Hey all, I'm going to be playing my first Epic game this evening. Each side will have one huge ship (CR90 and Raider). Point limit is 300. I'll be playing Rebels. There will be two players on each side. I have a feeling that my partner may want to use his Transport as well, but I think it would be better to keep our fleet limited to one huge ship, unless you guys strongly feel otherwise. I believe I read somewhere that large ships are less point-efficient so I don't want to spend all of our points on TWO behemoths.

I only own the Tantive, and I do believe that some rules for Huge ships have changed since that ship came out. For one, I believe hardpoints start the game full of energy now, where they didn't originally. Is that correct? Are there any other important changes from the rules that I should know about? Are there any things that first-timers tend to forget or misplay?

In addition, I would like some advice on building my fleet, specifically the CR90. I can proxy any cards I don't have. For example, I'm almost positive my opponent is going to load his Raider with Ordnance Tubes and go munitions-heavy. If this is the case, what would be a good loadout for the CR90 to counter that? What would be a good way to fly to minimize the impact of his missiles?

Thanks in advance! I'll check on this thread as the day progresses.

I'd go turbolasers for the CR, with tibanna reserve and one of the gozer modifications to increase points to damage/resilience efficiency.

I'd leave aces at home and go mass generic fighters with a few exeptions like maybe Jan hidden behind the corvette.

Basic advice:

1 - You are correct, only use one huge ship maximum. Putting more than 1, especially on your first game, will benefit your opponent more than you (you'll get in your own way).

2 - Having low PS ships is important (more cannons). Do not make the mistake of only taking high PS or named pilots

3 - On a single ship, you can use missiles / torpedoes or turrets, but not both (see tip number 4).

4 - Resist the urge to put too many upgrades on a ship, especially if it has a low agility value (B-Wing). Otherwise, you just make it a tempting target and you lose a lot when it blows up.

We are just entering the semi-finals of our epic league. My opponent's list (which is a rebel one) is very simple and very dangerous: 1 transport (Bright Hope, Toryn), 6 x B-Wing with HLC, 5 x Z-95, Roark with TLT.

A very "simple" list, but a ton of HP to chew through and a LOT of firepower. That's just an example if how dangerous a fleet can be.

I believe that Hardpoints do indeed now begin the game fully charged but I cannot seem to find the FAQ reference at the moment. I am sure it is around somewhere....

Ironically, I feel launch tubes work better on the Corvette than the Raider. I prefer my Raiders kitted out for maximum energy generation so I can double fire the main weapons using the energy gained from transferring energy to the weapon hardpoints using Optimized Generators.

Epic ships cannot Focus so the only Ordnance he can fire requires Target Locks so the easiest way to make his life harder is to mess with these. If you have access to the Rebel Transport expansion then Wes Janson is quite handy as he can strip target-lock tokens from a ship he targets. Your opponent will probably have invested in Weapons Engineers to gain multiple target locks but Wes will at least help.

The other thing to do is play the Range game. Odrnance is still limited to Range 3. You Corvette has Range 5 and you can boost this further by adding up to 2 single Turbolasers to your front Hardpoints and Optimized Generators to help power them. Move forward at minimum speed to maximise your energy generation and you can potentially fire 3 volleys, each with 4 red dice per turn while your opponent's Raider is still out of Range.

If you can hurt him enough as he closes then you will give him a dilemma by the time he reaches Range 3. Does he TL to fire the Ordnance or Reinforce/Recover to keep his Raider alive.

Weapons start the game at full energy. Some quick tips

-You.must balance energy vs damage output. And define your role. First game, do it simple, soldier. Pile up three Turbolasers. Fire them all, full broadside at Range 5 if you can. You can do serious damage outside your enemy's ordnance range. Plus 5 dice main armament fire. 7 energy. Load Tibanna and you can do this twice in a row. It is VERY easy to keep a Huge in angle. Think Nelson style

-Automated Protocols OR Enhanced Generators. You want one of those.

And a large number of Generic fighters

Hi! Glad to see you taking the dive into Epic. It's a lot of fun. Make sure you get the rules for Energy down before you play. The first time is usually a mess, but you pick up on a lot of details as the game goes on. For one, I think the game is often won/lost in how and when you commit your forces. So, if someone gets creamed early on, keep at it and figure it out.

Check out the rule book on FFG for the latest rules. It has been updated and you should see all the rules in there. Here's what I think they changed:

• Full energy on hard points.
• Defender only gets +1 extra green die when shooting past Range 3. It used to be +1 per range, but it was just silly.

I think that's it. Just make sure to use the Modifications in the Gozanti for your ship. There is no reason NOT to take it. You REALLY want to use those modifications.

One thing I would recommend is to use as many generic small ships as you think you can stand. For one thing, all the special rules for all the special pilots and astromechs and EPTs ....just bog down the game or get forgotten! There is also a change in dynamics of the game in Epic. One example is Soontir Fel = he's terrible in Epic! You can't dodge all those arcs and with so many shots coming at him, he doesn't last long. So, I've generally found that expensive named guys die fast.

Try to break your ships into little squads. Leave the length of a movement template between them all. This idea makes movement easier and quicker. I'd recommend the same thing to your opponent. This way, you move your squads almost as a single unit...at least when you are thinking of how to commit them. It's just easier to figure out what those 3 X-wings there will do and those 3 X-wings there as opposed to a whole formation of 6 X-wings. The spacing between them helps when you all do the same maneuver and shouldn't bump after a move or two.

I would also highly encourage you talk to your opponent about what type of game you want. Do you want to make the most brutal "kick in your opponent's teeth" type of a list? Or more of a general one? I mean this because there are a ton of things each of you can do that are a little crazy on each side. Rebels can take Jan Ors and boost that main attack on the CR-90 for an extra attack die. That's just brutal and crazy. Captain Jonus for the Imperials is crazy for the Raider as all those secondary weapons. To me, I would say that your first game should be more about having fun than about playing with the most optimal builds possible. If you want to play that way, but your opponent picks the most aggressive and brutal combos, then it won't be a fun game for you. So, just talk to your opponents and make sure you are building a list that is about the same level.

The Raider with ion cannons is rediculous. Be careful.

P.S. The posters above are correct that overall, your generics will be much more effective against Epic ships than Aces (point-for-point). Many of the weapons available on Epic ships also have a harder time shooting fighters than low agility targets like freighters and other Epic ships.

My advice would be to steer clear of the Falcon, Outrider or Ghost in Epic. They tend to be easy meat for Epic ships and give up too many points. Plenty of X-wings (T65 or T70) and B-wings will burn down an Epic ship quite efficiently. A few Aces of your own may also be helpful in dealing with your opponent's fighter support but don't go overboard here.

Lastly, a few of the less-used pilots are surprisingly useful in Epic. Dutch Vander can give your Corvette Target-Locks leaving it free to use its more exotic actions while still boosting its impressive firepower.

You know, it makes sense from a fluff perspective kind of. You use your elite pilots in scalpel, precision missions. You use your grunts for large scale meatgrinders. That's how I see epic. The PS2 rookie pilots that survive are the ones who"level up" into the aces.

When it comes to the CR-90, you have some strategy to figure out. The CR-90 works best giving broadsides to the enemy. That means you want to be cruising along the front of the enemy line, but not letting them get too close. The Raider wants to close the distance with you as fast as possible and hit you hard. This is especially true with Ordnance Tubes, as you only have the main weapon that can go R4.

With that in mind, there are a few ways you can go. For one....you can try to time it and blast past the Raider to give it broadsides. I've not seen it done well before because that round in getting to the broadside usually cripples the CR-90. Personally, I would recommend trying to run at a distance and firing away. Not directly away, but at the side. It's a matter of trying to turn in and out of arc with the CR-90. Any upgrade that can boost your movement is always good for this. It's tricky to learn, but can be really effective when you get it. If you do go this route, it's not a bad idea to use Ion Torpedoes for your side. These guys do full damage, but zap anyone at R1 for ionization. It's fantastic when fighting off swarms of fighters or trying to control the board space. The trick with any epic ship is to not get caught for long in the crosshairs of anyone. You just suffer damage too much and die. The CR-90 is built to run.

No matter which strategy you play, you have to figure out what your support ships are going to do. Winning usually happens to the team that plays their forces all together at the right time with the right moves. Don't sacrifice your fighter escort too early or you will just be in trouble. Don't leave them too far back or at a spot on the table where they are useless or they might as well be dead. That's one reason why X-wings are awesome in epic. They are fast, durable, and can fire with 3 dice. A-wings are faster, but don't have the firepower. B-wings are more durable, but not fast enough to get where you need them to if things change. Also, Y-wings are great for Torpedo Boats.

Don't be that guy that loads up on TLT Y-wings unless you are playing that level of Epic. I wouldn't recommend it for your first game. It's just not fun when you can destroy an enemy Epic ship in 2 turns with TLT's.

Ordnance is really effective in Epic. It's tough for X-wings as they have to decide to go with Integrated Astromech or Guidance Chip. Proton Torpedoes are fantastic due to the Critical hit bonus. If you haven't looked at the critical hits for epic ships, you should. They are game changing. If you can get one in on the Raider, you will have an easier time. If you leave an Epic ship alone for long enough, it will just regen it's sheilds. So, you have to hit hard and fast. Ordnance is a great way to do just that. Oh, the Raider can out-hurt the CR-90 if you go to a straight up slug fest. I wouldn't recommend it. X-wings and Y-wings have Torpedo slots and you should use them.

Ion Torpedoes are great for Epic, as I mentioned above. You get to do the full damage and then ionize all at R1 of that target. It's great for controlling enemy ship formations. That happens a lot with enemy Tie Fighters. I will say that firing against Empire is hard due to their high agility. That's why Guidance Chips are good for Y-wings. Strip a Tie Fighter of it's token and then fire a Torpedo from a Y-wing w/ GC. You should hit. You don't have to go with all ships with Torpedoes or even Ion Torpedoes. Just some.

If you can get behind the Raider, you will do well. They can't turn well and can't fire behind you. Same goes for you, but you have a little better with your 360 turret. You can't fire through your engines, but you can slow turn and surprise the enemy that way. They move first, so it can be hard. Make sure to have some ships protecting your flanks, especially if you are going to sail on a run. Errr...sailing talk coming out. Fly in front and shoot at them as you drive by.

In Epic, it's really worth paying for PS4 or PS5 with your generic fighters - the Raider and Corvette are both PS 4 and the ability to fire (at least) simultaneously with them is really valuable. I don't recommend loading up on aces though - you end up with a juicy target that will be difficult to protect. Also, it's very easy to forget ability triggers in Epic, so try to keep the number of ability triggers you need to remember to a reasonable level.

Be very careful with your deployment in Epic, particularly with slow ships. The play area in Epic is quite large and each round can take quite a while to resolve. If you drop a squad of B-Wings in the wrong corner, it's going to be an hour or so before they get into the fight. When in doubt, put your slower ships toward the center of the board.

For a Corvette build, I like something along the lines of:

Fore
Single Turbolasers
Quad Lasers
Weapons Engineer
Sensor Team

Aft
Single Turbolasers
Shield Technician (proxy)
Backup Shield Generator

Optimized Generators (proxy)
**note: this isn't technically equipped to either section

128 points.

The Optimized Generators are the key here - you're going to be assigning energy to your weapons basically every turn anyway, so these allow you to essentially double your energy production. This means you can power your weapons and still afford to use the Recover action. Shield Technician and Backup Shield Generator both allow you to be more proactive about keeping your shields up.

When I load out my CR-90....if I'm not going with Ordnance Tubes, then I'm loading the rear Hard Point with Quad Turbo Lasers for the short range support. If you get ships close on your tail, you need to take them out. Ion Cannon Battery doesn't have the R1 support, costs more energy, and doesn't have the re-roll that you really need to clear your flanks.

For the front, if you are planning on running a line in front of them, then you want Single Turbo Laser. It will help you dish out damage to the Raider while it tries to close with you. Also, shooting at ships without Focus is not a bad tactic if you have the energy. I've killed X-wings with no Focus by shooting Single Turbo Lasers at them. Yes, Tie Fighters are more agile, but you can punch through as Ficklegreendice will tell you. Ion Cannon is also not a bad weapon for the front. It's got the range and it's brutal when it hits. The critical hit will utterly damage the enemy. You might not want to load out both hard points on the CR-90, though. You don't want to make it too expensive. That's one area you can probably skip.

If you do go with Ordnance Tubes, you will have a harder time running and gunning due to the range. Still, it's effective. I'd recommend going with Weapons Engineer and Sensor Team. Your problem will be trying to get TL's on everyone. Next, you have to figure out what Ordnance to use. Homing Missile doesn't use the TL, but only hits one person. Assault Missiles are good to blast formations of enemy fighters. Ion Torpedoes are good for controlling space and escaping lots of enemies. Plasma Torpedoes are good for removing the shields, but you will probably only see them on the Raider. Best to use something overall effective. Personally, I think you have good ordnance carriers with your small ships and you don't need it on the CR-90. Others say they like it on the CR-90 due to saving the energy for other tasks.

I would also recommend Sensor Team no matter what build you go with. The long range attack is the strength of the CR-90. You can either try to take out that enemy ship loaded with nasty stuff or start to take down the Raider's shields at a distance. Making that attack more effective is crucial.

You know, you might be able to be effective with B-wings if you have some set up in the middle and going straight. Have the CR-90 cruise across your lines and cutting in towards the right/left. Have it so that your B-wings meet up right covering the flank of the CR-90 as it passes. Imperials are fast and Interceptors are deadly. If you can have it so that the B-wings can get on the trail of the CR-90 and firing at whomever is there, that might be effective. I just don't know with their speed. It would have to be enough of them to be effective. You might be able to then send them on an intersect course against the Raider while you cut across their bow.

Did I mention a few Y-wings with Ordnance? They can be cheap and effective. Gold Squadie w/ Extra Munitions, GC, and Plasma for 23 pts. Have two or three of these guys coming from the opposite side your CR-90 is going and hopefully they will be ignored. If they get unmolested to the Raider, then you can blast it for a couple of turns. If they hit some interference, then it's stuff that isn't going after y our CR-90. Win-win.

Fore

Single Turbolasers

Quad Lasers

Weapons Engineer

Sensor Team

Aft

Single Turbolasers

Shield Technician (proxy)

Backup Shield Generator

Optimized Generators (proxy)

**note: this isn't technically equipped to either section

128 points.

I'm surprised about the Single Turbo in rear and the Quad in the front. Why in those locations? I'm thinking you know something I don't.

I'm surprised about the Single Turbo in rear and the Quad in the front. Why in those locations? I'm thinking you know something I don't.

If you have 3 points you can spare, a Construction Droid is a good buy. The ability to recover Hull as well as Shields can come in handy. Even if it only keeps the Corvette alive 1 extra turn, that is an extra turn where it can potentially do a lot of shooting.

Fore

Single Turbolasers

Quad Lasers

Weapons Engineer

Sensor Team

Aft

Single Turbolasers

Shield Technician (proxy)

Backup Shield Generator

Optimized Generators (proxy)

**note: this isn't technically equipped to either section

128 points.

I'm surprised about the Single Turbo in rear and the Quad in the front. Why in those locations? I'm thinking you know something I don't.

I probably don't

I'm just thinking that the extra reach from the Turbos makes the rear arcs relevant sooner, particularly if you're leading with your Fore section and not in a full broadside. If the Rear had an extra hardpoint, I'd put the quads there instead of the Fore just to try and deter pursuit, but I really haven't been impressed with Quad Lasers in general. Range 1-2 is pretty weak in Epic and 3 attack dice with maybe a TL on one shot isn't enough to reliably hit anything over AGI 2. Most ships are going to avoid Range 1 of an Epic ship our of fear of being run over/bumping so it's not really adding a whole lot.

In contrast, Singe Turbos average 3 hits per unmodified shot and can consistently hit AGI 2 and below. The 3-5 range band means you are going to have *something* to shoot at most turns.

I've found when you get small based ships on your tail, it's hard to get rid of them. You do have the advantage of going after they do, though. I've found a 1 turn can often get them into firing arc for Quad Turbo. It might also set them up hard next turn as they have a hard time avoiding hitting you.

If you aren't going to do a run tactic, though, then I can see the Quad in the front alright. I just find when you face the enemy and it's a Raider (and friends), you don't live long.

Use the "KISS" principle: upgrade your small ships with only a max of 1 or 2 cards.

I'd go turbolasers for the CR, with tibanna reserve and one of the gozer modifications to increase points to damage/resilience efficiency.

I'd leave aces at home and go mass generic fighters with a few exeptions like maybe Jan hidden behind the corvette.

YUP!

I've found when you get small based ships on your tail, it's hard to get rid of them. You do have the advantage of going after they do, though. I've found a 1 turn can often get them into firing arc for Quad Turbo. It might also set them up hard next turn as they have a hard time avoiding hitting you.

If you aren't going to do a run tactic, though, then I can see the Quad in the front alright. I just find when you face the enemy and it's a Raider (and friends), you don't live long.

I think you really have to rely on your fighters to keep your tail clean. You could also put a Cluster Bombs cargo on the rear as a deterrent. Corvettes are tricky since there isn't a huge angle difference between the optimal angle for attacking (broadside) and your most vulnerable angle (getting shot in the butt). Contrast with the Raider which wants to have the enemy at ~30 degrees off the front, which is much more forgiving.

I think you really have to rely on your fighters to keep your tail clean. You could also put a Cluster Bombs cargo on the rear as a deterrent. Corvettes are tricky since there isn't a huge angle difference between the optimal angle for attacking (broadside) and your most vulnerable angle (getting shot in the butt). Contrast with the Raider which wants to have the enemy at ~30 degrees off the front, which is much more forgiving.

Yeah, it can be hard for a first timer to do well with the CR-90. If you don't try it a few times, it's easy to say the Raider is more powerful. The CR-90 is more of a finesse ship and takes some practice to get it right...which is great that it's the reverse for each faction.

That's why I made a comment in one of my posts about trying it again no matter how the game goes because the first game will surely have a lot of errors and mistakes. Each time you play, you get a little quicker on the rules and game play. You get a little smarter about how to play, as well.

FYI Han Solo crew is incredibly strong for Rebel epics. Imperials have nothing equivalent.

I think you really have to rely on your fighters to keep your tail clean. You could also put a Cluster Bombs cargo on the rear as a deterrent. Corvettes are tricky since there isn't a huge angle difference between the optimal angle for attacking (broadside) and your most vulnerable angle (getting shot in the butt). Contrast with the Raider which wants to have the enemy at ~30 degrees off the front, which is much more forgiving.

Yeah, it can be hard for a first timer to do well with the CR-90. If you don't try it a few times, it's easy to say the Raider is more powerful. The CR-90 is more of a finesse ship and takes some practice to get it right...which is great that it's the reverse for each faction.

That's why I made a comment in one of my posts about trying it again no matter how the game goes because the first game will surely have a lot of errors and mistakes. Each time you play, you get a little quicker on the rules and game play. You get a little smarter about how to play, as well.

Yeah, the running joke with Epic in my area is that it's not an Epic game unless you get 2 hours into a game and then realize you've been doing at least one thing that's completely wrong/against the rules. It takes a few games to grasp just how different it is from 100 point dogfights.

I've been trying to play the Epic campaigns with various guys that haven't really done Epic, but want to. They get used to the energy and mistakes of the big ships without it going into a 2 hour mark. One guy realized it's not the best to zip the Raider forward too fast as he can't really turn around.

I played a team Epic game (200 points per player, 2 vs 2) and we got 2 hours in before I realized that both myself and my partner had Han Solo in our lists :| (I had crew, he had pilot). Crew Solo lived while Pilot Solo died so we joked that he must have been the clone. Woops.

Back to general Epic advice, I'd just point out that in Epic certain abilities/ship traits are more valuable than they are in dogfights.

In general, unmodified attacks and unmodified defense are much more common in Epic. So I'd try to pick ships that function OK without tokens. Health is more reliable than agility. Abilities that punish/reward a lack of tokens are also much more likely to trigger. Opportunist always works against Epic ships. Sensor Jammer is a guaranteed damage cancelled against most Epic ship attacks. Juke is great against fighters but won't help you against the reinforce action. Crackshot *does* work against reinforce. Cards like Countermeasures (bonus points if you remembered this card existed) are actually worth taking a look at, particularly if you know you're flying against an Ordnance Tube Raider. Ion Pulse Missiles are fantastic for shutting down energy production and preventing shield recovery.

The ability to cover distance quickly is also much more valuable. Epic ships are vulnerable from the rear (less shields, weapon blind spot, nasty crits, shut down their ability to generate energy) so ships that are able to quickly get in behind Epic ships and harass them can really earn their points quickly. A-Wings, T-70s, and large ships with boost are great for this. An Epic ship can only Recover a single section at a time so if you are putting damage on both sections they are going to have a harder time keeping their shields up.