I'll Shoot, You Run v2.0

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 397/400

Commander: General Dodonna

Assault Objective: Advanced Gunnery
Defense Objective: Hyperspace Assault
Navigation Objective: Superior Positions

MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63 points)
- Lando Callriassian ( 4 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- H9 Turbolasers ( 8 points)
- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)
MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63 points)
- Admonition ( 8 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- H9 Turbolasers ( 8 points)
- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)
GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
- Toryn Farr ( 7 points)
- Bright Hope ( 2 points)
GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
- Boosted Comms ( 4 points)
- Bomber Command Center ( 8 points)
[ flagship ] GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
- General Dodonna ( 20 points)
- Boosted Comms ( 4 points)
GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
- Boosted Comms ( 4 points)
8 X-Wing Squadrons ( 104 points)

First whack at adapting my current list to Wave 3. Has an answer for squadrons, no squadrons, MSU, flotillas, flotilla-killers, and big ships. I suspect this will be a little on the low end of activations, at least for a little while, but should still be respectable.

Thoughts?

Edited with ShadowKite's suggestion.

Given that Toryn Farr only affects ships and squadrons up to distance 3, I would switch out Boosted Comms on her transport for the Bright Hope title, since to be effective she will probably be in the thick of it.

Great point, thanks!

Now go play it on vassal ;-)

If only my wife hasn't committed me to a barbecue tonight!!

And what about killing ships? You dont appear to have that covered.

Some kind of Intel would be a nice addition.

And what about killing ships? You dont appear to have that covered.

Lol. Perhaps you have not seen the technological terror that is this fully armed and operational pair of battle shrimp. Couple that with 8 X-wings averaging 1+/shot, and yeah, pretty sure I've got the ship killing covered.

Some kind of Intel would be a nice addition.

Yeah, I'm going back and forth on that. On the one hand, 8 X-wings with swarm++ should be able to clear out escorts quick. On the other hand, sometimes you really gotta get those hull shots on the right turn. May swap out an X-wing for a vanilla HWK or even go a bit more defensive on the squadrons, but I want to see how this does first.

Some kind of Intel would be a nice addition.

Yeah, I'm going back and forth on that. On the one hand, 8 X-wings with swarm++ should be able to clear out escorts quick. On the other hand, sometimes you really gotta get those hull shots on the right turn. May swap out an X-wing for a vanilla HWK or even go a bit more defensive on the squadrons, but I want to see how this does first.

I haven't tried this combination, but generally speaking only one flavor of fighter becomes very predictable. So like a HWK or something would be a nice addition I think.

Seems like a really fragile fleet. I understand the x-wings in the face tactic, but anyone rolling significant red and blue dice are going to rip the title-less flagship to shreds and then burn the transports. An ISD will most likely outpace any x-wings which aren't being pushed with squad commands, and without the buff from Mon Mothma the MC30s have limited survivability.

Remember, the GR75's have no redirect or brace, so a medium-range attack with a couple blue and a couple red dice stand a serious chance of one-shotting them. I'd go repair crews on one, drop the third, and Adar Tallon for the additional squad shot.

Thanks for the feedback, but I think the tactics you're picturing are pretty different than the ones I use. It's certainly not a stand-and-fight fleet, but pretty much all of your objections assume it's standing toe-to-toe with ISD's. Yes, it is a fragile fleet: it's a light, fast MSU fleet, hit-and-run is the order of the day. The fleet's direct defenses are largely secondary--out-maneuvering the adversary is the best defense, and very doable with this very fast, maneuverable, and command-responsive fleet. If you're taking lots of hits, you're already doing it wrong.

I think you underestimate Lando, have you used him on MC30's? I have not yet had a game in which I would rather have had Foresight than Lando, and I've been using these two MC30's built like this for a couple of months now. They're extremely survivable if you fly them well ("well" as in "don't take shots from multiple upgraded ISD front arcs or MC80 side arcs"). Speaking of ships that throw significant red and blue dice, I have superior maneuverability, superior command dial flexibility, and likely activation advantage over MC80's, ISD's, VSD's, and AF2's. I will never spend any amount of time at medium/close of a ship throwing significant red and blue dice unless I have a very good reason to do so. You're right, camping out in the side arc of Defiance with Leading Shots and XI7 is probably a poor decision with any of these ships. So I won't do it.

I'm not sure why you think the X-wings will be uncommanded. The point of the GR-75's is to command the X-wings, and they do so quite well. Indeed, I'm not sure what else they would be doing in the fleet, if not pushing squadrons. Regardless, though, the X-wings are not there as primary anti-ship capability: they're squadron cover that doubles as very effective secondary anti-ship.

I also disagree on Repair Crews on one of the GR-75's in exchange for one of the others GR-75's. None of these ships live or die by their hull's resilience--as you pointed out, if a GR-75 is going to get hit, it's probably going to get one-shotted. If an MC30 is reduced to taking hull damage, one more hull is unlikely to save it. So why would I invest in Repair Crews at the expense of actual workable defenses (superior battlefield control through an extra activation and greater numbers)? In addition, dropping a ship would leave 2 X-wings unactivated, which... then your point on unactivated X-wings would apply. Adding Adar on top of that would only exacerbate the squadron activation shortage.

I think the strategy is cohesive and pointed, and can definitely see how it works. I also understand how survivable the Lando/Admonition combo is. I'm just saying that, depending on speed of engagement, the GR75's are either going to start going down to anything tossing Accuracy + 3 hits (which an ISD can do at long range, especially with H9 turbolasers) in round 2 or 3 or they're going to be out of range of the X-wings. This is especially true of the Toryn Farr ship, since she has to be within range 3.

I'm not saying I don't get how it works; it hits hard early in the game. Buffing the MC30s and pushing fewer squadrons seems, to me, like a better way to support the main thrust of the fleet without putting fleet points into attractive targets that die quickly, like the 42 point flagship.

I look forward to seeing you play the list, though; I'm sure you push squadrons a lot more effectively than I do!

Without Rieekan, shrimps want to go first. Perhaps you could drop the H-9s to heavy turbolasers or XI7s for a more competitive bid. OOOrrr... You could keep the H9 on one and add Intel officer to it. Getting an accuracy with H9 and intelling another token strips a ship of 2 defense options. Against a shrimp, that is terrifying. But I'd drop the H9s for something else.

My reasoning for the above is that most of the larger ships come pretty standard with ECMs. I assume that you would focus on one ship with both, and therefore ECM would only work for the first attack, and they'd be helpless after. However, that requires some finesse and a little luck with getting your opponent into that kill zone. What if you only manage to get one shrimp on target, and then they get to activate in the next round? That just my train of though, to find something that is effective with a single shot against a ship with ECM.

Second, Shrimps have very little trouble one-shotting small ships, but you need some way to threaten the larger ships (with my reasoning above in mind). Also, with Toryn Farr, you get to reroll your blues anyways, so the H9 is somewhat redundant. And for attacking flotillas, H9 is great, but you still have the blue rerolls to accuracy away the scatter (and they can't ECM), and they can't scatter forever. Just as personal preference, I think something other than the H9 is better for mc30s (also cheaper).

Now for something I think you did very well: I think that 8 X-wings with the transports is terrifying, and they don't particularly care wether they're attacking ships or squadrons, so having an Intel squadron isn't all that necessary. Unless you get Jan to make them more survivable.

So cliff notes: more competitive bid, as personal preference, I think you should take other than H9, and the squadrons/activations are great.

This list looks awesome, and I wonder if, now that we've seen the new hotness, this might not be amazing with Crix Madine? Pretty much just for the shrimps, since the others will probably be pushing squadrons, but being able to extra clicky might help keep the shrimps in the fight longer, or help them peace out.

I reckon you'll end up making Torryn farrs transport a combat retrofit. That blue dice anti squadron with reroll is great.

I reckon you'll end up making Torryn farrs transport a combat retrofit. That blue dice anti squadron with reroll is great.

Haha, that may well be--so far anti-squadron hasn't been much of a problem, but I haven't had a really strong fighter-on-fighter game yet. The closest was against a Rhymerball, but it was very heavy bombers/light fighters, so it withered pretty fast under the weight of 8 X-wings with Toryn.

Thing is, if they're committed enough to fighters that they can burn through my X's, their ships are very likely vulnerable enough to crumble to the MC30's, so... we'll see. The points are pretty tight as it is, not sure I can/want to cram in the points for the combat retrofit.

I reckon you'll end up making Torryn farrs transport a combat retrofit. That blue dice anti squadron with reroll is great.

Haha, that may well be--so far anti-squadron hasn't been much of a problem, but I haven't had a really strong fighter-on-fighter game yet. The closest was against a Rhymerball, but it was very heavy bombers/light fighters, so it withered pretty fast under the weight of 8 X-wings with Toryn.

Thing is, if they're committed enough to fighters that they can burn through my X's, their ships are very likely vulnerable enough to crumble to the MC30's, so... we'll see. The points are pretty tight as it is, not sure I can/want to cram in the points for the combat retrofit.

I guess I'd just be thinking about the imperial fighter combos Soontir/Dengar/howlrunner/Darth that could eat a chunk of your x-wings on an alpha strike and will take a bunch down even when you try to shoot back. Arguably you are better to use anti ship shots on them because you will probably win but it'll be expensive.

I reckon you'll end up making Torryn farrs transport a combat retrofit. That blue dice anti squadron with reroll is great.

Torynn does not affect the ship she is on

I reckon you'll end up making Torryn farrs transport a combat retrofit. That blue dice anti squadron with reroll is great.

Torynn does not affect the ship she is on

****... Well spotted