I've no issue proxying upgrades or pilot cards as long as you know the ability, I'm less keen on proxying ships that arnt released yet.

Store championships, on up? Play by the rules; have legit components. Borrowing is fine.

Seasonal kit tournaments? Only released stuff unless the event says otherwise; not going to sweat it if you're short an upgrade, as long as you have at least one of each card. Maybe not even then (like if you forgot them in your other binder at home or w/e).

Casual play? Go nuts.

Yeah, playing for fun, you don't want to get too bent out of shape. But f you're showing up every week with your templates from Attack Wing and your Micro Machines and your glass counters and dice instead of tokens, and always borrowing damage decks and playing off a printout from Fab's or Yet Another .... well, that would bug me.

I've spent a lot of money on X-Wing. I never play with things I don't have. I love playing. When someone plays a list for a few weeks and not get the cards. Drives me nuts. Am I the only one who feels this way? I hope not. Buy the dang ships peeps. I do.

I'm mostly the same way. That is to say, I can't stand to proxy and rarely do it myself. I tend to look down on the practice in general, but if a friend wants to proxy something, I just can't look them in the eye and say "no." So I just let it go, even though I'm generally against proxies and only play with what I have.

The only times I can remember proxying is when I was playing on Vassal with my brother and I knew he had the card(s) I wanted to use and wasn't using them in the list he was flying, because I know that if we lived in the same city, we'd be trading the cards all the time.

In general, I agree: "Buy the dang ships peeps [and cards too]."

I do wonder how much the range of views on proxies comes from the broad base of gaming backgrounds which xwign attracts. Wargamers, board gamers, collectible card gamers, and even non gamers all seem to get drawn together in XWing.

Yeah, this is one of those topics that really highlights the differences in peoples gaming backgrounds.

Personally, I have no issues with proxying, with the caveat that if I have any queries about the wording on the card, that I can peruse an actual card to check how it works. Sometimes the squadbuiders make mistakes. There's digital copies of every released card on the internet, so I'm happy to play without any physical cards at all.

Because lets face it, the cards are not playing pieces, they're just reference material. If I already have one copy of that reference material, why would I need another copy in order to use it twice? That's like buying a separate 40K codex for each unit I want to run in my army. I don't need four copies of Integrated Astromech to remember what it does, or what ships it's equipped on, or how much it costs. Requiring four copies of it to physically be on the table is just... ridiculous.

This is one of the main reasons why I have zero interest in any official FFG events. Requiring multiple redundant copies of identical upgrade cards is just so grating. Apart from that I find the 100 point tournament style game to be BORING and focusing on the competitive element of the game kills the Star Wars narrative for me.

Honestly, in casual games I often don't even ask whether friends have the cards. For most people I know it's not an issue, and a lot of us just bring squad-builder lists anyway. It saves some time and effort putting a list together and breaking it down if you don't have to dig all the stuff out of your binder.

This.

Between us, we have multiple-multiples of almost every thing (including Epics). I don't care if we have a run on Tacticians or something and we're short one. Everyone in the group I play with has bought enough stuff that no one feels like anyone is freeloading.

Why would you proxy cards in a miniature game?

If you want to try something out before you make your purchase you have vassal. And they do a good job about putting in spoiled ships so players can try them out. I am sure they have Poe-9 out right now.

I have no interest in buying the Ghost, so if I want to use dorsal turret I'll proxie it. I spend a great deal of money on this game, but I refuse to buy ships I don't intend to ever play with for one card. That's just silly.

I think it would be interesting if everyone who responds indicates if they primarily play casually, or if they primarily play with a mind towards tournaments.

While I don't recognize everyone in the thread well enough to say for certain, the impression I'm getting is that tournament players don't typically care what you do on casual nights, and the casual players are split about if it's an issue or not.

I could be wrong!

For the record, I'm a tournament-minded player.

I have no interest in buying the Ghost, so if I want to use dorsal turret I'll proxie it. I spend a great deal of money on this game, but I refuse to buy ships I don't intend to ever play with for one card. That's just silly.

Same here I don't buy starvipers just for auto thrusters or the Firespray for HLC.

I casual play, as long as people make it clear what's what I never have a problem.

In a tournament, sorry bud.

Personally I don't like proxying at all. I guess I understand why some people do it, but to me it's like... hmm... like opening your presents before christmas and playing with them for weeks, then handing them back so they can be wrapped just so you can open them and then continue using them. Where's the fun, the anticipation, in waiting for them to come out if you're just going to play with them before hand? Where's the rush of excitement when they finally come in? You've already been using them for weeks.

$40 Papatine card on eBay makes me not care if people proxy.

I never understand the buying a card by itself idea, especially when it is more than a dollar. Like people were trying to get 3P0 for 20 bucks before the last few tournaments (store championships came out with an alt art card).

You might as well save up and buy the ship itself, at least that way you get a model, and a bunch of other cards too. Palpatine, the X1 titles, and some other stuff all make the Raider worthwhile if you really want those cards, along with the 2 models in it, way more worth than a 40dollar card by itself....pay 3 times that amount and you get a whole LOT more!

Also, on a slight side note: as someone who comes from a TCG/CCG background, I must say it amuses me seeing people freak out at $40 for a single card. I used to pay that multiple times for playsets of cards in other games.

I have yet to have someone try and proxy a model but I don't really care about the cards so much anymore - the last few times I've played people have shown me their lists on a smartphone or print outs and as long as they are within 100 pts, I know what's going on and what to expect so don't care so much what cards are on the table. The only time I recall caring too much about another player's cards is when they have something that should be discarded, then I want to make sure I see that happening, but I think that's just my inherent mistrust of human nature

Agreeing with most of the posts here I've read, for casual play, I think proxies are fine. Between two TFA core sets and the T-70 expansion, I have all the T-70s I want. So, yes, I'll proxy Integrated Astromech for casual games IF I don't have other modifications I want to use on my X-wings. I've proxied TLTs just to see what all of the fuss is about. Eventually, I'll buy a K-wing or two, but curiosity motivated me to try them out before I get the accompanying ship.

Really, I can't say I've used proxies for much of anything else.

That said, I think that proxies should not only be excluded from tournaments at all levels, but they should also be excluded from all games unless all players agree to allow them in advance.

Personally, I disagree with the mindset that cards are just reminder rules. The way I see it, the cards ARE the upgrades. You can't add upgrades if you don't have the cards. You and your opponent may both know what the card says and may be able to play without it, but you're still ppaying without owning the actual card. For the exception of testing a list, I basically the practice of using proxy cards as stealing from FFG.

Now, wome people say that ard X is too expensive or the ship it comes with is somerhing they'll never fly. I'm sorry to hear that, but you don't have a right to use every upgrade released. If you can't afford it or don't want to pay for it, then you can't play with it. Just to be clear, I own no epic ships, no K-wing, and no Ghost, among several other expansions. That means no Palpatine, no Dorsal Turret, no Conn*r nets, no Extra Munitions, and no Twin Laser Turrets. I'm missing a lot of pieces and I just get by with out them. I don't build squads with those pieces because I know I don't own them. I have no special right to play with those pieces just because I want to. I've got to wait until I buy those ships.

It is theft. You do not honor the game. I'm okay with proxy is saying... I enjoy watching this game die...Spin it however you like but that's the bottom line...

I ain't for it.

Im guessing most of you arent in a team, when you want to test against multiple variants of another comp (say 3U vs 3U) you dont go out to buy 6 U boats just because.

It is theft. You do not honor the game. I'm okay with proxy is saying... I enjoy watching this game die...Spin it however you like but that's the bottom line...

LOL! No it's really not. If you're playing in a tournament and the entry rules say no proxies, then no proxies. If I'm playing a casual game with my friends I see no reason I should buy 2 star vipers just so I can field my 4 a wings with autothrusters. As a matter of courtesy I usually ask any opponent I'm not used to playing if they mind if I proxie a card or two before I plan a list.

I've spent a lot of money on X-Wing. I never play with things I don't have. I love playing. When someone plays a list for a few weeks and not get the cards. Drives me nuts. Am I the only one who feels this way? I hope not. Buy the dang ships peeps. I do.

I do it... but not very often. I usually only do it when the card I need is only offered in an expansion I otherwise do not want. Example: until recently, I did not collect Scum... I didn't want to collect Scum as that seemed like an expense I could not justify... but I wanted the Auto Thruster cards. Example 2: I already own 2 TIE Defenders and 2 TIE Bombers... I do not need any more of either one but Imperial Veterans has the fixes needed to make the Defender what it should have been all along.I would only do it in casual play and/or with opponents approval; I would never do it in a tournament unless specifically permitted to per tourney rules... and probably not then.

As far as my opponent... Why should I give a **** if he has the actual cards or proxies them? After all, my experience of the game will be the same either way. Now, if we are talking miniatures... that is a different matter. If someone has a cool model that is a reasonable substitute for the correct one... alright. If they are proxying a TIE/FO with a TIE/Ln... I'm Ok with that. If they are substituting a Tie Interceptor for a TIE Phantom... on a consistent basis... I am less alright with it.

So I guess I could say ...

Cards... I don't care,

Models... I might care... depends.

Coming from other wargames, I couldn't care less about the cards in principle. If you have the models and I have a copy of your cards and what they do (photocopy, a list with the details written out, whatever) then I have all the information I need. Now I don't typically use proxy cards (VASSAL does me fine for playtesting lists I don't own the cards for and the collector in me does prefer the shiny real cards) but it seems ridiculous to expect players to buy a $100 ship for a piece of cardboard. That's madness and no doubt FFG encourage this by demanding official cards at their events (fair enough - they have every right to use every trick to convince you to buy their plastic crack) but seeing gamers get bent out of shape because their opponent didn't spend an obscene amount of money for the "official" pieces of card as opposed to a print out, that's pretty sad. "I paid through the nose so you should too" is a bizarre argument, as is the odd nerd company loyalty or the idea that FFG are getting hurt. Now, if the opponent doesn't bring a copy of his list and what the cards do, yeah, that's an issue. Damage cards likewise need to be official to prevent shenanigans. Beyond that, do you really need to be all huffy because your opponent didn't buy an epic ship for one card?

Why would you proxy cards in a miniature game?

If you want to try something out before you make your purchase you have vassal. And they do a good job about putting in spoiled ships so players can try them out. I am sure they have Poe-9 out right now.

Because I have no interest in playing on Vassal. If I wanted to play a game on my computer... I would. I have plenty. X-wing Miniatures game is a ... well, ... its a miniatures game... played with miniatures.

At least that's the way I like to play. You may enjoy it in other forms, and that is Ok.

$40 Papatine card on eBay makes me not care if people proxy.

This ^^^ I just bought a X1/Adv Targeting Comp combo as I like having the cards, and would have liked to have got a Palp card at the same time, but no way.

Actually would have liked to have bought the Raider and done it right, but couldn't quite commit to the full cost.

Proxying for casual play is never a problem. Just never in a tournament or when prizes are at stake.

I'm not saying that I disagree with you, I'm not actually sure what I think at the moment, but why not in tournament play or when there are prizes at stake? What's the difference?

I totally understand why FFG don't want people proxying in official events, but what does it matter otherwise? If the objective is a fun day playing X-Wing why would it matter if your opponent didn't have all the cards he or she needed for their list? Why would it lessen either of our enjoyment?

For the record I'd much rather people asked to borrow whatever they didn't have and I'm more than happy to lend stuff out within reason, but if that wasn't possible then I think I'd much rather everyone had a fun day playing X-Wing than some people being excluded or not being able to use the list they wanted due to to one reason or another.

A long time ago I saw a guy proxying cards in a tournament and I was angry. Not so much that I said anything about it, but internally I was pissed. Here's why:

Wave 4 had recently come out. I wanted to run 4 ships with Predator, but the only way to get Predator at the time was to buy a TIE Defender. Now, TIE Defenders were overpriced from the beginning, but I bought 2 at launch and eventually a 3rd JUST for the 3rd Predator card. I couldn't afford a 4th one though, so I only had 3 Predator upgrade cards. In the end I had to change my list to be only 3 Predators and 1 Outmaneuver. I did ok, but not that well.

Turns out this guy who was proxying cards, had proxied a Predator card. There it was, printed out on printer paper with faded ink from an inkjet printer... And I'm like "Wow, so I didn't have to buy that 3rd Defender after all huh? Should have just printed all my cards and saved a load of cash!" - Plus I could have gone with my original list plan, had we all been on the same footing.