It's really not until something is typed out or spoken, liberated from the prison of one's mind, when it become real. And when challenged by others we are enabled to learn and grow. I've found my assumptions questioned and changed because of other people explaining to me where they've (the assumptions) gone wrong. I prefer using the word assumptions rather than opinions . Some have been kind and others not so much. I can appreciate both styles of response because growth, wisdom.

I love forums and the feisty ways people express themselves. I have seen people who identify way too strongly with a product lose their humanity on a forum. Gibson guitar lovers who attack Fender guitar enthusiasts, for instance. It can get quite silly. Where it becomes troubling is when someone finds the need to be right more important than the feelings of another person.

Agreeing to disagree is admitting to a failure in understanding. This happens. It's not the end of the world. But you might be able to convince me otherwise.

Right here is the differences.

I agree with everything you've said. Yet I believe assumption and opinion are the same as I've found opinions are usually founded upon assumptions. Whereas facts are based upon provable knowledge, experience and evidence.

Strange that I'm agreeing with you while sounding like I'm not. Human minds and ones own point of view makes for interesting conversation when you're not afraid of reading something contrary to your own perception of the norm.

Can an expansion of X-wing Minis actually be objectively good or bad?

Neither and both

Can an expansion of X-wing Minis actually be objectively good or bad?

It depends on how you're framing the problem. Given a set of reasonably objective criteria on which we ought to judge the expansion, and a set of standards that tell us what counts as good enough for each criterion, and a reasonably unbiased set of data about the expansion, sure we can.

Very few people here are doing any of that work, of course, so practically speaking the answer is no.

Agreeing to disagree is admitting to a failure in understanding.

I just can't agree. Two people can hold equally valid yet opposed opinions. When we're talking about something subjective there is no correct vs incorrect stance.

If you like olives on your pizza but I hate them... Should we get olives on a pizza? Does your desire for them trump my dislike of them.

How much time is it really worth debating, since there is quite literally nothing you can say or do that will change my mind? You can't make me like them, no amount of logic is going to change my mind...

The same can be said for most any subjective statement. If I say Band X is great, you can argue until the sun goes cold but you are unlikely to change my mind.

In those cases it's not a failure it's simply a difference in subjective opinions.

Yet I believe assumption and opinion are the same as I've found opinions are usually founded upon assumptions. Whereas facts are based upon provable knowledge, experience and evidence.

This is exactly the kind of conversation I like to have on a Friday afternoon.

I find myself both agreeing and disagreeing with your statement.

I think yes Facts are objective statements and can be proven. But opinions aren't always based on assumptions.

It's not an assumption that olives taste bad, and it's also not an assumption that a given band or style of music is good. Those are opinions I've formed based on exposure and experience. They're completely subjective and may only be true for me, but that doesn't make them untrue, or based on an assumption.

If I say olives taste bad, and have never eaten one... Yes that is an assumption, and there is little doubt that many opinions are formed at least in part based on assumptions. But not all of them are.

... that clickbait thread names are annoying? Yes, yes we can...oh, that's not what we're talking about in here? Nevermind then...

Can an expansion of X-wing Minis actually be objectively good or bad?

It depends on how you're framing the problem. Given a set of reasonably objective criteria on which we ought to judge the expansion, and a set of standards that tell us what counts as good enough for each criterion, and a reasonably unbiased set of data about the expansion, sure we can.

Very few people here are doing any of that work, of course, so practically speaking the answer is no.

I guess I'll also add the criteria that we don't really know most of what the expansion includes either.

I remember the days when everyone knew that agreeing to disagree was just a cop out - a way for an intellectual coward (or lightweight), to attempt to bow out of situation that was going to expose their opinion for what it was.

Sigh

These millennials. They've convinced themselves that all opinions are equal in order to avoid the hard work of sharpening one another's epistemology (or lack thereof).

I like it when people discuss the merits and flaws of various opinions that are floated around, and could care less for anti-intellectualism, even when it is dressed up as being polite.

/unrelated vent over.

I feel like you are me. Maybe from the future, or even a present version from an alternate dimension, but from the comment I'm going with definitely me. Final answer.

Agreeing to disagree is admitting to a failure in understanding.

I just can't agree. Two people can hold equally valid yet opposed opinions. When we're talking about something subjective there is no correct vs incorrect stance.

If you like olives on your pizza but I hate them... Should we get olives on a pizza? Does your desire for them trump my dislike of them.

How much time is it really worth debating, since there is quite literally nothing you can say or do that will change my mind? You can't make me like them, no amount of logic is going to change my mind...

The same can be said for most any subjective statement. If I say Band X is great, you can argue until the sun goes cold but you are unlikely to change my mind.

In those cases it's not a failure it's simply a difference in subjective opinions.

Correct

And that is what "agreeing to disagree" should be used for. For things which are personal choice or taste that is not really important enough to warrent a debate.

Remembering of course that a FFG X-Wing forum is the place to discuss and debate the game and it's expansions. Not "important" in the vast cosmic scheme of things, but "important" to those of us invested financially and emotionally in the hobby.

Yet I believe assumption and opinion are the same as I've found opinions are usually founded upon assumptions. Whereas facts are based upon provable knowledge, experience and evidence.

This is exactly the kind of conversation I like to have on a Friday afternoon.

I find myself both agreeing and disagreeing with your statement.

I think yes Facts are objective statements and can be proven. But opinions aren't always based on assumptions.

It's not an assumption that olives taste bad, and it's also not an assumption that a given band or style of music is good. Those are opinions I've formed based on exposure and experience. They're completely subjective and may only be true for me, but that doesn't make them untrue, or based on an assumption.

If I say olives taste bad, and have never eaten one... Yes that is an assumption, and there is little doubt that many opinions are formed at least in part based on assumptions. But not all of them are.

I've tasted olives and have the knowledge and experience to say: "yuck!"

I remember the days when everyone knew that agreeing to disagree was just a cop out - a way for an intellectual coward (or lightweight), to attempt to bow out of situation that was going to expose their opinion for what it was.

Sigh

These millennials. They've convinced themselves that all opinions are equal in order to avoid the hard work of sharpening one another's epistemology (or lack thereof).

I like it when people discuss the merits and flaws of various opinions that are floated around, and could care less for anti-intellectualism, even when it is dressed up as being polite.

/unrelated vent over.

I feel like you are me. Maybe from the future, or even a present version from an alternate dimension, but from the comment I'm going with definitely me. Final answer.

We agreed together in your future, not to discuss it together.

All I care about is that FFG makes THE BEST STAR WARS SPACESHIP GAME ON EARTH!

Keep at it my fine fellows.

That would be TIE Fighter: Collector's Edition (honourable mention goes to Rogue Squadron 64).

Can an expansion of X-wing Minis actually be objectively good or bad?

Yes... and the newest is a blatant cash grab that sets a couple of bad precedents. Will I buy it? Yes. Do I have to like it or validate other people's liking of it? Absolutely not.

and the newest is a blatant cash grab

Do you expect people to actually take you serious when you use loaded and completely inaccurate terms like that?

These millennials.

I don't think it's entirely fair to lay this all on millenials. People have always sorted themselves into relatively homogeneous communities, sometimes by force. Millennials have the advantage, or possibly disadvantage, of being connected to more people than anyone could feasibly have dreamed of even fifty years ago.

So that sorting, too, is more on display than it ever has been. And while some of it certainly comes under the heading of "don't make me question my pre-existing commitments and assumptions", another large portion is that more defensible shrug directed toward the un-convincible.

To give an only slightly fictionalized example, what happens if I'm in a Facebook conversation about diabetes, and a friend of a friend jumps in to tell us that diabetes is actually a syndrome caused by the breakdown of healthy enzymes and vitamin complexes in cooked food. Am I obligated to spend hours trying to engage with this unabashed evangelist of pseudoscience, who isn't actually interested in biochemistry or the pathophysiology of autoimmune disease? Of course not.

My mistake. Reading comprehension isn't what it used to be, so for those of you who may have missed it...

According to " A Dictionary of Literary Devices: Gradus, A-Z ", by By Bernard Marie Dupriez, the literary device I was employing is called "Generalization".

" A generalization, in the term's current meaning, extends over a large number of cases an observation which has only been verified in a few, sometimes only in a single one (Ab uno disce omnes). "

It may be the first time some of you (Millennials) have been exposed to this concept, but... it is okay to use generalization.

Generalization is a perfectly legitimate literary device to use when it conveys the intent of the author. It isn't used to suggest an all-encompassing view that has no possible exceptions.

To be certain, by using generalization, I wasn't suggesting that the Millennials (alone) were the sole practitioners of the aforementioned intellectual pusillanimity. The cast of characters, by no means is limited to those who have been spoon-fed this sort of relativism from the cradle, even if they (i.e. the Millennials) comprise the Lion's share of that particular population. In other words: even in employing this common literary device, the reader should understand that I was including others in the group who have adopted a relativistic epistemological mindset through their own efforts or preferences.

Sorry for the confusion.

All I care about is that FFG makes THE BEST STAR WARS SPACESHIP GAME ON EARTH!

Keep at it my fine fellows.

That would be TIE Fighter: Collector's Edition (honourable mention goes to Rogue Squadron 64).

NOT... a MINIATURES Game my Brah, but yeah that one IS great in it's way too.

Agreeing to disagree is admitting to a failure in understanding.

I just can't agree. Two people can hold equally valid yet opposed opinions. When we're talking about something subjective there is no correct vs incorrect stance.

If that's the case, there's really no need to acknowledge disagreement, hence the failure of understanding. (We're working toward agreeing to disagree, can't you tell?)

All I care about is that FFG makes THE BEST STAR WARS SPACESHIP GAME ON EARTH!

Keep at it my fine fellows.

That would be TIE Fighter: Collector's Edition (honourable mention goes to Rogue Squadron 64).

I don't understand this forums recent (is it only recent?) obsession with finding objective truth in every little detail of anything that happens to the game.

This thread was "Hey guys lets be respectful and accept that opinions of preference exist across the spectrum" was nearly immediately responded to with "Generalization of an unrelated social stereotype is ruining everything and you are part of the problem".

Another thread: "Rey shouldn't be PS8 because she's new to piloting things and this has to be representative of this exact snapshot in time based on the movie we all saw"

A common thread subject: "Metagame and competition is ruining what X-Wing stands for"

All opinions ARE equal. The problem I've seen in our society, across literally every generation I've ever been in contact with is that people are confusing "opinion" and "fact".

Whether or not the most recent expac is bad for the game is an "opinion". Under very specific and defined terms, you could maybe figure out some sort of near objective truth, but that only stands as long as the presumptions the measurement of what is good or bad stands.

This is why we can't have nice things.

and the newest is a blatant cash grab

Do you expect people to actually take you serious when you use loaded and completely inaccurate terms like that?

It is sufficiently accurate but whether or not I'm taken seriously on a forum about toy spaceships is kinda low on my care list. Unlike some folk I don't need validation of my opinions.

Unlike some folk I don't need validation of my opinions.

If that were actually true, you wouldn't of posted what you did in this thread.