring. Palp-Aces is a well-established staple of the meta and I am trying to decide if Defenders have anything to offer to that. So here is my list.

34 Glaive Squadron Pilot (34)

Juke (2)

/x7 Title (-2)

34 Glaive Squadron Pilot (34)

Juke (2)

/x7 Title (-2)

32 Omicron Group Pilot (21)

Palpatine (8)

Reinforced Deflectors (3)

It is a fairly simple list. The Glaives do their best to keep the speed up and with both an Evade and Focus, they should be pretty tanky while Juke will help to force the damage through in return. Palpatine is on-hand to help out with whiffed defense rolls if necessary.

RD is on the shuttle to help deal with Ordnance. Even triple U-boats will not bring it down in one volley and it will probably take most of a second to finish off. With their ordnance spent, they will struggle against the Defenders. Juke will also hit them hard as they will not want to spend their Focus tokens on defense as that will break their cycle with their R4s.

Against TLT-spam, 3 greens + Focus + Evade + Palp against each shot means the Defenders will take a while to whittle down while they and the shuttle pummel the turret carriers. Rebel Regen is a tough match but it will just be a case of trying to concentrate on one ship at a time and overload it with damage before it can regen.

Other Palp-Aces might be a tough match-up but Juke will help a bit here against the likes of Soontir.

I could replace one Glaive with Ryad for green K-turning shenanigans.

Too bad its 101 points!

Defenders don't really need Palp.

Run Carnor Jax instead (as a flanker). with Push the limit + autothrusters, you're at 31 points (99 total) and his ability synergizes nicely with the Juking defenders.

Too bad its 101 points!

D'oh! I've modified the original post to drop Tactical Jammer.

Run Carnor Jax instead (as a flanker). with Push the limit + autothrusters, you're at 31 points (99 total) and his ability synergizes nicely with the Juking defenders.

True, a very nice combo.

Concur with ditching the Palpshuttle. The Defenders, without any ability to reposition and lacking autothrusters aren't great late game ships -- you need something to fill that role and help you get more arc coverage. Carnor Jax is great for his ability & Juke combo. Any Ace would likely work, though. Or a third Defender, for some obscene k-turn arc coverage, which will be needed when going against enemy aces.

Concur with ditching the Palpshuttle. The Defenders, without any ability to reposition and lacking autothrusters aren't great late game ships -- you need something to fill that role and help you get more arc coverage. Carnor Jax is great for his ability & Juke combo. Any Ace would likely work, though. Or a third Defender, for some obscene k-turn arc coverage, which will be needed when going against enemy aces.

Actually, Defenders ARE great late-game ships. There are some matchups they may not be able to win 1v1, but not many. With the TIE/d title, you can 'bully' your opponent (and with ion cannon, they must be arc-dodgers or they just lose). With x-7 title, well, there are not very many ships that can kill an X-7 defender 1v1, so while they themselves are not 'powerhouses' you can still use them aggressively with that extra evade to back you up (not many ships like sitting range 1 to a 6 health, 3 agility enemy that will have focus + evade and possibly even TL from a previous round...)

Concur with ditching the Palpshuttle. The Defenders, without any ability to reposition and lacking autothrusters aren't great late game ships -- you need something to fill that role and help you get more arc coverage. Carnor Jax is great for his ability & Juke combo. Any Ace would likely work, though. Or a third Defender, for some obscene k-turn arc coverage, which will be needed when going against enemy aces.

Actually, Defenders ARE great late-game ships. There are some matchups they may not be able to win 1v1, but not many. With the TIE/d title, you can 'bully' your opponent (and with ion cannon, they must be arc-dodgers or they just lose). With x-7 title, well, there are not very many ships that can kill an X-7 defender 1v1, so while they themselves are not 'powerhouses' you can still use them aggressively with that extra evade to back you up (not many ships like sitting range 1 to a 6 health, 3 agility enemy that will have focus + evade and possibly even TL from a previous round...)

I'm pitting them against other late game ships, such as a Soontir Fel.

That being said, I wasn't taking into account their cost, which, as long as they can minimally flee (which the title helps with), they do get a leg up in that regards.

I believe my issue is that I don't see them being able to close against any decent arc dodger, which is where my original comment came from, though they really don't need to play the same end game as they do.

I believe my issue is that I don't see them being able to close against any decent arc dodger, which is where my original comment came from, though they really don't need to play the same end game as they do.

How so? While many arc dodgers are good at that, the x7 has the ability to flee fast (5 straight out) and then 4K to turn around and get back into it. If the other ship took any 2 speed maneuver during that time (which many probably would have to clear stress, adjust arc, etc) then you will have a R2-3 shot on them. Not the best, but when the idea of a ship is to dodge arcs and not get shot at ever, any shot you can get can count. Anyone see the Hoth open where the Jumpmaster took out Whisper in a 2 dice turret shot? Point is, green dice fail, so with the mobility the x7 beings to the table, I think it can hold its own in those match ups. Not to mention native 3 attack, which can get the job done over time, especially with Juke.

Concur with ditching the Palpshuttle. The Defenders, without any ability to reposition and lacking autothrusters aren't great late game ships -- you need something to fill that role and help you get more arc coverage. Carnor Jax is great for his ability & Juke combo. Any Ace would likely work, though. Or a third Defender, for some obscene k-turn arc coverage, which will be needed when going against enemy aces.

Actually, Defenders ARE great late-game ships. There are some matchups they may not be able to win 1v1, but not many. With the TIE/d title, you can 'bully' your opponent (and with ion cannon, they must be arc-dodgers or they just lose). With x-7 title, well, there are not very many ships that can kill an X-7 defender 1v1, so while they themselves are not 'powerhouses' you can still use them aggressively with that extra evade to back you up (not many ships like sitting range 1 to a 6 health, 3 agility enemy that will have focus + evade and possibly even TL from a previous round...)

I'm pitting them against other late game ships, such as a Soontir Fel.

That being said, I wasn't taking into account their cost, which, as long as they can minimally flee (which the title helps with), they do get a leg up in that regards.

I believe my issue is that I don't see them being able to close against any decent arc dodger, which is where my original comment came from, though they really don't need to play the same end game as they do.

Yeah, 1v1 against Fel is not good for the defender (assuming a defender that costs less than 35 point Fel, of course, because that match will just go to time). But that match was lost when it became 1v1. If it was 2v2 (say 2 defenders vs 2 arc-dodgers) then the defender player has a chance provided he can kill 1 arc-dodger and not lose a defender (not as hard as it sounds, but still not easy). The trick for the defenders here is to not try and get both defenders pointing the same direction (because then arc-dodger will just move out of both arcs). If 2 defenders cover two different directions, then arc-dodger can only avoid one of the two arcs. You can also 'bully' the arc-dodger by rushing into range 1 with both defenders. Now arc-dodger must try to dodge and will give up his shots to do so (then you k-turn and repeat forcing the arc-dodgers to choose between turtle or flee).

I'm definitely not saying it's impossible, but it's not favorable and I'd rather have another option (which is where my recommendation stems from).

That being said, no Palp Aces is going to want to see something like Trip Vet Defenders across the board. There aren't many other lists that can really wipe a shuttle off the board indiscriminately -- right now, that's reserved for well flown swarms w/ dice mods, Trip Jumps that get the first engagement just right, and now these gorram bastards who don't MIND getting flanked for a turn while they lob dice at the shuttle.

EDIT: I'm pretty sure Defenders are going to try and break my addiction to high PS & Palp re-rolls. I don't know if it'll work, but I DO already own two Defenders...

That being said, no Palp Aces is going to want to see something like Trip Vet Defenders across the board. There aren't many other lists that can really wipe a shuttle off the board indiscriminately -- right now, that's reserved for well flown swarms w/ dice mods, Trip Jumps that get the first engagement just right, and now these gorram bastards who don't MIND getting flanked for a turn while they lob dice at the shuttle.

That's why they'll be so strong, I think. X7 Defenders won't throw alpha damage like Scouts, but they can soak a hell of a lot of ace-level fire, and they can deliver a non-trivial pile of damage every turn while doing it.