So, I've got a question for all of you who end up sitting in the big chair, hooded cloak over your head:

Is it wrong to go easy on your players?

A bit of background: My first time being an imperial player was with my descent group. They are good players, and eventually eked out a win, though our win-loss ratio was pretty even, and most of the missions came down to the last turn, often the last activation of the last turn. So, I'm thinking, this is awesome. I expand my collection, prep for the next campaign, and figure, in the mean time, I'll get with some internet buddies, run some online games for them.

They are terrible. We've only played two missions thus far, the intro and one side mission. They only got one terminal in the intro mission, and didn't even open the door to the facility until the end of turn 4, at which point they **** their pants at the E-Web. Pretty soon the game was wrapped up, one player dropped out after the post-game chatter, and there was definitely an air of frustration.

So, for the next mission, I deliberately pulled my punches. I tried not to make it obvious, and handed them the win deliberately, as I didn't want any more to drop out of frustration, and let's face it, it's no fun for them if they're frustrated as well.

So I ask you, fellow Imperial players - If your skill greatly outmatches that of your players, how much do you hold back? Do you let them have a few victories here and there to keep the game fun for everyone? Or do you keep pounding them until you've destroyed their morale?

You'll have to coach the rebels if they are behind in strategy. Maybe not teach them all of your tricks so you can get into gear if they get a few good weapons and start to kick your ass.

(Losing aftermath is good for the rebels.)

I'll tell ya this for nothing: Pounding on your players makes them resent the game and dislike you and they WILL quit the campaign. Not maybe. Not possibly. WILL quit the campaign. Then you can sit there with all your toys and play by yourself.

IA, for many groups, is just not fun. You have to find a way to maintain the balance. And yes, I realize how stupid that sounds as you are less DM than direct opponent, but you can moderate your play to their skill or you can watch that box of plastic and cardboard get dusty.

I always make sure the game stays balanced. I noticed in the core, most of the side missions Rebels have an easier time winning, while the Story missions can and are cruel. So just do what you need to keep them in the game and make it enjoyable for fun.

~D

It depends on the group.. but in most cases the campaign needs to be treated like any other role playing game where you are a dm. If I sense the players are doing their best I'll pull my punches. If they're becoming sloppy and overconfident I hit them harder. But end of the day you want everybody to be having fun.

I've never played descent, but it may be their experience there is hampering them. The first mission is timed, but they didn't open the door until most of the way through the mission, that shows a failure to prioritize. Let them know that in IA, you HAVE to focus on the mission, and not get bogged down shooting grunts. Remind them they aren't adventurers, but a spec ops team whose job is to get in and accomplish the mission and get out before reinforcements arrive.

Aside from that, losing the first mission is honestly good for the rebels, as the next story mission will be easier (it's a fun one too). Go through the forum and reddit page and look for threads on over looked rules. Rebels often lose if they don't use their abilities to the fullest. Taking strain to get movement points, spending surge to recover strain, and recovering health when you would recover strainbut have none are some of the most important rules to not forget.

Also, check your class deck. If you are using subversive tactics, switch it out. That's a tough deck to win against for new players.

Off-site resources:

A checklist for the rules mistakes people new to the game make in general:

https://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1319188/what-are-some-crazy-or-common-rule-breaking-mistak

To get a sense of how hard each mission is for first-time players:

https://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1331517/how-balanced-each-scenario

A collection of FFG answers to rules questions:

https://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1373530/ffg-unofficial-answers-rules-questions-thread-read

when im the Imperial Player, I like to discuss tactics with the rebels. i let them know what i have left to activate, and what class cards i still have left, They have caught on that, when they open a door or unlock a terminal that something will trigger.

Im a cinematic player, i like the gameplay to feel like a movie not too worried about winning or losing. I have my nexus and wampas attack imperials if they are close to them, i try and make my choices (even if im going easy on them) make sense in the game world and Narrative.

sometimes ill justify re-rolling with squad training (if i rolled to high) to say i want to try grab a surge, or was trying for something else.

in short, if i go easy on them, i try to make my choices still feel cinematic.

I try not to win as the imperial too much, as it can sour the grapes. but the Return to hoth matches have been really back and forth so far, its a great campaign.

side note... try not to roll super dodges on that white dice all the time.

I've been thinking of a few ideas to give the rebels a more helping hand and perhaps more thematic experience. Alot of times it feels like the heros aren't even rebels except for the fact that they are shooting Imperials.

So far I'm thinking...

Tusken Raiders being actually neutral... attacking anyone closest to them. Same for Wampas and possibly Nexu (as I feel those can be tamed).

Scum faction being true neutral in certain missions. Perhaps Black Sun wants to get that data in Viper's Den.

Random Rebel troopers helping out the heroes. Like on the mission Under Siege or Incoming.

Random Scum allies. Not everyone who hates the Empire is a Rebel.

No more "You lose turn limit" unless thematically appropriate. Instead of just saying "Too many guys showed up and you lost" make it so reinforcements actually DO show up, giving the heroes precious seconds to finish and run.

Heroes have to actually escape. Not sure why the Wookiee Warriors side mission is one of the few that actually have you perform an extraction out of the mission zone.

No more regular royal guards. Royal Guards are the best of the best. They aren't some mooks deployed at an Impound lot or given trash duty like in The Source. Use them in actual valuable locations and use the powerful ones so they are actually feared!

Less Vader. Vader has more important stuff to do than stop Luke from getting his PoS T-47 skyhopper or attacking the B-team performing some distraction ops. He has subordinates like, Kayn Somos, RGC and Boba Fett for a reason.

EDIT: People die when they are killed. **** the movies. This game already takes a dump on the canon with people like Diala and now Davith being members of the Rebel Alliance. Make it feel like your actions actually matter instead of just "oh well, Luke will just go off to kill Vader anyways". If Luke or another ally falls in battle. They are knocked unconscious and have to carried like in X-com 2. Same goes for heroes defeated twice. Anyone left behind is DEAD and has to reroll a new hero with the same EXP. For allies, they are gone for good. Tired of seeing stormtroopers ignore wounded heroes like I'm the Borg and constantly reading imperial victories that are just "rebels got overran and had to retreat."

The first time I played as the Empire was the Hoth campaign. I only had 2 rebel players at the time, and despite my minor coaching, there were several points where I could have won, but I felt bad and let them win, to the point that it was fairly obvious.

2 more rebel players and 3 Imperial losses later, I regret that decision. Turns out the first half of the hoth campaign is heavily skewed towards the rebels to prevent them from having their morale crushed early I suppose, and had I known that I would have taken my win. I finally got my first win last week and got some major much-needed upgrades, and I'm looking forward to bringing this campaign back under my control.

If your rebel players are lacking in strategic or technical ability, then help them get better. If players are unhappy, talk to them, figure out what the real problem is and work out a solution with them. Communication is key for any successful play group. But I have learned that trying to secretly seek to manipulate the results of a mission is counter-productive in the long run, and to me is condescending and disrespectful and doesn't lead to player satisfaction in the long run.

I'm going to reiterate a couple points I have made before.

A) In my mind, this is NOT a wargame. The point is NOT to destroy the Rebels. This is more akin to a an rpg, where the Imperial player is a GM of sorts. So, the job of the Imp is more to facillitate the story being told than to destroy your opponents.

2) This is a game. The goal is for everyone to have fun. As long as you are having fun, do what it takes for the Rebels to have fun. If they enjoy being slaughtered, give 'er. If not, push them as hard as you can without killing them. Make it a challenge, but, not impossible. This is Star Wars, not Eldritch Horror.

I actually see if different.

this is no different from any other board game with a competitive nature.

before starting I've always stated to the rebel players that they have it up against them.

while I will not pull any blows during the rebel players turn I will point out anything that can help them and point out any things I can do to make sure they are fully aware.

I tell players that something is going to happen on certain turns or at certain events (without telling them what)

I will make sure that every turn they know of time limits

I will give them advice and help and we will talk and have fun. but I make sure both sides know this is a competitive game with a definite winner and loser.

I've had game which go completely the imperial way and others where it just falls apart and the imperial player can't win anything. that's the fun and challenge for me

I am not saying take it easy on them, (unless they are rookies to this kind of game), I am saying not to do your utmost to vapourise them. My Rebels have lost a number of times, but, never because I made the mission impossible. Mostly due to bad die rolls or getting sidetracked.

You said help them out with advice and such. I would say we are on the same page. We don't necessarily WANT them to win, but, we do want them to feel they have a chance at winning, at the very least.

one thing I've also done is allow for players to change their character after about mission 1-4 I've found that as the game progresses some characters become more viable or just more fun later. even did a game where players could change characters every game from 1-4 and no personal missions could be used between then and at the end redid all expenditures for the money. it helps a lot. people pick a character then don't enjoy them

We did a restart after mission 4. I had purchased a bunch of expansions and we were playing some stuff wrong. So, just restarted the whole campaign. Oddly, only one of three REbels changed characters. Oh wait, my daughter loves Wookies.... and one of my players has a lightsabre collection. I guess I shouldn't be surprised they didn't change.

yeah i have all figures so all missions have been available for my group since about the second week of playing, also use the models for running Star wars RPG hehe

I don't play the rpg, heck barely have time for what I do play. But yeah, I would use them if i did. Currently running teh main campaign with teh Twin Shadows thrown in and running Hoth after that with everything thrown in.

I am not saying take it easy on them, (unless they are rookies to this kind of game), I am saying not to do your utmost to vapourise them. My Rebels have lost a number of times, but, never because I made the mission impossible. Mostly due to bad die rolls or getting sidetracked.

You said help them out with advice and such. I would say we are on the same page. We don't necessarily WANT them to win, but, we do want them to feel they have a chance at winning, at the very least.

I think you can only make the mission impossible if you are getting some rules wrong, playing with people below your skill level, or way ahead in Influence/XP.

I play with a bunch of people who are at my level of strategy game ability, and most of the time it's been very close, with both of us trying our best to win. There's never been a time when I thought, "I could do Plan A, but then the Rebels would have no chance, so I'll do Plan B instead." If there's been something I could have done to make it impossible for them, then I missed it

Stompburger, I can't disagree, for the most part. The only times I have had that opportunity to completely gutterstomp my players was when the dice gods were not showing them any favour at all. I know they are in trouble when I hear, "Hey, what the heck? When did stormtroopers get accurate", or something of the like. Or when they forget the mission and go for a recreation of Gunfight at the OK Corral.

I've never played descent, but it may be their experience there is hampering them. The first mission is timed, but they didn't open the door until most of the way through the mission, that shows a failure to prioritize. Let them know that in IA, you HAVE to focus on the mission, and not get bogged down shooting grunts. Remind them they aren't adventurers, but a spec ops team whose job is to get in and accomplish the mission and get out before reinforcements arrive.

Aside from that, losing the first mission is honestly good for the rebels, as the next story mission will be easier (it's a fun one too). Go through the forum and reddit page and look for threads on over looked rules. Rebels often lose if they don't use their abilities to the fullest. Taking strain to get movement points, spending surge to recover strain, and recovering health when you would recover strainbut have none are some of the most important rules to not forget.

Also, check your class deck. If you are using subversive tactics, switch it out. That's a tough deck to win against for new players.

The Descent group is the brutal one, and the one who kind of set my expectations for the second group, which is the one where a player had a critical morale failure. My intent for the next mission, under seige, is to play the next mission on my personal "Middle" difficulty. I'll be reminding them of abilities and such, but will be keeping up the pressure, and not splitting my fire like I was with Friends of Old. I may back off if they're getting thrashed too badly. My personal vow is to not win before the end of Turn 6, so I'll be adjusting my play accordingly for that.

For the record, I picked Inspiring Leadership for my class card, because I love me some Officers and the flexibility they provide.

sometimes it can be hard to hold back. my competitive nature is a bad one and has a hard time holding back the punches, and as i'm tailing towards the end of my first campaign (my group is on the mission "captured") i'm planning to let them have this next mission because i'm now leading them 6-3. and they've lost the past 2 games in a row, won the 1 before that and lost the 3 previous to that one.

they are pretty good as a group strategists, and have been getting better tactics and working better together as the campaign has been moving along (though sometimes a bit too slowly). I don't mean to toot my own horn but i live for strategy games and i have a significant edge on them both in terms of experience in this game and in overall strategy game theory. which is one of the main reasons why i generally perform very well in tournament settings and almost always come out among the top few positions (you should have seen the amount of x wing swag i used to have before selling)

my problem with holding back is that my players know the type of ruthless player that i am and will likely notice if i'm holding back so i'm trying to find ways to make it more subtle. but even those don't help when my subtle spread of damage turns into max damage output on my side, followed by bad defensive and attack rolls on their part and then i roll huge on my defense.. i swear i've rolled more 3 defense on the black die than anything else.. oh well, shouganai?!

i'm thinking the best thing i can do is "conveniently" forget about my abilities that would benefit me and help them get ahead

i'm going to be doing the game soon from the rebel player. I think the thing to consider is your group. you can easily give each player a chance at playing the imperials and that means we all get a chance to be ruthless.

I want to be rebels and fight for my wins, as the imperial player you do have to fight for them, but that could be because I have a strong gaming group. it basically will always come down to how your group plays