They were good, and Kun, and the Qel-Droma brothers, are among my favorite characters from that time frame, along with Nomi Sunrider, but I mentioned the games because I sometimes feel like I'm one of the older flunkies on here, when I'm probably not, and that's why I often mention how things used to be, like the original Clone Wars, the real backstory of Boba Fett, and other stuff that either George Lucas, as the owner of the copyright, or Hollywood, also to make a buck, changed them to what we have now, and while there might be some people here considerably older than I am, who did read those old comics, I assume there are also plenty of younger people who take the movies, and the TCW cartoon, as the original, only line, and thus the right one (only partly), and anythingt hey might know about older material is just learned from Wookieepedia, or some such, and even this get mega-editted when Disney torched the Expanded Universe, to some extent, and altered what was, to what it now is. Umm...a point? Oh, yeah, but the KOTOR video games were popular, and on a console almost everyone, other than me, had (support Nintendo and Sony ), and PC, so a lot of people did play them, even if Star Wars might not've been their usual thing. While it wasn't the second coming, certainly, and the second one (better, in my mind) wasn't even a complete second game , I often feel that, like Shadows of the Empire, it was a good indicator that there was still interest, and it created more, becoming among the most popular games Star Wars was ever with. I won't sit here and belittle the MMO (that I'm currently playing) by claiming that KOTOR III would've been so much better, and only got skipped because, at the time, everyone wanted to have an MMORPG, but for many people, these are about as far back as their knowledge of Star Wars, excluding movies not made in their own lifetimes, goes, and it's sort of weird to focus on the MMO, which tells eight separate, and probably three good, stories(your mileage will certainly vary), when KOTOR I and II each told a solid story, and we all knew what it was.

Considering I'm about to turn 40 this year, and at least one person on this site has stated they are in their 50's, as well as several people in my "What Sold You On Star Wars" thread said "When I saw New Hope in 1976 as an 8 year old"....I'm confident you are not the only Old Fart on this site

Considering I'm about to turn 40 this year, and at least one person on this site has stated they are in their 50's, as well as several people in my "What Sold You On Star Wars" thread said "When I saw New Hope in 1976 as an 8 year old"....I'm confident you are not the only Old Fart on this site

Dunno if I'd describe myself as that (I'd sooner see myself as a Cool Old Lady Gamer...), but I'm 46. I know mouthymerc is older and I think whafrog might be.

Hey, I'll prove it, because 'things were better back in the day', you young whippersnappers with your cartoons and 'Force Awakens' nonsense:

I saw 'Star Wars' when I was 7 and it was definitely called that.

Who thinks up these things? 'Empire Strikes Back'. Cool! 'Return of the Jedi'. Also cool. 'Star Wars' . Hell yes.

'Attack of the Clones'. Cheesy, but at least it has a Buck Rogers, 70's retro vibe. 'Phantom Menace'. What the kriff? I don't even -

'A New Hope'. Right, like I want to see some mid-90's 'romantic comedy' starring Tom Hanks and Sandra Bulloch...

/old lady rant off/

The Knights of the Old Republic comics (not Tales of the Jedi - about Zayne Carrick, not Ulic Qel-Droma and Exar Kun) were actually amazing, and a great look at Force Rating 1 characters as a primary protagonist.

And learning, as you go rules.(How else do you describe their terrible misfourtane, I mean, no GM has THAT many Darkside DPs.)

Considering I'm about to turn 40 this year, and at least one person on this site has stated they are in their 50's, as well as several people in my "What Sold You On Star Wars" thread said "When I saw New Hope in 1976 as an 8 year old"....I'm confident you are not the only Old Fart on this site

Dunno if I'd describe myself as that (I'd sooner see myself as a Cool Old Lady Gamer...), but I'm 46. I know mouthymerc is older and I think whafrog might be.

Hey, I'll prove it, because 'things were better back in the day', you young whippersnappers with your cartoons and 'Force Awakens' nonsense:

I saw 'Star Wars' when I was 7 and it was definitely called that.

Who thinks up these things? 'Empire Strikes Back'. Cool! 'Return of the Jedi'. Also cool. 'Star Wars' . Hell yes.

'Attack of the Clones'. Cheesy, but at least it has a Buck Rogers, 70's retro vibe. 'Phantom Menace'. What the kriff? I don't even -

'A New Hope'. Right, like I want to see some mid-90's 'romantic comedy' starring Tom Hanks and Sandra Bulloch...

/old lady rant off/

I was 6 when I saw a new hope, so you could easily have been my older sister, but at our age I wouldnt describe either of us as old, while the bodywork is out of shape I still feel like a giddy kid every time I make up a new character to play or when a set piece works while gming the game

Dunno if I'd describe myself as that (I'd sooner see myself as a Cool Old Lady Gamer...), but I'm 46. I know mouthymerc is older and I think whafrog might be.

53...and I love the prequels

The KOTOR comic, along with Legacy (volume 1...volume 2 was trash), were one of the few comics I could get through, really well done. I'm not really a comic reader, the only comics of any genre that have blown me away were Neil Gaiman's Sandman and Black Orchid. KOTOR and Legacy aren't at that level, but definitely up there.

Eh, I vaguely remember those. Something about some brothers who were both force users, one got his arm chopped off, but he ends up making himself a new one with a box of scraps! in a junkyard! using the Force! *said in Jeff Bridges voice* I think I'm remembering them right. Same answer for that as I have for KOTOR. I remember them, didn't really knock my socks off, didn't maintain them in long term memory.

Oh it wasn't a comment meant to imply that you need to have read the series or liked it. I'm just always amused when people try to go back to the KOTOR video games without taking us all the way back to where that entire era got it's start in the first place.

Eh, I vaguely remember those. Something about some brothers who were both force users, one got his arm chopped off, but he ends up making himself a new one with a box of scraps! in a junkyard! using the Force! *said in Jeff Bridges voice* I think I'm remembering them right. Same answer for that as I have for KOTOR. I remember them, didn't really knock my socks off, didn't maintain them in long term memory.

Oh it wasn't a comment meant to imply that you need to have read the series or liked it. I'm just always amused when people try to go back to the KOTOR video games without taking us all the way back to where that entire era got it's start in the first place.

that's fine, was just commenting about those, as I honestly forgot about them. Though now I'm thinking I never read those, and just read Tales of the Jedi? *shrugs* I've avoided about 99% of the EU about Star Wars, because what I did read, mostly wasn't that good in my opinion. So I didn't feel inclined to spend my money on it. And what I did read, was back in the 90's early 2000's, and I've since dumped it from long term memory.

Eh, I vaguely remember those. Something about some brothers who were both force users, one got his arm chopped off, but he ends up making himself a new one with a box of scraps! in a junkyard! using the Force! *said in Jeff Bridges voice* I think I'm remembering them right. Same answer for that as I have for KOTOR. I remember them, didn't really knock my socks off, didn't maintain them in long term memory.

Oh it wasn't a comment meant to imply that you need to have read the series or liked it. I'm just always amused when people try to go back to the KOTOR video games without taking us all the way back to where that entire era got it's start in the first place.

that's fine, was just commenting about those, as I honestly forgot about them. Though now I'm thinking I never read those, and just read Tales of the Jedi? *shrugs* I've avoided about 99% of the EU about Star Wars, because what I did read, mostly wasn't that good in my opinion. So I didn't feel inclined to spend my money on it. And what I did read, was back in the 90's early 2000's, and I've since dumped it from long term memory.

I understand that. I typically found Dark Horse to be one of the better EU writers of that time. But I get that. I was not a particular fan of a lot of the novels (such as the NGO period, though I do like the idea of Vong just hated their use).

I understand that. I typically found Dark Horse to be one of the better EU writers of that time. But I get that. I was not a particular fan of a lot of the novels (such as the NGO period, though I do like the idea of Vong just hated their use).

Yeah, I've heard the rage over the Vong, and while I'd probably agree it's not written well, at least they tried something new That's more than you can say for a lot of the Star Wars stuff out there. Plus, the Babylon 5 fan in me just can't ever truly hate living ships. "We Are All Kosh!"

Yeah, I've heard the rage over the Vong, and while I'd probably agree it's not written well, at least they tried something new That's more than you can say for a lot of the Star Wars stuff out there.

I've said it on here before, that the Vong weren't a bad concept in themselves, just in execution, mostly because they were turned up to 11.

A lot of people feel that the SW novels had got kind of stale at that point and they needed radically new antagonists, but because of some mix-up, the 'angsty-pain-loving-emo-goth' Vong became the whole species instead of just one faction of them.

Yeah, I've heard the rage over the Vong, and while I'd probably agree it's not written well, at least they tried something new That's more than you can say for a lot of the Star Wars stuff out there.

I've said it on here before, that the Vong weren't a bad concept in themselves, just in execution, mostly because they were turned up to 11.

A lot of people feel that the SW novels had got kind of stale at that point and they needed radically new antagonists, but because of some mix-up, the 'angsty-pain-loving-emo-goth' Vong became the whole species instead of just one faction of them.

More like a whole galaxy

I've said it before, but the best thing about Vong is that they paved the way for the Legacy comics.

I really disliked the whole idea of the Vong, because they're just another form of kryptonite.

I've said it before, but the best thing about Vong is that they paved the way for the Legacy comics.

I once did a campaign set in the Legacy era but had a mass outbreak of the rakghoul plague (and some really bad attempts at cures) ravage the galaxy instead of the Vong. Basically one Dark Jedi with the Muur Talisman baited the Republic and Imperial Remnant into a major battle which infected troops by the thousands, and then he started brining the plague world to world.

The setting was post-dystopia, with the Galaxy starting to come back from all the damage slowly.

I've said it before, but the best thing about Vong is that they paved the way for the Legacy comics.

I once did a campaign set in the Legacy era but had a mass outbreak of the rakghoul plague (and some really bad attempts at cures) ravage the galaxy instead of the Vong. Basically one Dark Jedi with the Muur Talisman baited the Republic and Imperial Remnant into a major battle which infected troops by the thousands, and then he started brining the plague world to world.

The setting was post-dystopia, with the Galaxy starting to come back from all the damage slowly.

That sounds like it could be a lot of fun.

I may have to steal that.

I liked the Vong because they weren't just one more Sith Lord, wherever he was, while other people crushed the galaxy, who miraculously has an army larger than the good guys, and a fleet of ships literally spun out of the aether. I also liked how they were not part of the Force, which meant that the rest of the galaxy was as relevant, when it came to fighting them. Having said that, yeah, they got ridiculous, bringing their entire race along, with ships the size of planets, and the ability to transplant their biological Force-immunity to their biotech. They did have some interesting bits, but you had to pick the corn out of...um, sorry, I'll quit there.

I also agree that it was nice of them to bring on Legacy, which is a setting I'm very fond of, and feel this game could easily do, as it has a similar field of "what the Jedi were is lost", which this game sort of likes, in my opinion. Legacy and KOTOR are probably my favorite points in the Star Wars universe.

I've said it before, but the best thing about Vong is that they paved the way for the Legacy comics.

I once did a campaign set in the Legacy era but had a mass outbreak of the rakghoul plague (and some really bad attempts at cures) ravage the galaxy instead of the Vong. Basically one Dark Jedi with the Muur Talisman baited the Republic and Imperial Remnant into a major battle which infected troops by the thousands, and then he started brining the plague world to world.

The setting was post-dystopia, with the Galaxy starting to come back from all the damage slowly.

That sounds like it could be a lot of fun.

I may have to steal that.

Me too.

Haha, you guys are welcome to steal the plot... If I recall correctly (it's been a long while since d20), the villain was somehow able to infect a lot of bacta with the virus, further spreading it beyond his personal reach. The Republic had to quarantine whole worlds that destroyed themselves while waiting for a cure. The Empire just opted for orbital bombardment, which was safer.

The aftermath looked a lot like the Legacy comics, except that there is a cure (however rare an expensive). The Empire and Republic were weakened, and the Chiss Ascendancy (the Fels) stepped in, crushing what was left of the Republic's hold on most worlds. The Jedi vanished after the plague and war decimated their ranks and the Sith (unaffected by the plague on Korriban) quit biding their time and attacked.

And if you want the weird, wild frontiers of planets half terra formed by the Vong, just say a "cure" accidentally altered the mutative properties of the disease and it began messing with plants too.

I really disliked the whole idea of the Vong, because they're just another form of kryptonite.

I agree; this was the other thing that was wrong with them.

By this point, the interesting, flawed Jedi of the movies had been transformed into superhuman Asgardian gods, and the writers had essentially painted themselves into a corner because they were overpowered.

So the Vong felt like a bad GM introducing broken foes to try to correct PCs that he'd let get out of control.

But the concept of a new enemy, a galaxy-wide invasion by beings that truly felt alien to what we'd seen... that wasn't necessarily bad in concept, just execution. At that point, the stories needed a shake-up, something more than the tired old tropes of another superweapon, another new incarnation of the Empire, another jedi 'falling to the dark side'.

(Nonetheless I opted to do away with them in my game - I could reworked them into something cool like D&D's githyanki, but they had too much baggage...)

Mind you, the reason they needed some form of kryponite was because they had inflated the abilities of jedi to the point where they were supermen.

(Nonetheless I opted to do away with them in my game - I could reworked them into something cool like D&D's githyanki, but they had too much baggage...)

I like the Githyanki. Had an idea at one time to adapt the Githyanki Invasion stuff in Dragon and Dungeon for a Star Wars campaign as a Sith faction returning to retake the galaxy from the Unknown region. This idea was before they did the lost Tribe series of stories. Instead of silver swords they would wield glassteel-like swords made from a crystal like substance. Was going to borrow all kinds of concepts. Actually adapted many of the Githyanki and creature stats to the d20 Star Wars version (Revised edition) using much of the Dark side sourcebook. Adapted the githyanki ship stats too. May have to revisit it and do some adaptions for the new system.

Mind you, the reason they needed some form of kryponite was because they had inflated the abilities of jedi to the point where they were supermen.

Agreed.

Most authors seemed to confuse the Force with typical fantasy magic and that it could do anything the plot required. While some may not like his writing or certain characters of his, one thing Timothy Zahn generally did was keep Luke within the general realm of what we saw the Force be used for in the original movies.

Mind you, the reason they needed some form of kryponite was because they had inflated the abilities of jedi to the point where they were supermen.

Agreed.

Most authors seemed to confuse the Force with typical fantasy magic and that it could do anything the plot required. While some may not like his writing or certain characters of his, one thing Timothy Zahn generally did was keep Luke within the general realm of what we saw the Force be used for in the original movies.

I've been listening to the thrawn trilogy lately...they say a lot of things sardonically...a lot of things...

I totally agree though. Force = Magic is a pitfall that can really Bork things up if you aren't careful. It's just as true for a GM as a novelist....

Mind you, the reason they needed some form of kryponite was because they had inflated the abilities of jedi to the point where they were supermen.

Agreed.

Most authors seemed to confuse the Force with typical fantasy magic and that it could do anything the plot required. While some may not like his writing or certain characters of his, one thing Timothy Zahn generally did was keep Luke within the general realm of what we saw the Force be used for in the original movies.

Well it's not like Lucas ever put down any concrete rules about what the Force could/couldn't do. And he frequently used it for anything the plot required too. I mean, I agree with your statement, but there's hardly a "Force Powers for Dummies" book out there that is canon that they are disregarding or something