First I live in Southern California, and we are fortunate in much the same as I have seen someone mention Portland is to have lots and lots of game stores locally. I just recently moved and one of my major gripes about the new house, which elicited many exaggerated eye rolls from my wife, was the fact that the nearest game store is now a 20 minute drive instead of a 5 minute drive. If I increased my drive time to 30 minutes there are about 4 additional game stores that would be in range. That said, I was somewhat spoiled before as the "5-minutes away" game store had a large gaming room, hosted Armada regionals, etc etc and the new one is a hole in the wall in a strip mall with a game tables crammed in the middle of the shop floor. Previously there were always people playing, now I am stuck posting the shops OP Facebook group and hoping someone else who plays is willing turning out in the limited time I get in my schedule to squeeze a game in.

I now play most of my games on my kitchen table against myself, which I am finding is roughly 90% less fun than playing against anyone other than myself.

I love armada, it is by far my favorite Minis game to play, but it in no way can sustain my gaming appetite alone, there just is't a meta for it.

I really feel like there should be a yet at the end of that sentence... But perhaps I am a dreamer.

The game has been out a year.

My local Gaming nerds are either:

A.) Super Cheap

B.) Sheople

C.) Exclusive

D.) FOTM gamers

Super Cheap - they wont by a game that will cost more than $200. Right now Guildball is all the rage right now in my store. Its cheap to get into and has a low model count. People like it enjoy and wont touch Armada due to the price tag (despite owning $1000 in guildball, go figure)

Sheople - The King Nerd said a game is bad so it must be bad. We have one person who has too much say in the community and everyone wants to polish his proverbial knob for whatever reason. He says a game is good it takes off, he says its bad it flounders. The store owner loved it before the King Nerds latest kick has been LCGs over minis and now the store is close to closing due to lost revenue. Turns out 10 people supporting and LCG is no where near the same income as 10 people supporting a WarMachine habit.

Exclusive - as mentioned before. Certain people only play certain people due to whatever reason they want. I get that some people can be a negative play experience.

FOTM Gamers - Flavor of the Month Gamer is self explanatory..... ohh a piece a candy, ohh a piece of candy. They are a store owners wet dream as they buy buy buy and never play.

My store owner is also really lazy. He does nothing to support communities and only supports the games he plays.

These are the reasons I will never have a healthy Armada meta...... hence my lack of yet. I am also at a point in my life where traveling to cons all the time is no longer realistic. I am going to regionals this Sunday, and even if i win I will most likely skip nationals due to cost of house renovations.... somethings take priority.

If flotillas are the only thing they are releasing then the game deserves to die

If flotillas are the only thing they are releasing then the game deserves to die

Yes, Flotillas are the only thing they are releasing from now until the end of time when the sun explodes and what remains of our subatomic vapourisation is blasted to all corners of the universe.

So you can feel vindicated in your sentiment now.

But I'll be happily playing over here.

In closing.

Have a FANTASTIC day.

My local Gaming nerds are either:

A.) Super Cheap

B.) Sheople

C.) Exclusive

D.) FOTM gamers

Tell me more about your local gaming nerds. How big is your town? How many gaming groups are there locally? (within say, an hour?) What sort of games do they normally play? You mentioned LCGs, which is a red flag for me for people who are less likely to appreciate a game like Armada. Are there any groups that used to (or still do) play 40k or Warmachine or games like that? I find they're generally more open to games like Armada.

If flotillas are the only thing they are releasing then the game deserves to die

Rubbish.

Are you doing anything that you think could be pushing them away?

That is a downside of having aspergers, I don't really know.

Even if you didn't have Aspergers it would be tough to tell.

Still, from what I have seen, I do think you've made some diplomatic mistakes:

• You disparage X-Wing pretty vociferously. While that clearly is your honest opinion, telling people that the thing they love is junk is not an effective way of enticing people to love something new. It makes them defensive, which is not helpful for opening their minds on something, much less changing their minds. Remember that love for X-Wing and Armada are not mutually exclusive. As you know, I play both quite happily.
• You're a bit micro-managy when it comes to people's play. Give them time to think things through at their own pace. This also goes for games that you're not involved in. Give people the opportunity to breathe and enjoy the game.
• Also, don't get sour when people beat you. They're not just trying out a game. They're also trying out a community of players.

Are you doing anything that you think could be pushing them away?

That is a downside of having aspergers, I don't really know.

Even if you didn't have Aspergers it would be tough to tell.

Still, from what I have seen, I do think you've made some diplomatic mistakes:

• You disparage X-Wing pretty vociferously. While that clearly is your honest opinion, telling people that the thing they love is junk is not an effective way of enticing people to love something new. It makes them defensive, which is not helpful for opening their minds on something, much less changing their minds. Remember that love for X-Wing and Armada are not mutually exclusive. As you know, I play both quite happily.
• You're a bit micro-managy when it comes to people's play. Give them time to think things through at their own pace. This also goes for games that you're not involved in. Give people the opportunity to breathe and enjoy the game.
• Also, don't get sour when people beat you. They're not just trying out a game. They're also trying out a community of players.

I will say that I have disparaged X-Wing less and just state that it is a good game but not my favorite.

My local Gaming nerds are either:

A.) Super Cheap

B.) Sheople

C.) Exclusive

D.) FOTM gamers

Tell me more about your local gaming nerds. How big is your town? How many gaming groups are there locally? (within say, an hour?) What sort of games do they normally play? You mentioned LCGs, which is a red flag for me for people who are less likely to appreciate a game like Armada. Are there any groups that used to (or still do) play 40k or Warmachine or games like that? I find they're generally more open to games like Armada.

I live 45 minutes from any respectable LGS. The only one with a solid 40k group is the cloest store that is small, smelly, dirty and has a toxic community of people who "play for fun" but show up with the most rediculus power list. They also hate losing, despite being pretty bad at games on a core level. They play broken things and lose because they don't understand core mechanics. I do not play there often. They also cry the blues about not having money to do things but are placing forgeworld orders for titans and buying a new game a month. They are nice people just misguided and not fun to game with. Add in a store that closes at 8pm on a friday night (no magic) and it just feels like a waste of time.

Warmachine is all but dead in CT. We had a huge WM crowd but due to the reasons in my post earlier (sheople) its gone. I am a pressganger and I have a room with about $10,000 in warmachine models collecting dust... I may be bitter.

The majority of the LGS owners do everything in their power to ruin the communities for everything but magic. One store wont give out dupe prizes from kits and just either holds on to it or ebays it. Another store wont allow players to run the events, so you have a store employee who's never played the game running the event and appointing players as judges. When pairings get messed up they want to roll with it and not fix it. The only "good " LGS in the state is about an hour away and I would have to drive through Hartford during rush hour.

The gaming cafes are starting to pick up and have x-wing support but it remains to be seen if they will support armada. its easier for someone to drop $15 on a splurge ship than buy an armada pack. It really just means the armada meta will be slow to take off and get to a really healthy level.

Reading the posts, one finds several "flaws" with the marketability of Armada repeated quite often. Namely price, game time, and variety in models. These hurdles to potential players willingness to "buy in" may actually (at the least should) be forefront in FFG's mind as they plan out the future of the game.

I have to wonder...Could FFG be shifting their releases to primarily ships whose price point will match/compare with X-Wing releases? This would negate the issues of cost. Also, by producing smaller ships, players could incorporate more variety to builds as well as have larger fleets. And who doesn't feel that rush of power looking over a table half covered with their plastic might?

They may also be planning some adjustment to game time via damage and critical hit issues using flotilla style influences. Say, perhaps, Fire Control based units that turn hits into critical hits? Or allowed a player to change one miss to a hit? I admit I don't get to play often, and these abilities may already exist, but my point is they may be looking at a way to increase both the number of units on the board, as well as how quickly they go away, at a reduced cost to the players.

Or...they may feel the game is just fine as is (a valid opinion, though the addition of Flotillas would argue they feel the game has room to grow), and that whiny nerds will be whiny nerds no matter what you do to make them happy (I do, of course, include myself in that statement).

I do worry about the future of the game. I worry because I like the game and want to see it succeed. Which it has. But it's already a game I fear a lot of us are looking at leaving because we don't know anyone else who's playing it. I'm not doomsaying. I'm looking back on what it looked like in the days and months before, little by little, my sourcebooks moved from the bookshelf to the closet. When 40K went from miniature cases to ebay.

I'm waiting with baited breath. I can't and won't make the call for the game globally. But where I live, it is dead. Maybe more accurately, it was never born.

Whatever happens, I won't stop trying to spread interest in the game. As long as FFG supports it, I will too.

Just...throw me a bone, eh FFG? Make my "job" easier?

Adding my own anecdotal evidence...

I play at the Team Covenant store in Tulsa and Armada is fading from there too.

They run an Armada league where you score points for playing pickup games but they no longer host Armada tournaments. I suspect the turnouts were poor. I'm an older wargamer and I love the longer style of game play but it's hard to devote an entire Saturday to playing in a tournament.

I recently demo'd Armada at the store for a friend and the game attracts interested people but its hard to get them to try a game even though they are serious Star Wars people.

I've talked with both Zach and Tim Bunn about why the game isn't more popular and the consensus we reached was the time required. You can play 3 games of XWing or 1 game of Armada on league night... most people choose XWing.

J--

Stop marketing to players who don't want to put the time in. Warmachine, Dropzone Commander, Warhammer (all forms), Infinity, etc all take longer to play. These are popular games that take 2 hours or more to play. They are high tactical games that require complex thought and play. X- Wing and games like that don't require that level of play. Sure they have their own levels of complexity but they are almost an order of magnitude below that of any game I listed prior.

Bring people in from a different aspect. Don't just demo, thrown together the new 4 player scenario and let people control a small force

Appreciate the advice but the demo game was for a veteran of most of the games you listed. We attracted the interest of several people. Everyone likes the look of the game and I've painted my models so that they stand out a bit but despite the interest it is hard to get the bystanders to try a game. I think many of them them are XWing players and their investment in that game satisfies their Star Wars game needs...?

The Team Covenant store is both odd and incredible at the same time. They support a smaller set of games than most stores do but they tend to support them very well. I said that to say that there isn't a large pool of gamers from those games you listed at the store.

We've tried a couple of times to get the 4 player scenario going but can't get a fourth...

J--

We have had many conversations about it. I'm finding that this is a game that you have to practice. other miniatures games I can put an army together and still be successful.

Armada if you do not practice, and put thought into it you have no hope in winning. 2 players that quit, i'm pretty sure because the game is hard and they have never won a game. The same 2 or 3 of us win all the time, and its because we eat, sleep, and breath Armada.

tough to want to go to a tournament if you know you cannot win. Most people don't seem to have the mind set of "I must get better". They want an easy button, and X-wing seems to be that easy button.

I don't know if its like that anymore but I have not played X-wing since wave 1 or 2. and all it seemed to me was a guessing game as to who would pull the first u-turn. I remember one person on here said x-wing was more like poker, and I agree

X-wing = checkers and Armada = chess. The millennial generation will choose checkers every time, with exceptions of course.

first off; trying to generalize an entire generation of people about being perceived as some kind of retarded children in your eyes is not something i think you should be talking about, because you're clearly talking out of your butt on this with zero facts to back up that statement

2nd; need practice? tell that the to 2 Imperial star destroyers i won by placing first in the 2 massing at sullest tournaments that i attended with a total of 3 games under my belt before entering into these competitions. 2 of which were core only games and with one 300 point game

when it comes to strategy gaming, and the years of gaming i've observed over time. People are either good strategists or they aren't at all. While practice can help, basic understandings of activations, movements and action economy are required to be successful in all strategy games. Also understanding what your opponent is likely to do is a very large part about being a good strategist.

3rd; comparing x wing to armada is like comparing apples to oranges. they are completely different games. one game is no more difficult than the other. Both play completely different from one another and require different understandings of what to do. in fact for tournament settings i think it would be fair to argue that an X wing tournament will be much harder to win at over an Armada tournament, as you're likely to run into stiffer competition for 2 reasons, first there are a hell of a lot more people playing X wing, and with more players comes stiffer competition. second X wing has been around a lot longer and so the true veteran players will have a significant edge over newer players due to not only knowing all the basic understandings but have a very good understanding of advanced strategies and baiting your opponent for easier wins.

Lot's o stuff that makes a huge amount of sense and is essentially exactly how I felt prior to taking the plunge at the Mission Sullust tournament, yet is still how I feel about X-wing which is a more established game.

My painting table has a permanent black mat on it for small scale Armada games and X-wing so I know about the sort there

Let's turn this thread to something positive: Introductory Scenarios.

Something like: 120 - 180 points, no Admirals, few to no upgrades

Something that can be played by multiple players, perhaps?

I think a big challenge of this game would be jumping in right at 400 points and wave 2 and a bit. There is an awful lot of learning that has to go on - things to be learnt the hard way, and generally only by experience.

I'm planning on playing more often at my LGS, and hope to recruit a few more players to my local meta - but that will take a lot of time and work.

Any ideas for introduction scenarios? Fun, quick, addictive?

Let's turn this thread to something positive: Introductory Scenarios.

Something like: 120 - 180 points, no Admirals, few to no upgrades

Something that can be played by multiple players, perhaps?

I think a big challenge of this game would be jumping in right at 400 points and wave 2 and a bit. There is an awful lot of learning that has to go on - things to be learnt the hard way, and generally only by experience.

I'm planning on playing more often at my LGS, and hope to recruit a few more players to my local meta - but that will take a lot of time and work.

Any ideas for introduction scenarios? Fun, quick, addictive?

That's why I had asked about the "Take the Station" scenario. 200pts per player, no commander, just get to the station and hold it for as long as possible.

My local Gaming nerds are either:

A.) Super Cheap

B.) Sheople

C.) Exclusive

D.) FOTM gamers

Tell me more about your local gaming nerds. How big is your town? How many gaming groups are there locally? (within say, an hour?) What sort of games do they normally play? You mentioned LCGs, which is a red flag for me for people who are less likely to appreciate a game like Armada. Are there any groups that used to (or still do) play 40k or Warmachine or games like that? I find they're generally more open to games like Armada.

I live 45 minutes from any respectable LGS. The only one with a solid 40k group is the cloest store that is small, smelly, dirty and has a toxic community of people who "play for fun" but show up with the most rediculus power list. They also hate losing, despite being pretty bad at games on a core level. They play broken things and lose because they don't understand core mechanics. I do not play there often. They also cry the blues about not having money to do things but are placing forgeworld orders for titans and buying a new game a month. They are nice people just misguided and not fun to game with. Add in a store that closes at 8pm on a friday night (no magic) and it just feels like a waste of time.

Warmachine is all but dead in CT. We had a huge WM crowd but due to the reasons in my post earlier (sheople) its gone. I am a pressganger and I have a room with about $10,000 in warmachine models collecting dust... I may be bitter.

The majority of the LGS owners do everything in their power to ruin the communities for everything but magic. One store wont give out dupe prizes from kits and just either holds on to it or ebays it. Another store wont allow players to run the events, so you have a store employee who's never played the game running the event and appointing players as judges. When pairings get messed up they want to roll with it and not fix it. The only "good " LGS in the state is about an hour away and I would have to drive through Hartford during rush hour.

The gaming cafes are starting to pick up and have x-wing support but it remains to be seen if they will support armada. its easier for someone to drop $15 on a splurge ship than buy an armada pack. It really just means the armada meta will be slow to take off and get to a really healthy level.

It sounds like you've got a pretty hostile environment. Are you able to play at home? Have you tried simply organising a non-store-based club? One that meets monthly at like, a school hall or something? You can get a handful of cheap trestle tables and some black bed sheets as short-term play areas and you and a couple of friends can play to your hearts content and let the local games stores stew in their own juices.

Reading the posts, one finds several "flaws" with the marketability of Armada repeated quite often. Namely price, game time, and variety in models. These hurdles to potential players willingness to "buy in" may actually (at the least should) be forefront in FFG's mind as they plan out the future of the game.

I have to wonder...

Hmmm I don't think there is a lack of willingness to buy in. Armada is the 3rd (or is it 5th? Still HIGH!) best selling wargame in the US. This is competing against Warmachine, Dropzone Commander, Warhammer 40k, Warhammer Fantasy, etc. You know ow what those all have in common with Armada? Game length and table size. Each game I stated has been out for YEARS! Warmachine didn't just start at the top. It took more than a year to get there. Guess what. Armada actually did it in LESS than a year. So your idea that it is not marketable is false. It obviously sells. The issue is getting those buyers out to play.

My local Gaming nerds are either:

A.) Super Cheap

B.) Sheople

C.) Exclusive

D.) FOTM gamers

Tell me more about your local gaming nerds. How big is your town? How many gaming groups are there locally? (within say, an hour?) What sort of games do they normally play? You mentioned LCGs, which is a red flag for me for people who are less likely to appreciate a game like Armada. Are there any groups that used to (or still do) play 40k or Warmachine or games like that? I find they're generally more open to games like Armada.

I live 45 minutes from any respectable LGS. The only one with a solid 40k group is the cloest store that is small, smelly, dirty and has a toxic community of people who "play for fun" but show up with the most rediculus power list. They also hate losing, despite being pretty bad at games on a core level. They play broken things and lose because they don't understand core mechanics. I do not play there often. They also cry the blues about not having money to do things but are placing forgeworld orders for titans and buying a new game a month. They are nice people just misguided and not fun to game with. Add in a store that closes at 8pm on a friday night (no magic) and it just feels like a waste of time.

Warmachine is all but dead in CT. We had a huge WM crowd but due to the reasons in my post earlier (sheople) its gone. I am a pressganger and I have a room with about $10,000 in warmachine models collecting dust... I may be bitter.

The majority of the LGS owners do everything in their power to ruin the communities for everything but magic. One store wont give out dupe prizes from kits and just either holds on to it or ebays it. Another store wont allow players to run the events, so you have a store employee who's never played the game running the event and appointing players as judges. When pairings get messed up they want to roll with it and not fix it. The only "good " LGS in the state is about an hour away and I would have to drive through Hartford during rush hour.

The gaming cafes are starting to pick up and have x-wing support but it remains to be seen if they will support armada. its easier for someone to drop $15 on a splurge ship than buy an armada pack. It really just means the armada meta will be slow to take off and get to a really healthy level.

It sounds like you've got a pretty hostile environment. Are you able to play at home? Have you tried simply organising a non-store-based club? One that meets monthly at like, a school hall or something? You can get a handful of cheap trestle tables and some black bed sheets as short-term play areas and you and a couple of friends can play to your hearts content and let the local games stores stew in their own juices.

its rough. I live 45min from the LGS and about an hour from my buddies. everyone is busy on weekends so the wednesday night at the game club is the only night i can "reliably" get games in. The price point of armada is the biggest hurdle for everyone who is interested. These people spend tons of money on other games but I do get there reservations.

I still enjoy the game but with the lack of practice lately (and going 1-2 at regionals with a buy) my reign of terror in the CT Armada scene is most likely coming to an end.

Reading the posts, one finds several "flaws" with the marketability of Armada repeated quite often. Namely price, game time, and variety in models. These hurdles to potential players willingness to "buy in" may actually (at the least should) be forefront in FFG's mind as they plan out the future of the game.

I have to wonder...

Hmmm I don't think there is a lack of willingness to buy in. Armada is the 3rd (or is it 5th? Still HIGH!) best selling wargame in the US. This is competing against Warmachine, Dropzone Commander, Warhammer 40k, Warhammer Fantasy, etc. You know ow what those all have in common with Armada? Game length and table size. Each game I stated has been out for YEARS! Warmachine didn't just start at the top. It took more than a year to get there. Guess what. Armada actually did it in LESS than a year. So your idea that it is not marketable is false. It obviously sells. The issue is getting those buyers out to play.

Let me clear up some apparent confusion? Because what you took out of that comment is completely off point. Firstly, I said "reading the posts." I did not out and out declare as fact that the game is not marketable. I did say there were observable "flaws." You may note (or may have missed) the word "flaws" was in quotations? As in matter of opinion. I am well aware that Armada is comparable to Warmachine, Dropzone Commander, and the Warhammer licenses. I've made that exact comparison in other posts where I have defended the price points of Armada and argued that anyone buying into a game of this type is used to paying out the nose.

I am also well aware many people have posted (in a number of threads) stating they personally know people who are not buying the game expressly due to its cost. Even people who are playing the game have not been shy about grousing over the price points of some of the releases.

So your impression I said the game was "not marketable" is not only false, but unfounded. I observed complaints and ways to address them to potentially make the game more marketable, but I never claimed it wasn't as is.

To address the rest of your post;

Yes, the early sales are impressive. No one said they weren't. But you know what those other games have that Armada doesn't? Proven staying power. Batman V Superman did awesome it's first week; didn't help it much after that, did it?

Your last observation is completely in line with my original post in this thread. You state the issue is getting people who bought the product out to play. That's a problem. A huge one for many of us. Because those other games I mentioned? Guess what else they all have in common? I can find players all around me for any of them. All the local shops sell them. All the local shops host events with them. The same local shops that have discontinued Armada and Imperial Assault due to poor sales. This ties right back in with price and player base. Players not used to this kind of buy in are balking, and players who are used to this kind of buy in already have other games to play. A game is an investment, and if it doesn't pay off (in play time) you're far less likely to continue investing in said game.

People have correctly pointed out that even with lack of local stores folks can order online. True enough, and often for less. But you can't play online. The local dropping of the lines (and not just for sale, as I said in the first post they have dropped all support entirely) are because people aren't playing the game. And make no mistake, that will impact the line over-all. No matter what you say about the sales numbers, the game is only as good as its last sales report. Number 3 this year means squat if they're only number 52 next year. This is the driving force behind that post. The game had a strong premiere, and that's great. But there is nothing wrong with looking at what can be done to help it with staying power, which is what it needs if you ever want to see Wave 6.

Reading the posts, one finds several "flaws" with the marketability of Armada repeated quite often. Namely price, game time, and variety in models. These hurdles to potential players willingness to "buy in" may actually (at the least should) be forefront in FFG's mind as they plan out the future of the game.

I have to wonder...

Hmmm I don't think there is a lack of willingness to buy in. Armada is the 3rd (or is it 5th? Still HIGH!) best selling wargame in the US. This is competing against Warmachine, Dropzone Commander, Warhammer 40k, Warhammer Fantasy, etc. You know ow what those all have in common with Armada? Game length and table size. Each game I stated has been out for YEARS! Warmachine didn't just start at the top. It took more than a year to get there. Guess what. Armada actually did it in LESS than a year. So your idea that it is not marketable is false. It obviously sells. The issue is getting those buyers out to play.

Let me clear up some apparent confusion? Because what you took out of that comment is completely off point. Firstly, I said "reading the posts." I did not out and out declare as fact that the game is not marketable. I did say there were observable "flaws." You may note (or may have missed) the word "flaws" was in quotations? As in matter of opinion. I am well aware that Armada is comparable to Warmachine, Dropzone Commander, and the Warhammer licenses. I've made that exact comparison in other posts where I have defended the price points of Armada and argued that anyone buying into a game of this type is used to paying out the nose.

I am also well aware many people have posted (in a number of threads) stating they personally know people who are not buying the game expressly due to its cost. Even people who are playing the game have not been shy about grousing over the price points of some of the releases.

So your impression I said the game was "not marketable" is not only false, but unfounded. I observed complaints and ways to address them to potentially make the game more marketable, but I never claimed it wasn't as is.

To address the rest of your post;

Yes, the early sales are impressive. No one said they weren't. But you know what those other games have that Armada doesn't? Proven staying power. Batman V Superman did awesome it's first week; didn't help it much after that, did it?

Your last observation is completely in line with my original post in this thread. You state the issue is getting people who bought the product out to play. That's a problem. A huge one for many of us. Because those other games I mentioned? Guess what else they all have in common? I can find players all around me for any of them. All the local shops sell them. All the local shops host events with them. The same local shops that have discontinued Armada and Imperial Assault due to poor sales. This ties right back in with price and player base. Players not used to this kind of buy in are balking, and players who are used to this kind of buy in already have other games to play. A game is an investment, and if it doesn't pay off (in play time) you're far less likely to continue investing in said game.

People have correctly pointed out that even with lack of local stores folks can order online. True enough, and often for less. But you can't play online. The local dropping of the lines (and not just for sale, as I said in the first post they have dropped all support entirely) are because people aren't playing the game. And make no mistake, that will impact the line over-all. No matter what you say about the sales numbers, the game is only as good as its last sales report. Number 3 this year means squat if they're only number 52 next year. This is the driving force behind that post. The game had a strong premiere, and that's great. But there is nothing wrong with looking at what can be done to help it with staying power, which is what it needs if you ever want to see Wave 6.

As a side note. That was nearly a TL;DR post.

So back onto the post. Yes it has flaws, so does X-Wing, Warhammer, etc. All of their marketing is great and they do have bigger player bases, but they didn't start out that well. They had to build it up over the years. You can find players for other fames because they have been around for years. Enough time to have people start leagues, get friends into it, play, paint, etc.

That is the difference. Everyone wants instant success out of Armada and it has done well. Now do your job as a player and hustle it. I have, I have gotten many players into the game. They wince at the buy in but once they are in they are golden.

It's also interesting to note that we may have a great opportunity to get people into the game if a wave is released alongside Rogue One. Chatting to people at the tournament the other day, it seems pretty clear that wave 3 was intended to be larger, but has been split into a wave 3 and a wave 4 for reasons unclear (likely production issues). If wave 4 is released to coincide with the film, and if it features ships or characters from the film, it could be a great opportunity for the company and for us as players to get people interested.

In addition, the fact that we have now seen Agent Kallus in the game suggests that we may end up with some Rebels crossover in the future. Given the show's popularity, and the ships' clear success amongst X-wing players, this could also be really positive for attracting new people to the game.

I guess it's going to be a case of choosing our moment and taking it.

Another thing is there are so many people that also don't realize it is a completely different and separate game from X-Wing. I've had quite a few people stop by my table to watch a game, thinking they already own the game and Armada is some sort of expansion or something.

But yeah, I bet new ships that tie into the new movies will really draw more people in.

--edit--

I'll preface with this: The devil's advocate is strong in me. I love a good debate and strive to see a subject from all sides (which sometimes makes it seem like I'm on both). I also try to be comprehensive and cover the bases, which can lead to being a bit long winded at times. So I apologize for that now. My original post was just exactly what the thread is titled, the loss of local support and a sigh at its (hopefully temporary passing).

--end edit--

"So back onto the post. Yes it has flaws, so does X-Wing, Warhammer, etc. All of their marketing is great and they do have bigger player bases, but they didn't start out that well. They had to build it up over the years. You can find players for other fames because they have been around for years. Enough time to have people start leagues, get friends into it, play, paint, etc. That is the difference. Everyone wants instant success out of Armada and it has done well. Now do your job as a player and hustle it. I have, I have gotten many players into the game. They wince at the buy in but once they are in they are golden." ~ Lyraeus

I think you still missed the take-away. Though I appreciate the irony of stating a criticism that everyone wants instant success out of Armada after assigning it the very definition of an instant success.

As I said, Armada has everything the other games have except proven staying power (albeit not without stumbling). It has marketing flaws, but saying "so does everyone else" isn't a valid counter. Addressing the flaws is.

You're right, those other games didn't start on top. No one said they did. But Armada pretty much has. Right there, we're dealing with a different kind of animal. Huge initial interest, followed by a fair amount of evidence that interest is waning. And it isn't "once in golden" because there are many of us that are in and have no one to play against. Also, more collections are showing up on ebay and other market sites (which isn't automatically a sign of the apocalypse, as other games have no shortage of collections on there too).

I said in an earlier post (I'll recap in case the thread is tl;dr) that I'm not doom-saying or crying the sky is falling. I even said I'm continuing to support the game for as long as FFG does. I'd just appreciate if they addressed what is hamstringing that to make our job easier. I'll keep trying to play it even if it goes away. Wouldn't be the first game I have you can't get anymore. Heck, I own Samurai Swords.

I have tried to introduce others to the game but a sales pitch that boils down to the reality of "Hey! Come spend a couple hundred dollars to get into this game you won't be able to find anyone to play against within a 120 mile radius of you!" isn't the best form of promotion.

One last thought. I know why it's done, but I don't think the current sales numbers is the best way to rate Armada's health. Comparing the sales of a brand new game in which you are establishing your forces in their entirety against the sales for games in which a large base is merely boosting their already existing forces isn't exactly apples to apples. The first year or two of sales include the initial interest/buy in price, fleet building, and the releases of the highest popularity, higher price units. That's arguably largely done. The big pay-off is over. It will be interesting to see where their sales land for the next 2 years.

Huge initial interest, but also a fair amount of evidence that interest is waning. And it isn't "once in golden" because there are many of us that are in and have no one to play against.

I think the problem is the gaming crowds. FFG pushes and pursues a particular type of gaming crowd that isn't the usual wargaming crowd.

I was just having a discussion with someone over on the X Wing forums about different ways to play X Wing, and this other person was a good example of someone who is not a wargamer. He only enjoys playing pick-up tournament style games because otherwise he might not get a game, or might have to wait more than an hour for someone to finish their game so they can play him. The typical FFG gamer will often play other games, but those games will be card games and board games, and they're used to only ever playing in stores, and only ever playing pick-up games with strangers. Or rather, they won't bother arranging a game prior to games night, they'll just walk in with their stuff and try to get a game.

There's surprisingly little cross-over between traditional wargamers, and people who play FFG games. The problem is that Armada needs the touch of a wargamer, because it's simply too involved for someone who's only other experience of miniatures games is X Wing.

The other problem is that a lot of people are already invested in another game system, and while Armada might be less expensive, they'd rather funnel their cash into their existing projects. Adding another squad to their 40K army is cheaper and easier than buying an Armada starter set and half a dozen ships to round out your fleet.

Having said that, I'm willing to bet that most of the people who've bought Armada and play it realise that there is little point in randomly attending games nights/days/whatever to try and get games. They've probably already got a gaming group they play with, and either arrange games on a game-by-game basis, or just play at home. It's not that people don't want to play Armada, it's that they don't want to play with you. Not you you, just the general 'you'. They will use facebook to arrange games with other people in their social circle, and they'll often play at home. Walking into a games store and hoping for a pick-up game of Armada is a path to frustration, which leads to anger, hate and suffering.

A lot of people you'll encounter in stores, who might see a demo-game, are the sort of people who will only play in stores, and since they don't see Armada being played in stores they are less likely to invest in it. Like night spots, a crowd draws a crowd so to get people buying and playing you need to have tables full of players who've already bought and are playing. You can see the catch! The people more likely to buy in are the people confident they can get a game, who are the people with an established network of gamer friends who already have somewhere to play. But these people are less likely to be attending games stores...

And frankly the Armada gameplay is not as streamlined as it could be. It's an ok game with an excellent IP and gorgeous models, and I think some people look at all the cards and dials and counters and markers and are a little put-off. There's a lot more going on than in a regular wargame.

And finally there's X Wing to blame. If humanity is a pie, then the slice of that pie that will play games and loves Star Wars has to be divided between X Wing and Armada. Not everyone will be able to play both, either due to cost or because they don't want to split their game time between two games, or because they don't want to have to keep up with the rules and meta for more than one game.

I'm a bit of a special gaming butterfly. Currently I have forces for X Wing, Armada, Imperial Assault, Warmachine, 40K, Warhammer Fantasy, Kings of War, SAGA, Hail Caesar, Confrontation, Epic, Mordheim, and probably other games I've forgotten about. But most people just play one or two games, and it can be hard to sell Armada to people that have already found their gaming niche.

But despite all that doom and gloom I really think Armada is doing well. I just think judging it by games-night attendance and tournament turn-out is the wrong way to judge it. I don't think Armada is a game suited to games-nights and tournaments like X Wing is.

I agree with a lot of what you say. In fact, you've re-stated several of my own points.

But I'm not so willing as some seem to be to dismiss the loss of local support as "nothing to see here, move along."

When looked at objectively, yes, the game hit with a huge splash. But there is a lot stacked against that huge splash being maintained. There are 6 game stores within 45 minutes of me, and they have all dropped the lines. Not dropped game nights (though that too) but stopped selling them. That's not lack of people playing with "you," that's lack of people buying/playing, period.

Again, not doom-saying. Armada isn't going anywhere. I agree game nights may not be the best way to judge it, but neither is initial sales. The game has proven it has everything except staying power. That will only be proven with time.

--edit--

I know my situation is only my situation and there are places where the game is booming. Not disputing that. But my situation isn't isolated either, as several posts in this thread have shown.

--end edit--