Can Sahla's hero feat target himself ?

If it's ok, can Sahla that pick prophet target himself to get focused insights again to enpower his insight token ?

And then a hero adjacent another hero that receive insight token will recover 2 heart 2 fatigue , is it correct ?

Another question about prophet:

If a hero (not prophet) already get insight token , can Prophet use soothing insight again in the same hero ?

I would say "no" for the first question

And "yes" for the second one.

But maybe FFG's official answer is needed here

Can Sahla's hero feat target himself ?

If it's ok, can Sahla that pick prophet target himself to get focused insights again to enpower his insight token ?

And then a hero adjacent another hero that receive insight token will recover 2 heart 2 fatigue , is it correct ?

Another question about prophet:

If a hero (not prophet) already get insight token , can Prophet use soothing insight again in the same hero ?

1) Sahla is in his own line of sight. He could pick himself as the target of his heroic feat. However, this would do nothing . Sahla already treats all of his skills as if they were his own (because they are). Therefore, while this is legal, it would be a total waste of his heroic feat. It would not duplicate one of his skills, as you seem to be imagining.

2) Irrelevant, because there would not be a duplicated focused insights skill. Short answer, "no."

3) If I understand your question correctly, you're asking if a hero can be targeted with "Soothing Insight" if he already has the insight token? The answer is yes. However, that hero would recover more wound if he discarded the insight token on his turn first, and then the prophet gave it back to him on the prophet's turn.

I'm almost sure that a figure is never in his own line of sight

I'm almost sure that a figure is never in his own line of sight

On the contrary, they always are. This was confirmed in a rules response, and it's why abilities like the Giant's "Sweep" got changed to say "targeting each OTHER figure in your LOS."

I missed this one

link please ?

I can't find the thread where I posted it, but this is from my email, from Jan 2015:

WoW !

So, it looks like this one is missing from the FAQ and from the one on BGG.

It is a real big point and difference that changes many things !

WoW !

So, it looks like this one is missing from the FAQ and from the one on BGG.

It is a real big point and difference that changes many things !

While I do not dispute that this would be an important point to include in a LOS tutorial (I agree that it is) I do want to point out that it's easy enough to get this from the base rule about LOS. Drawing a line from a corner to itself is always doable.

I can't find the thread where I posted it, but this is from my email, from Jan 2015:

Rule Question:

Is a figure in line of sight of itself? This affects the interpretation of both Runemaster's "Break the Rune" and the giant's "Sweep." Are these abilities intended to attack the figure performing the ability, or do they need "other figure" (or not)? Thank you.

Answer:

Yes, a figure is within line of sight of itself. The giant’s Sweep should read, “Perform an attack. This attack affects each other figure within 2 spaces and line of sight of this monster. Each figure rolls defense dice separately.”

Nathan and I discussed it and we determined that “Break the Rune” should read, “[Action] Perform an attack with a Rune weapon. This attack ignores range and targets each other figure within…"

These corrections will be reflected in the next errata. We will have to look elsewhere to make “stop hitting yourself” jokes.

Thanks for playing,

Kara Centell-Dunk

Creative Content Developer

Oh mighty Maester Zaltyre, Runemaster of all Rules Clarification, Defender of RAW, Keeper of THE GLOSSARY!

How I've been meaning (longing? seems more dramatic yes...) to bring up Sahla after my last succesful Mini-Campaign with him as my Spiritspeaker.

Lo and behold, many hateful Kobolds lay broken before the fury of his Tempest, the Belt of Waterwalking proved a most fortuitous charm.

Yet time after time I find myself intrigued and perplexed by his Heroic Feat. There were times when I chose not to use it because I was concerned it might upset game balance and summon forth the dreaded Trial by Rule Lawyers! So if I may hijack this thread a bit (and make no promises not to necro should more concerns come up later).

1. How does his feat interact with familiars? Reanimate, Wolf, Summon Stone. Does he get a familiar that only lasts until his turn is over?

2. Does his familiar continue play until it is defeated or discarded?

3. Can he even discard the familiar on a future turn since the skill is no longer his to use?

4. Does the use of such a skill affect his fellow hero's familiar? Can there be 2 familiars of the same type or does the summoning of one negate the existence of the previous one?

And these are just Familiar questions, if I had my cards in front of me I'm sure I'd have even more annoying questions...

I pray for you wisdom, imbue us with your mighty Knowledge (which is surely a 7... 6 at the lowest), protect us forever more from Rules Lawyers and deliver us from finickiness, fiddling, and game stoppages, AMEN!

I can't find the thread where I posted it, but this is from my email, from Jan 2015:

Rule Question:

Is a figure in line of sight of itself? This affects the interpretation of both Runemaster's "Break the Rune" and the giant's "Sweep." Are these abilities intended to attack the figure performing the ability, or do they need "other figure" (or not)? Thank you.

Answer:

Yes, a figure is within line of sight of itself. The giant’s Sweep should read, “Perform an attack. This attack affects each other figure within 2 spaces and line of sight of this monster. Each figure rolls defense dice separately.”

Nathan and I discussed it and we determined that “Break the Rune” should read, “[Action] Perform an attack with a Rune weapon. This attack ignores range and targets each other figure within…"

These corrections will be reflected in the next errata. We will have to look elsewhere to make “stop hitting yourself” jokes.

Thanks for playing,

Kara Centell-Dunk

Creative Content Developer

Oh mighty Maester Zaltyre, Runemaster of all Rules Clarification, Defender of RAW, Keeper of THE GLOSSARY!

How I've been meaning (longing? seems more dramatic yes...) to bring up Sahla after my last succesful Mini-Campaign with him as my Spiritspeaker.

Lo and behold, many hateful Kobolds lay broken before the fury of his Tempest, the Belt of Waterwalking proved a most fortuitous charm.

Yet time after time I find myself intrigued and perplexed by his Heroic Feat. There were times when I chose not to use it because I was concerned it might upset game balance and summon forth the dreaded Trial by Rule Lawyers! So if I may hijack this thread a bit (and make no promises not to necro should more concerns come up later).

1. How does his feat interact with familiars? Reanimate, Wolf, Summon Stone. Does he get a familiar that only lasts until his turn is over?

2. Does his familiar continue play until it is defeated or discarded?

3. Can he even discard the familiar on a future turn since the skill is no longer his to use?

4. Does the use of such a skill affect his fellow hero's familiar? Can there be 2 familiars of the same type or does the summoning of one negate the existence of the previous one?

And these are just Familiar questions, if I had my cards in front of me I'm sure I'd have even more annoying questions...

I pray for you wisdom, imbue us with your mighty Knowledge (which is surely a 7... 6 at the lowest), protect us forever more from Rules Lawyers and deliver us from finickiness, fiddling, and game stoppages, AMEN!

This are not only good questions, they are also pretty fun to read....

The forum should have a rule to make at least one question regarding game rules as funny as that.

Flattery will get you everywhere!

I'm weird, I know it and embrace it. Besides, inspiration was easy to come by, Zalty is quite the badass when it comes to this stuff.

To start out, I must say that I do not have a complete answer to your questions. However, I think we can make a little progress. I'll reference a past topic on these forums. Based on the thread:

1) Sahla is able to summon his own Reanimate, rather than Sahla taking control of the necromancer's reanimate. That is, Sahla's reanimate is his own, not the necromancer's.

2) For the reason stated in point 1, Sahla will NOT get any of the bonuses from the Reanimate (Vampiric Blood, etc). Also, copying a skill like Corpse Blast will do Sahla no good, as he doesn't have a Reanimate to explode.

Charmy already stated something to this effect. I was actually going to state an opinion opposite his on question 2 (making 3 irrelevant). I would think (though this is just my thoughts, I do not have confirmation) that at the end of Sahla's turn, his reanimate would disappear along with his skill. I'd expect this to be the same with a summoned stone, image token, tracking token, elixir token, or valor token "generated" by Sahla's feat.

As a side note, the referenced thread and this one (see posts 7 and 13) conflict about the used of passive abilities with dark charmed Reanimate.

Figured I'd add my two cents, since I have used Sahla extensively in campaigns with familiar-wielding heroes.

1. How does his feat interact with familiars? Reanimate, Wolf, Summon Stone. Does he get a familiar that only lasts until his turn is over?

If Sahla copies a familiar feat, such as Raise Dead or Bound by the Hunt, then he is allowed to summon his own familiar. This is an entirely separate figure from the original hero's familiar, and does not possess any of the additional XP abilities of the other familiar. All they get is what is printed on the familiar card. You may need an additional token to represent Sahla's familiar, if the original hero's familiar is already on the map.

2. Does his familiar continue play until it is defeated or discarded?

Sahla's familiar will remain in play until it is defeated. Sahla cannot discard the familiar once the turn he summoned it is over.

3. Can he even discard the familiar on a future turn since the skill is no longer his to use?

As stated above, no. The ability to discard the familiar is given through the summoning card, such as Raise Dead and Bound by the Hunt. He loses this card text at the end of his turn. From that point on, the familiar will stay on the map until it is defeated.

4. Does the use of such a skill affect his fellow hero's familiar? Can there be 2 familiars of the same type or does the summoning of one negate the existence of the previous one?

As stated, there can be two familiars of the same type in the game. They do not interact with each other, and skills that affect the original hero's familiar do not affect Sahla's. For example, you cannot use Sahla's wolf to trigger the other Beastmaster skills such as Savagery. This is because the cards say your wolf specifically, where 'you' refers to the hero with the skill.

Another interesting question, and one which I'm not sure a ruling has been given on, is how Sahla's feat interacts with the Conjurer's "Mirror Image" card. Copying this card would allow Sahla to place his own image tokens on the field with his own attributes, however since he loses the card text at the end of his turn, I assume the tokens he placed will no longer be treated as hero figures... I guess they are effectively not even there anymore at that point.. so not much point in copying that skill! That would be my ruling, anyway.

Charmy, thank you for those pieces of information. Could you please direct me to your source for the "stays in play until it is defeated" and "cannot discard"?

EDIt: see post #13 for my answer.

Charmy, thank you for those pieces of information. Could you please direct me to your source for the "stays in play until it is defeated" and "cannot discard"?

I do recall reading about Sahla summoning his own familiar, and that the familiar stays in play in an official ruling... Sadly I don't have it on me. I can do a proper search when I get home from work tonight if you haven't found it by then.

As for 'cannot discard', that is my own conclusion based on the fact that the ability to discard comes not from the familiar rules and the familiar card, but rather from the text directly printed on the summoning cards. Because Sahla only retains the summoning skill until the end of the turn, the logical conclusion is that the ability to discard is lost along with it. Thankfully the card is not what allows the familiar to have health, movement points, activation, attacks, and the ability to stay on the map, so those things would logically be retained.

Similarly, it follows that if Sahla copied the "Brew Elixir" ability of an Apothecary, he could create his own set of Elixir tokens, but he would only be able to drink them on his turn. The moment his turn ends, he would have his own Elixir token still, but drinking it would be meaningless. The ability to heal from the elixir token comes from the Brew Elixir skill, and that skill is no longer present.

Thanks for Zaltyre's kindness , my English is really poor

In some case , heroes do that because they already decide the active order.

And for

1) Sahla is in his own line of sight. He could pick himself as the target of his heroic feat. However, this would do nothing . Sahla already treats all of his skills as if they were his own (because they are). Therefore, while this is legal, it would be a total waste of his heroic feat. It would not duplicate one of his skills, as you seem to be imagining.

So Sahla can't choose Soothing Insight for himself again to put insight token more once.

If I choose some passive skills like Iron Will and not need to "use"， can I get this skill's effect ?

If Sahla chooses "iron will", his stamina will be increased by 1 for that turn (and he can spend a surge to recover an extra fatigue when attacking).

Figured I'd add my two cents, since I have used Sahla extensively in campaigns with familiar-wielding heroes.

1. How does his feat interact with familiars? Reanimate, Wolf, Summon Stone. Does he get a familiar that only lasts until his turn is over?

If Sahla copies a familiar feat, such as Raise Dead or Bound by the Hunt, then he is allowed to summon his own familiar. This is an entirely separate figure from the original hero's familiar, and does not possess any of the additional XP abilities of the other familiar. All they get is what is printed on the familiar card. You may need an additional token to represent Sahla's familiar, if the original hero's familiar is already on the map.

2. Does his familiar continue play until it is defeated or discarded?

Sahla's familiar will remain in play until it is defeated. Sahla cannot discard the familiar once the turn he summoned it is over.

3. Can he even discard the familiar on a future turn since the skill is no longer his to use?

As stated above, no. The ability to discard the familiar is given through the summoning card, such as Raise Dead and Bound by the Hunt. He loses this card text at the end of his turn. From that point on, the familiar will stay on the map until it is defeated.

4. Does the use of such a skill affect his fellow hero's familiar? Can there be 2 familiars of the same type or does the summoning of one negate the existence of the previous one?

As stated, there can be two familiars of the same type in the game. They do not interact with each other, and skills that affect the original hero's familiar do not affect Sahla's. For example, you cannot use Sahla's wolf to trigger the other Beastmaster skills such as Savagery. This is because the cards say your wolf specifically, where 'you' refers to the hero with the skill.

Another interesting question, and one which I'm not sure a ruling has been given on, is how Sahla's feat interacts with the Conjurer's "Mirror Image" card. Copying this card would allow Sahla to place his own image tokens on the field with his own attributes, however since he loses the card text at the end of his turn, I assume the tokens he placed will no longer be treated as hero figures... I guess they are effectively not even there anymore at that point.. so not much point in copying that skill! That would be my ruling, anyway.

To point 1: Even if the hero summons his own familiar aren't you always limeted by the supply? So wouldn't that mean every familiar is only allowed once on the map?

RE: The supply, not in this case (based solely on the response from Nathan in the linked thread.) The prevailng thought looks to be that he gets his own familiar.

Thanks for responding guys! Bonus points to Charmy who will get his own post full of praise down the line:

1. Completely agree with both of you, the feat says he may use one of those skills as his own, and with RAW, I see he would have the skill to summon his own Reanimate and not a duplicate of his teammate's (unless that was the designers intent, which would need errata clarification).

2 & 3. if following RAW I agree with Charmy's view, this is also how I see it. You could discard it during the same turn it was summoned but not after.

4. I can see 2 of the same type of familiars being in play as legal seeing as Sahla's feat allows something unconventional to happen, the temporary duplication of one skill card.

I would say that the familiar duplication is legit but will last only one turn

So I did a scouring of the rulings, and it appears my memory might have failed me. I do not actually see anything better than Zaltyre's source regarding Sahla and familiar-skills. Whether the familiar stays on the field after the initial turn remains unclarified. Heck, even whether Sahla gets his own familiar or not is only inferred , and never been outright stated.

These are good questions to send to FFG I think for confirmation. Even though the answers I gave make sense to me by the RAW as it stands, FFG are the ultimate arbiters

I've submitted the following to FFG :

"Hello,

I had a question regarding Sahla's Heroic Feat, how it effects other heroes' skill cards(A) and it's interaction with Familiars(B).

"Use at the start of your turn and choose a hero in your line of sight. Until the end of your turn, you may use 1 of that hero's skills as if it were your own."

A) Now would this mean that the player controlling Sahla would gain the class card of that Hero for one turn? As written it seems more likely he would get to use the card, but it never explicitly states that Sahla would receive a duplicate albeit temporary skill card.

Does he then:

1. Gain the ability to use another Hero's Skill card for one turn, meaning if it must be for example exhausted or has some other limitation, the Hero who originally owned the card can not use it's effect until his next turn.

Example: Sahla uses Heroic Feat, chooses Knight's Advance. He exhaust it after a successful defeat of an enemy. The aforementioned knight can not use advance skill until his card refreshes at the beginning of it's next turn, which depending on turn order may be this turn or on the next round.

2. Gain, essentially a duplicate copy of another Hero's skill card, which Sahla can use during his own turn as if it were part of his class deck. Then the skill card would be removed from his deck at the end of his turn.

Example: Sahla chooses to duplicate Iron Will, which will raise his Stamina pool by 1 and the ability to regain 2 stamina from a surge spent on recovering stamina until the end of his turn, at which point his pool would go back to it's original value (not including any skill or equipment that independently alters said pool).

Simply put, and sorry if I'm rambling, does he get to use the card the other hero owns as his own, which would negate any passive bonus to it's original owner, or does he get a "duplicate" card he can use for one turn, which does not effect the other hero's ability to use their own card during his turn?

B) In regards to class skill cards that grant familiars:

Examples:

Sahla chooses Raise Dead. He may now summon the Necromancer's Reanimate familiar and activate it as normal during his turn as if it where his own.

1. This would require to remove any previous Reanimate on the board. At the end of Sahla's turn the Necromancer may take his turn and again summon his Reanimate to regain control of his Familiar.

2. This allows Sahla to summon his own "duplicate" Reanimate, that does not hinder the existence of the Necromancer's Reanimate on the board. Sahla can now summon and activate his familiar as normal.

Also another question...

in either case, once Sahla's turn is over, does the Reanimate stay on the board? Does he disappear at the end of his turn after it has completed it's activation? Does the Sahla Reanimate continue to exist until it has been defeated? Can Sahla activate the familiar on future turns as long as it is not defeated?

Example: Reanimate can continue to have an activation during Sahla's turn (Familiar card gives it an attack action not skill card).

Summoned Stone would only be used to move and block spaces.

Shadow Soul would continue to move around map 1 space per activation, giving it's damage bonus to monsters in the same/adjacent space."

Now I will await the inevitable cursing and muttering under their breaths from my annoyingly long winded email...

I was just trying to be thorough, do you guys think I missed anything?

Pardon the nearly 1 month old necro, buuuuuut....

rugal you are correct sir!

Hey Luijod,

(A) The answer is (1) Sahla gains the ability to use another hero’s skill card for one turn, he does not gain a “copy" of that card.

(B) The answer is (2) Sahla summons his own Reanimate. He gains access to the Necromancer’s card, which allows him to summon and control 1 Reanimate, however he has not stopped the Necromancer from also using this card, which means the Necromancer still has a Reanimate “allowance” if you will (the “you” on the card individually refers to both Sahla and the Necromancer). Once Sahla’s turn is over, he loses access to to the summoning card and familiar itself, which also means he reduces his allowable familiars (granted by the card) from one to none, thus discarding his familiar.

Let me know if I missed anything!

Thanks for playing,

Kara Centell-Dunk

Game Developer

Fantasy Flight Games