(or marry).

I've been struggling to come up with a successful strategy for this so am putting the question out there to see what tips you might have.

I have a specific situation that this refers to but the question can be applied more broadly. I'm running a Rieekan's Aces squadron build with Yavaris, AF2 and a Torp Frigate. Having invested close to 120 points into bomber fighters I want to get my value out of them against ships. However the ever-present Rhymer squad presents hard choices: Send the Aces to tackle the bomber threat or concentrate on the shis and try to maneouver to avoid the worst of the bombers (if possible).

High hull bombers or firesprays take an age to whittle down (in the absence of flotillas support) and Intel means that even if I do fight them, I have to chew through escorts first whilst the bombers are still up to their tricks.

What strategies do you use to deal with this? Where do you find the cost/benefit balance in strength of bombing threat you're up against? You can ignore a small number but at what point do you need to commit your Aces to anti squadron duties, and possibly lose the chance to down that Motti ISD in the process? I'm finding it hard to get decisive victories against this kind of build.

Any thoughts will be gratefully received.

Let them make the first strike, then yav the escorts to death with supporting aa fire if need.

Leave wedge and dutch tying up the bombers whilst everyone else heads of to their duty to god and the queen. That is if wedge survived their first strike seeing as he should have absorbed the full brunt of it if positioned well.

Yavaris Aces should be able to chew through other squadrons. Especially if you have Dutch. You can potentially knock 1-2 escorts out of their activation of you strike them first, of one is Vader, that's a huge hit.

Yavaris Aces should be able to chew through other squadrons. Especially if you have Dutch. You can potentially knock 1-2 escorts out of their activation of you strike them first, of one is Vader, that's a huge hit.

However, if you hit first, Yavaris doesnt work. And if you have Rieekan, why bother? Wedge is going to die in the first squadron fight anyway.

"If you hit first, Yavaris doesn't work."

What do you mean by that?

Yavaris Aces should be able to chew through other squadrons. Especially if you have Dutch. You can potentially knock 1-2 escorts out of their activation of you strike them first, of one is Vader, that's a huge hit.

However, if you hit first, Yavaris doesnt work. And if you have Rieekan, why bother? Wedge is going to die in the first squadron fight anyway.

Activate first in a given round after engagement has already happened.

If your enemy has a very bomber-centric ball with Intel they would probably mostly ignore your squadrons. They are there to throw powerful dice at capital ships, not throw ineffective dice at squadrons.

If they have good anti-squadron support, then maybe. Obviously you need to read the situation.

"If you hit first, Yavaris doesn't work."

What do you mean by that?

I think he means that if you move into engagement range first, and then attack you don't get the double attack from Yavaris.

It's true of course, I wasn't only talking about the first round of engagement, though.

"If you hit first, Yavaris doesn't work."

What do you mean by that?

I think he means that if you move into engagement range first, and then attack you don't get the double attack from Yavaris.

It's true of course, I wasn't only talking about the first round of engagement, though.

That is generally why I'll have a different ship with Adar and a Squadron Token... that ship can do what it wants, and just incidentally throw Dutch where he needs to go to cause Havoc with Yavaris...

If y ou say its too difficult, I say you're not being Tricky enough!

"If you hit first, Yavaris doesn't work."

What do you mean by that?

Ok, if you alpha strike, Yavaris doesnt work.

To be clear, if you are bringing Rebel Rieekan aces, you should be winning the squadron fight the first round in which you activate Yavaris. Otherwise they have succeeded in slowing you down too much. So sure you could activate yavaris first in the next round, but your opponent has already succeeded in compromising your gameplan by this point.

Yavaris Aces should be able to chew through other squadrons. Especially if you have Dutch. You can potentially knock 1-2 escorts out of their activation of you strike them first, of one is Vader, that's a huge hit.

However, if you hit first, Yavaris doesnt work. And if you have Rieekan, why bother? Wedge is going to die in the first squadron fight anyway.

Activate first in a given round after engagement has already happened.

If your enemy has a very bomber-centric ball with Intel they would probably mostly ignore your squadrons. They are there to throw powerful dice at capital ships, not throw ineffective dice at squadrons.

If they have good anti-squadron support, then maybe. Obviously you need to read the situation.

If they're using Intel to try and ignore Yavaris' squadrons, they must surely be smart enough to also use that Intel to avoid Yavaris' squadrons, too... I mean, maybe it's just my experience, but it's a pretty rare occasion on which I get to doubletap both Dutch and Wedge into the same target(s) because the target just sat in front of both of them. Sure that means they're effective at area denial... but it's not a particularly large area they're denying.

Yavaris Aces should be able to chew through other squadrons. Especially if you have Dutch. You can potentially knock 1-2 escorts out of their activation of you strike them first, of one is Vader, that's a huge hit.

However, if you hit first, Yavaris doesnt work. And if you have Rieekan, why bother? Wedge is going to die in the first squadron fight anyway.

Activate first in a given round after engagement has already happened.

If your enemy has a very bomber-centric ball with Intel they would probably mostly ignore your squadrons. They are there to throw powerful dice at capital ships, not throw ineffective dice at squadrons.

If they have good anti-squadron support, then maybe. Obviously you need to read the situation.

If they're using Intel to try and ignore Yavaris' squadrons, they must surely be smart enough to also use that Intel to avoid Yavaris' squadrons, too... I mean, maybe it's just my experience, but it's a pretty rare occasion on which I get to doubletap both Dutch and Wedge into the same target(s) because the target just sat in front of both of them. Sure that means they're effective at area denial... but it's not a particularly large area they're denying.

Yeah, it's best to move away, but maybe you can't move everyone away all at once, or perhaps there is some other reason it's best not to move.

Or the other option is to not focus down the escorts and instead force them into hard choices. That's why you bring Tycho and Wedge. Tie them up in multiple places with enough of a spread to make the intel ship make a hard choice between one or the other... tycho's movement and defense is a headache for rhymerballs. The key is placement so Intel (dengar) cannot let those bombers loose or can only free up a small number at a time.

Yavaris Aces should be able to chew through other squadrons. Especially if you have Dutch. You can potentially knock 1-2 escorts out of their activation of you strike them first, of one is Vader, that's a huge hit.

However, if you hit first, Yavaris doesnt work. And if you have Rieekan, why bother? Wedge is going to die in the first squadron fight anyway.

Activate first in a given round after engagement has already happened.

If your enemy has a very bomber-centric ball with Intel they would probably mostly ignore your squadrons. They are there to throw powerful dice at capital ships, not throw ineffective dice at squadrons.

If they have good anti-squadron support, then maybe. Obviously you need to read the situation.

If they're using Intel to try and ignore Yavaris' squadrons, they must surely be smart enough to also use that Intel to avoid Yavaris' squadrons, too... I mean, maybe it's just my experience, but it's a pretty rare occasion on which I get to doubletap both Dutch and Wedge into the same target(s) because the target just sat in front of both of them. Sure that means they're effective at area denial... but it's not a particularly large area they're denying.

Exactly this. I actually dropped Dutch, because I rarely setup the tap + Wedge combo and really when it comes down to it and almost never pulled it off with Yavaris for the double tap. Honestly Dutch is pretty underwhelming compared to a Scurgg... I dropped him like a bad habit for another scurgg to pair with Nym and have never looked back since.

Are Scurrgs really that good? I see them from time to time, but no Rogue and low AA make me skeptical.

--

Also, everyone remember: Killings squadrons is points. They count. They count good.

Toss most of your squadrons into killing other squadrons

and send your serious bombers to kill ships. There. Send ships to kill his ships.

"If you hit first, Yavaris doesn't work."

What do you mean by that?

I think he means that if you move into engagement range first, and then attack you don't get the double attack from Yavaris.

It's true of course, I wasn't only talking about the first round of engagement, though.

Out of curiosity, if I overlap a squadron with a ship, when the squadron is repositioned, does it count as it moved for Yavaris purposes?

This exact discussion is why I've given up on trying to fly a Rhymerball alone. I was so tempted by the ability to cram a good nine or ten bombers into a list and crush even medium ships with one activation, but then you're left with two Advanceds and a pair of Jumpmasters, so even a tiny squadron force can tie you down. Never mind trying to cut through something like aces.

What do you folks generally take as a dedicated anti-squadron force for Rebel scum you delightful Rebel people? I'm familiar with the Imperial end (Vader/Soontir/Dengar with sometimes Mauler), but haven't seen a Rebel Aces list outside of the typical Jan/Wedge/Dutch build. What do you all usually include in a Rieekan Aces list? I haven't dabbled with Rebel lists much, but I think the biggest hurdle is being able to throw enough damage at Vader with cheaper or very durable ships so that you can survive the counter from Mauler (plus his splash damage) and Soontir, with enough left to still win the squadron fight. I suppose you could use a swarm of A-Wings, because Vader can't be on top of Soontir, so there has to be somewhere you can attack Soontir from outside of Vader's Escort range.

What if they take a pair of Advanceds instead of Vader?

Out of curiosity, if I overlap a squadron with a ship, when the squadron is repositioned, does it count as it moved for Yavaris purposes?

I don't think so. You're not "moving" the squadron, you're "placing" it. Otherwise, overlapping Mauler would give free damage. Which, if that were true, I'd run him into a squadron fight, then overlap him with a Raider to push out more damage. It'd be like the ultimate Yavaris double tap.

I've gotten to the point now as an Imperial, that I take dedicated Anti squadrons, 130pts is an 8-2 all by itself, Vader/Dengar/Mauler/IG-88/Soontir, they will eat RebelAces Rieekan squadrons, or Rhymerballs, and looking at the number of Rebel Aces and Rhymerballs in the top of the Regionals data sets, it is easy points.

ISD/GSD/Raider with the Anti squadrons, kill all enemy squadrons and 1 big ship or 2 med/small ships is usually enough for a 9-1, and there is not much they can do about it.

What do you folks generally take as a dedicated anti-squadron force for Rebel scum you delightful Rebel people? I'm familiar with the Imperial end (Vader/Soontir/Dengar with sometimes Mauler), but haven't seen a Rebel Aces list outside of the typical Jan/Wedge/Dutch build.

You are making an error with dedicated antisquadron force logic. This is the thing with Rieekan aces, they do everything.

Wedge, Dutch, Luke are all strong anti squadron and excellent bombers. As are vanilla X wings.

Jan, Tycho, Keylan, A wings and YT 2400s are all good at anti squadron and decent at bombing.

Scurrgs and Y wings are useless at anti squadron.

So the real question is hodw many squadrons are not pure bombers?

For me, all my rieekan ace squad build are not scurrgs or y wings....

You cant win.

I've gotten to the point now as an Imperial, that I take dedicated Anti squadrons, 130pts is an 8-2 all by itself, Vader/Dengar/Mauler/IG-88/Soontir, they will eat RebelAces Rieekan squadrons, or Rhymerballs, and looking at the number of Rebel Aces and Rhymerballs in the top of the Regionals data sets, it is easy points.

Ig88 is the key there. Zombie Wedge and zombie Luke deny you any shot at doing much damage to the other squads, unless you have a way to get to Jan/hwk...

I've gotten to the point now as an Imperial, that I take dedicated Anti squadrons, 130pts is an 8-2 all by itself, Vader/Dengar/Mauler/IG-88/Soontir, they will eat RebelAces Rieekan squadrons, or Rhymerballs, and looking at the number of Rebel Aces and Rhymerballs in the top of the Regionals data sets, it is easy points.

Ig88 is the key there. Zombie Wedge and zombie Luke deny you any shot at doing much damage to the other squads, unless you have a way to get to Jan/hwk...

Yes IG-88 and Mauler, can theoretically kill Jan in one round between them, but it requires some luck to pull off. that or a Ship AA fire to finish her that round.

I've gotten to the point now as an Imperial, that I take dedicated Anti squadrons, 130pts is an 8-2 all by itself, Vader/Dengar/Mauler/IG-88/Soontir, they will eat RebelAces Rieekan squadrons, or Rhymerballs, and looking at the number of Rebel Aces and Rhymerballs in the top of the Regionals data sets, it is easy points.

Ig88 is the key there. Zombie Wedge and zombie Luke deny you any shot at doing much damage to the other squads, unless you have a way to get to Jan/hwk...

Yes IG-88 and Mauler, can theoretically kill Jan in one round between them, but it requires some luck to pull off. that or a Ship AA fire to finish her that round.

And I return to my initial point. Let the rhymerball make the first move whilst under the protection of rebel ships rather than near imperial AA fire.

That is not going to deter me,

Your squadrons are there to pummel ships, my squadrons are there to kill squadrons, that is the only reason for them to be in the fleet, once they achieve that goal, your RebelAces Rieekan fleet become toothless, even if it costs me my squadrons in the process, I still have an ISD and GSD to kill a 1 or more ships to come out ahead.

Out of curiosity, if I overlap a squadron with a ship, when the squadron is repositioned, does it count as it moved for Yavaris purposes?

No. That Squadron is not activating, and a squadron can only "Move" during an Activation.

You can even move the Squadron with Adar Tallon, de activate it, and then use Yavaris later in the same turn and have it not count as moved.

Yavaris literally goes like this:

"I am activating this Squadron. This squadron has the option of doing one of the following:

MOVE then SHOOT

SHOOT then MOVE

SHOOT then SHOOT..."

I've gotten to the point now as an Imperial, that I take dedicated Anti squadrons, 130pts is an 8-2 all by itself, Vader/Dengar/Mauler/IG-88/Soontir, they will eat RebelAces Rieekan squadrons, or Rhymerballs, and looking at the number of Rebel Aces and Rhymerballs in the top of the Regionals data sets, it is easy points.

Ig88 is the key there. Zombie Wedge and zombie Luke deny you any shot at doing much damage to the other squads, unless you have a way to get to Jan/hwk...

Yes IG-88 and Mauler, can theoretically kill Jan in one round between them, but it requires some luck to pull off. that or a Ship AA fire to finish her that round.

Flight Controllers is a nice boon, here. It gives you a chance to roll that extra Accuracy to lock both of her braces. Otherwise it can't be done. Unless Mauler can find a nice spot to sneak in outside of Escort range and plink off a point of damage, his splash will drop her to three hull, and with only four dice it's impossible for Iggy to finish her off. Unless your opponent has foolishly discarded one of her Braces already, but seeing the Mauler/Iggy combo should be enough to encourage someone to hold off on that.

What do you folks generally take as a dedicated anti-squadron force for Rebel scum you delightful Rebel people? I'm familiar with the Imperial end (Vader/Soontir/Dengar with sometimes Mauler), but haven't seen a Rebel Aces list outside of the typical Jan/Wedge/Dutch build.

You are making an error with dedicated antisquadron force logic. This is the thing with Rieekan aces, they do everything.

Wedge, Dutch, Luke are all strong anti squadron and excellent bombers. As are vanilla X wings.

Jan, Tycho, Keylan, A wings and YT 2400s are all good at anti squadron and decent at bombing.

Scurrgs and Y wings are useless at anti squadron.

So the real question is hodw many squadrons are not pure bombers?

For me, all my rieekan ace squad build are not scurrgs or y wings....

You cant win.

So that's an erroneous last statement there, "You can't win." And you also didn't answer the question.

To that first part, an Imperial Aces list and a Rieekan Aces lists is actually a very good matchup. They'll brutalize each other, and whichever side comes out on top, they won't have much left.

To the second, what do you bring in your Rieekan list that will stop a dedicated Imperial squadron force?

You've given some good strategic answers (letting the Imperial squadrons come to you, so you can Yavaris double-tap and hit them with AA fire), but you haven't given any specifics as to what you bring. As an example, here's what I brought this past weekend to Regionals:

VSD-I w/Boosted Comms, Flight Controllers

VSD-I w/Boosted Comms, Flight Controllers

VSD-I w/Boosted Comms, Admiral Motti

- Rhymer

- 4 x TIE Bombers

- 2 x TIE Advanceds

- Dengar

- "Mauler" Mithel

- IG-88

So you have the threat of five dedicated bombers, plus five dedicated anti-fighter squadrons that can also combine for an average 3/4 damage against ships, bringing it to a total of 8/9 points of ship damage per turn.

What Rieekan build would you bring to stop that, but also be useful against other fleet builds? That was the OP's original question. And I get what you're saying. The Rebels have a lot of squadrons that are great against fighters and ships. The Imperials do, too, which is why I field the build above.

And I wouldn't recommend sitting back and waiting for this build to come to you. Even if your squadrons are sitting perfectly to Engage any bombers supported by Rhymer, this force could jump in, Intel your squadrons, and kill Yavaris in a single activation. Now you have one turn to kill all ten squadrons before I just Intel away and start wrecking your other ships.

And I wouldn't recommend sitting back and waiting for this build to come to you. Even if your squadrons are sitting perfectly to Engage any bombers supported by Rhymer, this force could jump in, Intel your squadrons, and kill Yavaris in a single activation.

So yes, if the stars align, you can Intel every defender in a wide enough range, have a token for the fourth squadron activation, and can get four stands into the side arc of Yavaris without any being engaged, you have a 0.1% chance of one-activation killing Yavaris. Hope you weren't planning to do that from medium range and let the evade come into play, too...