Back to general Epic advice, I'd just point out that in Epic certain abilities/ship traits are more valuable than they are in dogfights.

In general, unmodified attacks and unmodified defense are much more common in Epic. So I'd try to pick ships that function OK without tokens. Health is more reliable than agility. Abilities that punish/reward a lack of tokens are also much more likely to trigger. Opportunist always works against Epic ships. Sensor Jammer is a guaranteed damage cancelled against most Epic ship attacks. Juke is great against fighters but won't help you against the reinforce action. Crackshot *does* work against reinforce. Cards like Countermeasures (bonus points if you remembered this card existed) are actually worth taking a look at, particularly if you know you're flying against an Ordnance Tube Raider. Ion Pulse Missiles are fantastic for shutting down energy production and preventing shield recovery.

The ability to cover distance quickly is also much more valuable. Epic ships are vulnerable from the rear (less shields, weapon blind spot, nasty crits, shut down their ability to generate energy) so ships that are able to quickly get in behind Epic ships and harass them can really earn their points quickly. A-Wings, T-70s, and large ships with boost are great for this. An Epic ship can only Recover a single section at a time so if you are putting damage on both sections they are going to have a harder time keeping their shields up.

Wow, this is all great advice. I've gotten tips for playing with a CR-90 (generally and against a specific build I'm expecting). Tips for epic play in general, both tactics and list building. Thank you so much for taking the time to write it out.

I will definitely keep ships mostly generic in larger numbers, instead of using fewer, more expensive aces. It is very clear that simple is better. As we're new to the format, this will hopefully result in fewer missed opportunities and a faster, more effective game overall. One question about a couple of those aces, though... it seems like the general consensus is that it's ok to use particular aces in some circumstances, though not always the same ones as you'd find in a regular 100-point tournament style game. Jan Ors has been mentioned multiple times, and I certainly see the value of using her to boost my CR90's main gun.

Besides her, the two that I'm thinking could be extremely potent in Epic are Etahn and Esege. Etahn's ability seems like it's tailor-made for Epic. All those extra shots with an ability that isn't range-based, but simply about having somebody in your arc? Beastly, especially since the crit effects on huge ships are, well, huge. Give him a Sensor Jammer (GREAT suggestion for epic, btw!), expert handling to discard target locks, and a droid designed to keep him alive, and just point him at whatever you want to kill.

Esege's ability is apparently supposed to be usable by Epic ships, which circumvents their usual inability to use focus tokens. It seems that keeping him near my CR90 would be extremely powerful. However, this strikes me as almost a loophole that is against the spirit of the rules, if not the letter of them. I don't want to turn this awesome thread into a debate about the morality of using certain legal combos, but perhaps this guy should be relegated to the "cutthroat competitive" type of game, rather than a game where a couple of friends are playing epic for the first time.

If I am able, I'll post my planned list in a little bit. My game's coming up soon (3 hours) but perhaps I'll be able to get some feedback before I have to "lock in" my choices. Oh, and I know my opponent is going to be bringing at least 8 Tie Fighters (academies) and 2 Gamma Squadron bombers because he asked to borrow them!

I'll also be sure to let everybody know how the game goes.

1 epic each, try and build squads and fly them together.

Wow, this is all great advice. I've gotten tips for playing with a CR-90 (generally and against a specific build I'm expecting). Tips for epic play in general, both tactics and list building. Thank you so much for taking the time to write it out.

For people that play Epic and really enjoy it, it's nice to take the time to ensure that someone new has the same experience. I've talked to people that have tried one or two games and just kind of written it off. That's unfortunate and I know I hope to make it a better experience for you guys when you play.

Besides her, the two that I'm thinking could be extremely potent in Epic are Etahn and Esege. Etahn's ability seems like it's tailor-made for Epic. All those extra shots with an ability that isn't range-based, but simply about having somebody in your arc? Beastly, especially since the crit effects on huge ships are, well, huge. Give him a Sensor Jammer (GREAT suggestion for epic, btw!), expert handling to discard target locks, and a droid designed to keep him alive, and just point him at whatever you want to kill.

Esege's ability is apparently supposed to be usable by Epic ships, which circumvents their usual inability to use focus tokens. It seems that keeping him near my CR90 would be extremely powerful. However, this strikes me as almost a loophole that is against the spirit of the rules, if not the letter of them. I don't want to turn this awesome thread into a debate about the morality of using certain legal combos, but perhaps this guy should be relegated to the "cutthroat competitive" type of game, rather than a game where a couple of friends are playing epic for the first time.

I say it's important to set expectations with your friends. Talk to them ahead of time. Personally, I wouldn't go for the more "optimized" or "cut throat" list options for your first game. It's more fun when it's just a general fight, in my humble opinion. If they max out, though, you will regret it. That's why it's important to be on the same page.

I tend to find the game much more satisfying when it's almost all Generics flying against each other. It just seems more Star Wars-ian, if that makes sense.

Ok, so this is the list so far:

CR90 Fore

-Weapons Engineer

-Sensor Team

-Single Turbolaser

CR90 Aft

-Shield Technician

-Single Turbolaser
-Backup Shield Generator
-Optimized Generators

T-65 X-Wing Red Squadron Veteran w/R2 Astro, Integrated Astromech x 3
B-Wing Dagger Squadron w/Proton Torps, Extra Mun, Guidance Chips x 2
B-Wing Dagger Squadron w/ Ion Torpedo, Extra Mun, Guidance Chip x 1

That puts me at 285 points. I have wiggle room. Any suggestions for additions/subtractions/substitutions? I've got a hardpoint free (for quad lasers?), two team slots, and a cargo slot. I was hoping to fit in Han on the CR90 but I'm out of crew slots and it'd be another 4 points to add the title that gives me one more. I was thinking about either upgrading some more of the B-Wing torps to Ions, or giving one or more of the X-Wings one, to deal with the 8-Tie swarm I know I'll be facing. I could upgrade the T-65's to T-70s, maybe? Maybe I should put Cluster Bombs on the CR90 for when the swarm gets close? As a lark I considered putting Leia in one of the B-Wings. She's probably not optimal but it could be very useful in a round where I need to K-turn with a bunch of ships. Speaking of B-Wings, I didn't use their systems slot for anything, maybe I should? Just throwing stuff out there.

I've got to leave in about an hour and a half, but if anybody has some quick suggestions, it would be welcome!

Epic is fun but I am not sure it is quite as balanced as normal 100 point games. As has been pointed out, aces like Soontir tend to evaporate spectacularly when lit up by 300 points of enemy instead of 100. Similarly, generics punch above their weight a lot of the time. And some special rules suddenly go from being situational to downright powerhouse (Captain Jonus escorting a tooled-up Raider).

IMHO, Epic is better suited to "beer and pretzels" gaming rather than finely balanced tournament play.

I've got to leave in about an hour and a half, but if anybody has some quick suggestions, it would be welcome!

If you have a spare cargo slot, take Tibanna Gas, every time. The one-off boost of energy at the right time can make all the difference.

I like Fire Control Systems on the B-wings, it is an action-free boost to their firepower that cannot be blocked and is a bargain at 2 points a pop.

Engineering team is also a nice to have if you need to fill up the last few points. Remember, energy is the lifeblood of Epic ships that enables them to do everything else. Anything that gives extra energy is a good use of spare points/slots if you are happy with the rest of your list.

I'd go for 2 Z-95's, but that's me.

You better place those B-wings smartly or they won't do much good. Not too late to swap them for some Y-wings with only Torps and maybe some more cheap ships.

GOOD LUCK!

Ok, so this is the list so far:

CR90 Fore

-Weapons Engineer

-Sensor Team

-Single Turbolaser

CR90 Aft

-Shield Technician

-Single Turbolaser

-Backup Shield Generator

-Optimized Generators

T-65 X-Wing Red Squadron Veteran w/R2 Astro, Integrated Astromech x 3

B-Wing Dagger Squadron w/Proton Torps, Extra Mun, Guidance Chips x 2

B-Wing Dagger Squadron w/ Ion Torpedo, Extra Mun, Guidance Chip x 1

That puts me at 285 points. I have wiggle room. Any suggestions for additions/subtractions/substitutions? I've got a hardpoint free (for quad lasers?), two team slots, and a cargo slot. I was hoping to fit in Han on the CR90 but I'm out of crew slots and it'd be another 4 points to add the title that gives me one more. I was thinking about either upgrading some more of the B-Wing torps to Ions, or giving one or more of the X-Wings one, to deal with the 8-Tie swarm I know I'll be facing. I could upgrade the T-65's to T-70s, maybe? Maybe I should put Cluster Bombs on the CR90 for when the swarm gets close? As a lark I considered putting Leia in one of the B-Wings. She's probably not optimal but it could be very useful in a round where I need to K-turn with a bunch of ships. Speaking of B-Wings, I didn't use their systems slot for anything, maybe I should? Just throwing stuff out there.

I've got to leave in about an hour and a half, but if anybody has some quick suggestions, it would be welcome!

Lt. Blount (Z-95 ace) with Thread Tracers - he auto hits. Point him at the most dangerous target, and point your X-Wings at it. Free target locks for everyone. Don't forget the assault missiles to use against his swarm. Poof!

How about this?

Add Gas and Engineering Team to the CR90. Substitute Y-Wings for B-Wings, give them Proton Torps (one with an Ion) and extra mun/chips. Replace X-Wings with Blount (Assault Missiles), Tala (Assault Missiles), and Etahn with Sensor Jammer, R2D2, Ion Torp and Chips.

Less tankiness and primary weapon fire of X-Wings, but way more punch against swarms. Y-Wings don't pack the punch up close that B-Wings do, but they're cheaper. Etahn has a big target on his head but is super tanky and contributes a ton to overall damage (crits hurt imperials without shields).

This puts me at 299 points (yay initiative bid!)

Thoughts?

Replace Etan with more Z's with ordinance. He will die first round of shooting against a swarm that knows what it's doing,

Just did exactly what you are doing a few weeks ago. Looking forward to hearing how it turns out! Have fun!!

Yep. Esege does work on epic ships so load him up with recon specialist. Or you could have Han Solo crew. Biggs does not work on epic ships. And the suffering that Etahn can lay down......

If that was your first game of epic I hope both sides were focussed on having fun rather than winning because it is amazing fun win or lose.

I have a dream of slam racing to the front with 3-4 k-wings. Laying down a wall of cluster mines. Then racing back and have a beer with Sabine watching the fireworks.

Ok, I chickened out on Etahn for now. I'm zeroing in on a final build and it's looking like this:

2 x Ywing with R2, Protons/ExMun/Chips

2 x Ywing with R2, Ions/ExMun/Failsafe (I tend to roll poorly and my friend's green dice are legendary)

2 x Talas with Assault Missiles/Chips

Blount w/Veteran Instincts, Tracers

CR90 with all of the above stuff plus I had 2 points left to give it Jaina's Light title. Comes to 299.

Please keep us apprised on the game and how it went . I too am just stepping into the Epic waters myself with my son. Hope to get a game (Epic version) up and running when I get the last 3 epic ships on order sometime this week, God bless .

Most of the practical information you need to know about going to Epic games has already been covered in this thread.

There is certainly a different dynamic at play. The biggest one being that the degree of concentrated fire that can be brought to bear reverses the significance of generics vs. aces that exists in the 100-pt dogfight.

The other thing I'm going to encourage you to remember is this.... The larger the game gets, the more it becomes possible for a slightly unbalanced element to synergistically runaway with the game and turn it into a mess. Go into this with an open mind, don't care so much about victory, but let your first couple games simply be about learning how those dynamics change. After a couple run-throughs you'll start to see ways to leverage those ideas into building really cinematic fun times.

Take a look at some of the Epic scenarios in the Battle Reports thread to see what I mena.

P.S. The posters above are correct that overall, your generics will be much more effective against Epic ships than Aces (point-for-point). Many of the weapons available on Epic ships also have a harder time shooting fighters than low agility targets like freighters and other Epic ships.

My advice would be to steer clear of the Falcon, Outrider or Ghost in Epic. They tend to be easy meat for Epic ships and give up too many points. Plenty of X-wings (T65 or T70) and B-wings will burn down an Epic ship quite efficiently. A few Aces of your own may also be helpful in dealing with your opponent's fighter support but don't go overboard here.

Lastly, a few of the less-used pilots are surprisingly useful in Epic. Dutch Vander can give your Corvette Target-Locks leaving it free to use its more exotic actions while still boosting its impressive firepower.

I would agree with everything the above author states, except...

the comments about Falcon/Outrider/Ghost.

... Emphatically!

Last Epic game, I flew the following:

http://xwing-builder.co.uk/view/480130/422-to-alderaan

The two biggest killers in the game were the Outrider (Eaden Vrill + Mangler Cannon + Dash Rendar + Title) and Ghost (Hera Syndull + Dorsal Turret + Kanan Jarus + Sabine Wren + Thermal Detonators) with Phantom (Ezra Bridger) docked.

Both ships scored at least 5 TIE/Ln kills each! So don't dismiss them or think that they are too vulnerable.

As far as your CR-90, I usually put Quad lasers on the aft hardpoint for some close-in defense. I'd like to put a third Single Turbolaser but I have not had so much luck picking off enemy fighters before they get too close. Also, consider putting Cluster Bombs for a nasty, R1 surprise!

In the 100 point X-Aces game you can kinda play Star Wars a little.

In X-EPIC YOU ARE IN STAR WARS.

i say go ordnance all the way on that CR90

We had an epic league and my list never lost.

Played against a Scum swarm, TIE swarm (with raider ) and XWing swarm.

Weapons engineer on the cr90 means 2 Target locks.Homing missiles mean you dont spend the target locks.

Esege with rec spec hides behind the CR90 handing over it's 2 focus.

Ordnance experts and gunnery team mean you can convert 2 blanks to hits on the missile shots.

the third homing missile can spend a target lock on its attack and you still have a Target lock left over for your 5 die main gun.

if enemies do come into range 1, then you blow the ionization reactor, give them all damage and an ion, and run over them with their very predictable move the next turn.

4 ships firing assault missiles thins any fighters that are coming your way.

toryn farr helps deal with that 1 ace that inevitably ends up chasing you at the end of the match because it managed to get behind you, and esege cleans them up. most I ever lost was the fore on the corvette and never lost esege.

people balk at the cost of the cr90 (150).... but it just erases anything that gets in range 3. I've destroyed YV666 in 1 turn of firing.

additionally, the missile corvette doesnt need energy to fire, so you can regen shields everyturn

http://xwing-builder.co.uk/view/494047/missile-corvette

I'm about to play my first actual epic games too, but the twist is that my partner is my 6 year old son (see the thread looking for input here ).

The first plan is to go the exact opposite of most suggestions, a simple transport and some non-generics, if only to make sure he has less to track and (since I'll be helping him), I similarly have less to track too.

I gotta say that handing him a missile corvette is an interesting alternative though!

i say go ordnance all the way on that CR90

The other thing I'm going to encourage you to remember is this.... The larger the game gets, the more it becomes possible for a slightly unbalanced element to synergistically runaway with the game and turn it into a mess. Go into this with an open mind, don't care so much about victory, but let your first couple games simply be about learning how those dynamics change. After a couple run-throughs you'll start to see ways to leverage those ideas into building really cinematic fun times.

Take a look at some of the Epic scenarios in the Battle Reports thread to see what I mena.

I absolutely agree with this post! One aspect I don't like about Epic is......I'm not sure what to call it. 40k syndrome? The idea that you can build a super list to destroy the other guy's list. It's not just Epic that has that, but Epic gives you a lot more points to do it in. If you want to go with a list that is meant to win at all costs, you can do that a lot more easily with Epic. You spend a lot of time thinking about it, setting up, and getting started....and the game is over fast. One side crushes the other and it's done. It leaves a bitter taste in the mouth of whomever got beaten. It then creates an arms race to who can build the nastiest Epic list to crush the other person. That.....isn't fun to me.

I really prefer Cinematic games. One or maybe two people write up both lists. Try to make an interesting mission. Maybe have the CR-90 trying to break a blockage and escape off the other board. The Imperials are trying to blow up the CR-90 before it can get off the board. This usually means you build your lists differently. The CR-90 will want speed and the ability to heal it'self fast. The Imperials will want to go with Ion stuff and ships that can lay Mines.

Before the Raider came out, I glued two plastic plates together, stuck it on a big gulp cup, and then glued a yogurt container on that. I primed and painted it and it's now a fully operational space station! I made up rules for it. It can be any side, even Scum. I like to make all sorts of scenarios or games up that do different things. Sometimes it's about blowing up the station. Sometimes it's about chasing and capturing cargo around the station and you don't get diddly for blowing it up. Different ways to play Epic other than just bashing into and killing each other.

Make it about having fun and less about winning. That's my goal with Epic. I want an epic feel that is Star Wars-ian.

i say go ordnance all the way on that CR90

I agree, I think the Corvette makes a better missile boat than the Raider. The other support ship that works well is Dutch Vander. He allows the Corvette to acquire Target Locks (2 with the weapons engineer) without using up its action. That in turn means you can fire at full effect while still reinforcing or recovering. Automated protocols allow similar flexibility.

If you are going to try to stay the distance with the CR-90, isn't it better to go for range weapons? The missiles are only R3. Or do you not try to stay out of range?

If you are going to try to stay the distance with the CR-90, isn't it better to go for range weapons? The missiles are only R3. Or do you not try to stay out of range?

You will probably want to close the distance with a Missile-boat Corvette. Even if you hang back to pound slow targets with your primaries, the chances are that enemy fighters will be trying to close the distance to get into your Range 1-2 blind spot. A batch of homing missiles are probably a significantly greater deterrent than quad laser cannons for close-defense. You could even risk running APTs if you have Esege nearby to lend you Focus tokens.

I really prefer Cinematic games. One or maybe two people write up both lists. Try to make an interesting mission. Maybe have the CR-90 trying to break a blockage and escape off the other board. The Imperials are trying to blow up the CR-90 before it can get off the board. This usually means you build your lists differently. The CR-90 will want speed and the ability to heal it'self fast. The Imperials will want to go with Ion stuff and ships that can lay Mines.

Yeah, that's usually how I play epic too. The joy of epic is the big scenario. YOU MAKE STAR WARS HISTORY when you play EPIC!

I wasn't going to link this, because it's kind of off-topic. But the thread is pulling this way....

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/218940-the-bounty-hunters-of-ord-mantell/

I can't tell you how much fun we all had with that game!

Do you actually HAVE to take an Epic ship to participate? Could you not just field a series of small and large base ships?

Do you actually HAVE to take an Epic ship to participate? Could you not just field a series of small and large base ships?

You don't have to. I've played with a few Decimators before the Raider came out. It's OK, but not quite the same.