So I have been actively scanning the stats from Regionals and I am very surprised from the almost complete lack of Mon Mothma lists. In theory, this commander seems to pair incredibly well with the CR90, MC30, and even Nebs by shoring up their weaknesses and keeping them in the fight longer.

Now full disclosures, I have only ran a MM list a few times on vassal, so I am by no means an expert. But both times I ran the list it performed pretty well. In theory a high bid (i.e. 18 + points) MM list seems like it should do pretty well. It looks like MM only represets 5% of the total lists ran at regionals and all of those lists have placed in the bottom 13%.

Is there some reason I am missing that these lists are nonexistent/performing so badly? Or is it just a matter of bad play/lists by those running her combined with lack of veterans running her? What I am really trying to say, is with the right list and person running it, could a MM list perform better in a competitive setting? Say: 2 MC30's with titles, OE, and APTs, and some combo of CR90's with either TRCs or a CR90a TRC, CR90b SW, and Salvation.

I have run lists with Mon Mothma a lot. e.g.

Yavaris, Salvation, 3 Nebs, 3Bwing, Wedge, Dutch

Yavaris, Salvation, Neb, MC30, 3Ywing, Han, Dash.

She is better with CR90s and MC30s which have the second evade. When mainly using Nebs I find the enemy don't accuracy your braces (as you have 2 per ship) so the evade gets effected and Mon Mothma ends up granting little benefit. I think Rieekan might be better to try.

The new commander, General Cracken, in wave 3 may make her even less relevant granting a similar effect to small ships but more reliably, cheaply and less vulnerable to accuracies. But then I like to run Nebs more slowly to stay near the B-wings.

I've been surprised as well as I won a Store Championships with MM and think that she can be really effective.

The sample size is too small to worry about her performance, but it is surprising she isn't being played much. The same could be said for Vader. I think Vader is great, but he is only being used sparingly so far.

I've been surprised as well as I won a Store Championships with MM and think that she can be really effective.

The sample size is too small to worry about her performance, but it is surprising she isn't being played much. The same could be said for Vader. I think Vader is great, but he is only being used sparingly so far.

And you got a ringer like McMann running around driving up all the Vader stats haha.

I will definitely be running her at our local regional.

Mon Mothma is bad and she should feel bad.

I kid, but seriously, I hate running Mon Mothma. I've never gotten her to be worth 30 points for me, either wave 1 or 2. She's a nice perk, but I really think she's overpriced.

I think part of the dearth of MM that we're seeing is due to Rieekan. He's a direct drop-in replacement for Mon Mothma points-wise, works well in exactly the same fleets she does (plus several others), doesn't lose his benefit if you use TRC's and Admonition, isn't dependent on luck to work, and (I personally think) his ability is straight-out better. Given that most fleets you would want to run Mon Mothma include one or both of TRC and Admonition, I think Rieekan is just the better choice right now.

My entire and only goal is to see poor unused Vader in the top four list always

My entire and only goal is to see poor unused Vader in the top four list always

As soon as one of you gives me some data from Indy, I can put that in.

I think it's a combination of Demolisher popularity and the Rieekan counter-movement to Demolisher. Mon Mothma doesn't do all that much for you when Demolisher rolls up for it's triple tap. Successful Rebel players are switching over to Rieekan, which keeps the ship executed by Demolisher in the game for that much longer. If we see Demolisher-centric play go down, Mon Mothma has a chance of making a comeback. However, Cracken is going to work well for the same types of fleets, so the chances are likely to be slim.

None of you mention the obvious.

Its very expensive to physically amass the number of ships, trcs, intel officer etc to run a mothma fleet.

Because I can't figure out a strong list where I wouldn't rather have Rieekan.

MM is good, but not good enough.

Having played both quite a bit lately that's my overall conclusion.

I think MM still has her uses. To be honest, there are times where I've had a list that would suit either commander and I've gone for Mothma.

My view is that - especially in MC30 lists with a good initiative bid - Mothma is more helpful than Rieeken.

Some people think "Yay! Rieeken! Now I can keep all my main ships back until the end of the round then unleash hell, even if I'm dead!". In the end though, Rieeken himself does nothing to prevent your ships from dying, he just prolongs their existance.

But, MM can keep your ships alive with her evade boost and then (if you have the initiative) at the start of the following round you may find you have a handy MC30 ready for a double-arc at close range before you wheel away into the sunset...

If this was Rieeken, you may be already dead by this point.

Just a bit of support for MM. I think she will find her uses in wave 3 with those evades on the Flotillas though.

Man, I love this game. People can play the same stuff and come to different conclusions.

I have been messing a lot with Rieekan and Mon Mothma as well and found myself really leaning toward her instead. I'm not saying you're right or I'm right or anything, its just really cool that our experiences can differ so much in playing the same game.

I do like MM better vs. Rhymerballs, which seem to have been doing well.

The ability to straight cancel dice at medium range really reduces the benefit of Rhymer.

I think part of the prevalence of Rhymer winning is the equal lack of Mothma.

None of you mention the obvious.

Its very expensive to physically amass the number of ships, trcs, intel officer etc to run a mothma fleet.

Mon Mothma: Admiral of the 1%?

My conclusion on Mothma vs Rieekan

Mothma likes initiative, Rieekan is happy without.

And with DeMSU about... but that shouldnt really be a reason not to run a Mothma list with approx 15 pt bid. Underbidding all but DeMSU.

I do like MM better vs. Rhymerballs, which seem to have been doing well.

The ability to straight cancel dice at medium range really reduces the benefit of Rhymer.

I think part of the prevalence of Rhymer winning is the equal lack of Mothma.

None of you mention the obvious.

Its very expensive to physically amass the number of ships, trcs, intel officer etc to run a mothma fleet.

Mon Mothma: Admiral of the 1%?

Absolutely! With my 3VSD Rhymerball list I would much rather see Rieekan than Mon Mothma!

Attached is a Mothma list I am considering taking to an upcoming regionals. Would love to get some of your guys input on it as I usually play Imperials. I'll be taking it to league today, I'll let you know how it goes.

Mothma's Token Destroyers

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 384/400

Commander: Mon Mothma

Assault Objective: Most Wanted
Defense Objective: Hyperspace Assault
Navigation Objective: Intel Sweep

MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63 points)
- Admonition ( 8 points)
- Intel Officer ( 7 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- XI7 Turbolasers ( 6 points)
- Expanded Launchers ( 13 points)

MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63 points)
- Foresight ( 8 points)
- Lando Callriassian ( 4 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- XI7 Turbolasers ( 6 points)
- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)

CR90 Corvette B (39 points)
- Jainas Light ( 2 points)
- Engine Techs ( 8 points)
- NK-7 Ion Cannons ( 10 points)

CR90 Corvette B (39 points)
- Engine Techs ( 8 points)
- NK-7 Ion Cannons ( 10 points)

[ flagship ] CR90 Corvette B (39 points)
- Mon Mothma ( 30 points)
- Engine Techs ( 8 points)

I do like MM better vs. Rhymerballs, which seem to have been doing well.

The ability to straight cancel dice at medium range really reduces the benefit of Rhymer.

I think part of the prevalence of Rhymer winning is the equal lack of Mothma.

I won't argue with this one bit. We're all so focused on DeMSU, but we continue to ignore the Rhymer trend. I'm curious if that trend continues through the Regionals.

I think going forward MM will best fit a list with lots of mc30 torpedo frigates, where she can make their double evades worth something up close, but unneeded for TRCs. I feel like Cracken will take over the TRC90 swarm since they're happy staying at long range and MM does nothing for long range. Time to get cracking on a MM triple torpedo boat list with a couple flotillas in support =)

Attached is a Mothma list I am considering taking to an upcoming regionals. Would love to get some of your guys input on it as I usually play Imperials. I'll be taking it to league today, I'll let you know how it goes.

Mothma's Token Destroyers

Faction: Rebel Alliance

Points: 384/400

Commander: Mon Mothma

Assault Objective: Most Wanted

Defense Objective: Hyperspace Assault

Navigation Objective: Intel Sweep

MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63 points)

- Admonition ( 8 points)

- Intel Officer ( 7 points)

- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)

- XI7 Turbolasers ( 6 points)

- Expanded Launchers ( 13 points)

MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63 points)

- Foresight ( 8 points)

- Lando Callriassian ( 4 points)

- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)

- XI7 Turbolasers ( 6 points)

- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)

CR90 Corvette B (39 points)

- Jainas Light ( 2 points)

- Engine Techs ( 8 points)

- NK-7 Ion Cannons ( 10 points)

CR90 Corvette B (39 points)

- Engine Techs ( 8 points)

- NK-7 Ion Cannons ( 10 points)

[ flagship ] CR90 Corvette B (39 points)

- Mon Mothma ( 30 points)

- Engine Techs ( 8 points)

First of all I don't like the engine techs or the NK-7s on the CR90Bs. If you had a way to guarantee the crits (like Screed with Imps), it would be one thing. As it stands, you're probably better off with SW-7s. I've seen that play well if you can line up the double arcs. Use the points saved to get yourself some squadron cover. You can get a pair of YT-2400s with the points spent on those upgrades, which would be a welcome upgrade to your naked approach.

Bummer, I kinda liked the idea of ganging up on a ship and stripping it of all of its defense tokens. I had also been thinking that Mothma would be able to do most of the heavy lifting mitigating damage from a squadron ball. Maybe I'll make those changes for today but keep track of how many blue crits they typically throw to see if it would be effective. And I think the engine techs were a holdover from when I had Rieekan as the commander. Plus I like how they operate on my 4 gladiator list, very useful for arc dodging and lining up double arcs.

Bummer, I kinda liked the idea of ganging up on a ship and stripping it of all of its defense tokens. I had also been thinking that Mothma would be able to do most of the heavy lifting mitigating damage from a squadron ball. Maybe I'll make those changes for today but keep track of how many blue crits they typically throw to see if it would be effective. And I think the engine techs were a holdover from when I had Rieekan as the commander. Plus I like how they operate on my 4 gladiator list, very useful for arc dodging and lining up double arcs.

I really want to like the NK7 more too. I just can't justify their cost for Rebels. Screed for Imperials has to potential to make them awesome, but Rebels have no such luxury. A CR90 with a navigate command is just as maneuverable as a Glad with ETs, so they're more of a luxury investment. Mon Mothma will absolutely help against a squadron ball, but it can't be your only defense. In my opinion you need to at least be able to keep squadrons honest. Otherwise they can close the distance with impunity, limiting Mon Mothma's effect to just forcing a re-roll rather than outright negating.

Attached is a Mothma list I am considering taking to an upcoming regionals. Would love to get some of your guys input on it as I usually play Imperials. I'll be taking it to league today, I'll let you know how it goes.

Mothma's Token Destroyers

Faction: Rebel Alliance

Points: 384/400

Commander: Mon Mothma

Assault Objective: Most Wanted

Defense Objective: Hyperspace Assault

Navigation Objective: Intel Sweep

MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63 points)

- Admonition ( 8 points)

- Intel Officer ( 7 points)

- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)

- XI7 Turbolasers ( 6 points)

- Expanded Launchers ( 13 points)

MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63 points)

- Foresight ( 8 points)

- Lando Callriassian ( 4 points)

- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)

- XI7 Turbolasers ( 6 points)

- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)

CR90 Corvette B (39 points)

- Jainas Light ( 2 points)

- Engine Techs ( 8 points)

- NK-7 Ion Cannons ( 10 points)

CR90 Corvette B (39 points)

- Engine Techs ( 8 points)

- NK-7 Ion Cannons ( 10 points)

[ flagship ] CR90 Corvette B (39 points)

- Mon Mothma ( 30 points)

- Engine Techs ( 8 points)

Disclaimer: I'm just kind of thinking out loud with the below. If it were me, I would have built this list as Rieekan with SW90B's, ACM MC30's, and a light squadron cover. So take my conclusions with a grain of salt, but consider my reasoning.

Your CR90B's will put way more stress on defense tokens--and much more reliably--with SW7 than with NK-7's. Practice getting double arcs with them (it's easy, the arc line is at 45* and you have double clicks at the end of every speed), then CF whenever you do and use it on your side arc shot to give you 2x3-damage shots. Taking large amounts of damage in packets of 3 is brutal on defense tokens, and will force them to use those tokens on those weak little shots or sit there and weather up to 18 damage (depending how many double arcs you lined up) undefended... and nothing can weather that without defense tokens.

All that said, SW90B's do not synergize with XI7 at all. XI7 is all about punching through shields despite the presence of redirects; SW90B's are all about overwhelming the target with efficient but less "punchy" damage. What I see happening is that your target is going to face zero downside from the MC30 XI7s by simply redirecting your CR90B shots instead. What will synergize is ACM on both MC30s, which will punish them for having redirected off that CR90B damage (that they had no choice but to redirect) and save you points (ACM=7, APT+XI7=11, ExL+XI7=19). On top of which, you'll probably end up with more damage on the target with them than with your current build.

Also, the SW90B really needs Rieekan to be effective. They really need a blocker to hold the target in place to keep it in all those double arcs you so painstakingly lined up. Very often, that blocker will die, but if you're trading it up for an ISD, MC80, or the carrier that's pushing around the Rhymerball, that's a very good trade--it just really, really has to not die that turn, to give you time to unload into your target.

Definitely agree that, regardless, you should really drop the engine techs. Bank a nav token on turn 1, then learn to line up the nav commands whenever you'll need them (very very easy on a command 1 CR90). You mention having liked them on the Glad to arc dodge/line up double arcs: remember that the biggest advantages they give the GSD (the double-click on the last notch and speed 4), the CR90 has natively anyway.

Jaina's Light is mostly useful in this list as Dangerous Territory insurance: if your opponent brings DT, you have a free objective you can pick and break even on even if red and yellow are terrible. You won't often run into a situation where you need the obstruction effect with the CR90B (not to say it doesn't happen, just not often). If that's worth the 2 points to you, keep it; otherwise, drop it. FWIW, I virtually always take Jaina's if I'm taking a CR90, just as DT insurance.

Then I'd take all the points you'd save from my recommendations above, and bring a couple of squadrons. And remember: CR90's can push squadrons. They're not good at it, but they don't lose much in doing it; sometimes it's worth using a token+command to push a pair of X-wings for an alpha strike.

I had originally composed this list with Rieekan as commander, that was why I had the ET on the cr90's; when they would eventually get blown up, they could go out in a blaze of glory double ramming. I think also I was planning on running this list differently than you had been envisioning. It seems that you would send in the CR90's first and follow up with the Torps as the finishing blow. I had kinda been planning on doing the opposite, charging in with the MC30's (like I would with a glad) to cause mayhem before running off prior to being shot at, then pick at the scraps with the CR90's who would be positioned as a sort of net that people would be forced to run into. I'll let you guys know how that plan works out for me haha

So my thinking is in order for MM to really shine you have to push a high initiative bid, say like 16+ points to ensure you get first swing. Setting up a double arc with a MC30 at the end of the turn, unleashing it on the next turn, and skating away is invaluable. And it has the added benefit of negating the triple tap. Let that Demo chase you around the map.

I have been playing a Rieekan list, but I really want to make MM work to put her in the top bracket for the upcoming regionals. What about doing a list like this, to capitalize on long/medium range TRC shots while sending in my MC30's to do the heavy hitting:

REBEL FLEET 381/400

1 • CR90 Corellian Corvette A - CR90 Corellian Corvette (44) - Mon Mothma (30) - Lando Calrissian (4) - Turbolaser Reroute Circuits (7) - Jaina's Light (2)
• Total : 87 • Code : r1c4o16t7f6
2 • CR90 Corellian Corvette A - CR90 Corellian Corvette (44) - Turbolaser Reroute Circuits (7)
• Total : 51 • Code : r1t7
3 • CR90 Corellian Corvette A - CR90 Corellian Corvette (44) - Turbolaser Reroute Circuits (7)
• Total : 51 • Code : r1t7
4 • MC30c Torpedo Frigate - MC30c (63) - Ordnance Experts (4) - Assault Proton Torpedoes (5) - Admonition (8)
• Total : 80 • Code : r17w5n4f17
5 • MC30c Torpedo Frigate - MC30c (63) - Ordnance Experts (4) - Assault Proton Torpedoes (5) - Foresight (8)
• Total : 80 • Code : r17w5n4f18
6 • YT-2400 - YT-2400 (16)
• Total : 16 • Code : r23
7 • YT-2400 - YT-2400 (16)
• Total : 16 • Code : r23
8 • Objectives - Objectives (0) - Most Wanted (0) - Hyperspace Assault (0) - Intel Sweep (0)
• Total : 0 • Code : r0a2a8a9

I think also I was planning on running this list differently than you had been envisioning.

Ah, it does seem so. I love how two people can look at the same list and form completely opposite ideas of how to play it--and both are legitimate!

In that case, I would definitely forego the NK-7's, since at best you'll be getting their effect too late to matter much.

I've been running MM a lot lately. I won a small local tournament a week ago but was 13 of 16 with that list at regionals. Some poor objective selection messed me up at the regionals, but then used the same list to beat Rieekan and Motti ISD lists the next week. My fleet was CR90s and MC30s and am confident with it vs all save a low bid DeMSU. MM just takes a lot of patience. You won't feel like you're winning till turn 5 and 6.