Half a year ago FFG settled the XI-7 vs AP debate in favor of XI-7s, at which point it seemed like everyone dropped AP and switched to ECM. Now that some time has passed and the XI-7 auto-include fad is passing, are any of you considering using APs again?

I don't because I'm an imperial and Ecm is right arm of isd-2

It is nice when using both ECMs and AP on a tricked out MC80 Assualt Crusier where you place it last and away from the ship(s) with X-17s. I like it on MC30s sometimes as well but that is it. I do wish the X-17s costs a bit more, but Ceste la Vie.

Not at this time.

I find ECM is invaluable in msot matchups, with one notable exception: Fighting the fully loaded Demolisher (aka Clonisher), which couldn't care less.

If the Clonisher becomes even more popular, I'll probably consider moving back to AP --or just spamming disposable naked ships, but at the moment it's only featured in my opponent's lists about half of the time.

I guess you have to ask your self do you want to use the Brace when you need it or do you lose more shields?

I might put it on a MC80 because 2 redirects and a lot of shields but not sure yet

Not using advanced projectors causes you to lose commands by repairing to move shields from one side to another.

I used them with good success in the past tournament on an Admonition MC30.

Reasoning behind the choice is I'm seeing less X17 around, mostly on ISDs or AF, and I think the TRC introduction gave another very good turbolaser option.

I don't really see AP on any other ship except MC30 and, more rarely, on assault MC80, as ECM is still the top choice for guppies, "regular" MC80s and ISD2s.

I like them. Even in a world of XI7s, it is very useful against heavy bombers/anyone that has corvette spam/gladiators. I think they are best on ships with redundant evades so lockdown is less likely. Even with XI7s, you can still redirect to the opposite hull zone, so at least you still get a benefit.

I don't use either APs or ECMs, but I like to live dangerously.

I think they are more viable on Rebel ships at the moment. Like the MC-30 and MC-80.

An MC30 Admonition is probably the best case for AP. Foresight's title mostly duplicates what AP does, so Foresight gets ECM. Admonition gets AP (when I use it). The MC30 is unique in that a single accuracy really doesn't do you much good, unless coupled with Intel Officer. Clonisher builds generally aren't going to see an Acc along with their IO, so I can (generally) use both of my defense tokens. And other builds that tend to use xi7's are usually small enough in number (ie, ISD or MC80 anchor ship fleets) that I have enough deployments and maneuverability to make sure I'm not sending Admonition up against ships that it will fold against.

An MC30 Admonition is probably the best case for AP. Foresight's title mostly duplicates what AP does anyway. So Foresight gets ECM. Admonition gets AP (when I use it). The MC30 is unique in that a single accuracy really doesn't do you much good, unless couple with Intel Officer. Clonisher builds generally aren't going to see an Acc + IO, and other builds that tend to use xi7's are usually small enough in number (ie, ISD or MC80 anchor ship fleets) that I have enough deployments and maneuverability to make sure I'm not sending Admonition up against ships that it will fold against.

I've actually been using AP instead of Foresight because Foresight is really only useful with Mon Mothma, unless you stay at red range the whole game and if you're doing that, I'm not sure why you wouldn't just fly an AF Mk II. AP is 6 points cheaper, too, and it does one better by letting you redirect to all three hull zones if needed.

An MC30 Admonition is probably the best case for AP. Foresight's title mostly duplicates what AP does anyway. So Foresight gets ECM. Admonition gets AP (when I use it). The MC30 is unique in that a single accuracy really doesn't do you much good, unless couple with Intel Officer. Clonisher builds generally aren't going to see an Acc + IO, and other builds that tend to use xi7's are usually small enough in number (ie, ISD or MC80 anchor ship fleets) that I have enough deployments and maneuverability to make sure I'm not sending Admonition up against ships that it will fold against.

I've actually been using AP instead of Foresight because Foresight is really only useful with Mon Mothma, unless you stay at red range the whole game and if you're doing that, I'm not sure why you wouldn't just fly an AF Mk II. AP is 6 points cheaper, too, and it does one better by letting you redirect to all three hull zones if needed.

Right. Well Mothie is my preferred Commander right now, so you have that. Mon Mothma + Titled MC30's + ECM/AP (depending on title) is pretty much the ultimate in knowing that you're going to be able to survive the rush in to deliver your massive payload.

If you'd rather sit back and pewpew red, keeping an MC30 to puppyguard your battleships, for example, then yes, I would agree, Foresight may not be necessary.

FWIW, about 1/3rd of fleets at Regionals have been bringing XI7s.

An MC30 Admonition is probably the best case for AP. Foresight's title mostly duplicates what AP does anyway. So Foresight gets ECM. Admonition gets AP (when I use it). The MC30 is unique in that a single accuracy really doesn't do you much good, unless couple with Intel Officer. Clonisher builds generally aren't going to see an Acc + IO, and other builds that tend to use xi7's are usually small enough in number (ie, ISD or MC80 anchor ship fleets) that I have enough deployments and maneuverability to make sure I'm not sending Admonition up against ships that it will fold against.

I've actually been using AP instead of Foresight because Foresight is really only useful with Mon Mothma, unless you stay at red range the whole game and if you're doing that, I'm not sure why you wouldn't just fly an AF Mk II. AP is 6 points cheaper, too, and it does one better by letting you redirect to all three hull zones if needed.

Right. Well Mothie is my preferred Commander right now, so you have that. Mon Mothma + Titled MC30's + ECM/AP (depending on title) is pretty much the ultimate in knowing that you're going to be able to survive the rush in to deliver your massive payload.

If you'd rather sit back and pewpew red, keeping an MC30 to puppyguard your battleships, for example, then yes, I would agree, Foresight may not be necessary.

Oh, Mon Mothma is my go-to as well, and I most definitely take both titles when I use her. But in messing with Rieekan and MC30s, I found that I get better mileage without Foresight and adding AP.

FWIW, about 1/3rd of fleets at Regionals have been bringing XI7s.

That's actually a LOT less than I would have expected. (2/3 to 3/4)

FWIW, about 1/3rd of fleets at Regionals have been bringing XI7s.

That's actually a LOT less than I would have expected. (2/3 to 3/4)

So, Lyr, how many XI7's did you see at the regional?

So, Lyr, how many XI7's did you see at the regional?

It is a great card but you need to have it in mind when you build.

Personally, with all the dice flying around ECM is always defensive upgrade #1. However, I've been been thinking about swapping out redundant shields on Defiance Assault MC80. Defiance takes a lot of fire and AP works wonders against Demolishers and TRC90s.

Honestly, I think they should undo the FAQ on X17 and revert to letting you redirect one to every other section. That means people might be obliged to actually take the Heavy Turbolasers for once. X17 would still be good, just not auto include.

The switch at the beginning of wave 2 had nothing to do with x-I7s or the ruling. It was because in wave 1, you had to survive shots from glads and assault frigs that had high damage, but basically no accuracy results. In wave 2, Mid range attacks from mc80s and isds meant an accuracy to turn off your brace AND high damage. Thus the change. If people are starting to go back to projectors, then theoretically it means that they fear the large base ships less than they did a few months ago (perhaps based on their local meta etc. now that wave 2 is old news).

Personally, with all the dice flying around ECM is always defensive upgrade #1. However, I've been been thinking about swapping out redundant shields on Defiance Assault MC80. Defiance takes a lot of fire and AP works wonders against Demolishers and TRC90s.

Honestly, I think they should undo the FAQ on X17 and revert to letting you redirect one to every other section. That means people might be obliged to actually take the Heavy Turbolasers for once. X17 would still be good, just not auto include.

Most people on here believe redundant shields is a very bad card for the points. I agree. There just aren't that many turns.

Personally, with all the dice flying around ECM is always defensive upgrade #1. However, I've been been thinking about swapping out redundant shields on Defiance Assault MC80. Defiance takes a lot of fire and AP works wonders against Demolishers and TRC90s.

Honestly, I think they should undo the FAQ on X17 and revert to letting you redirect one to every other section. That means people might be obliged to actually take the Heavy Turbolasers for once. X17 would still be good, just not auto include.

Most people on here believe redundant shields is a very bad card for the points. I agree. There just aren't that many turns.

I agree it's garbage on it's own. On an fully kitted out Defiance w/ECM it's saved my bacon at least 3 times. It's sort of like a free engineering token every turn.

You can reduce any card back to "How much extra damage does it allow me to do or how much extra damage does it allow me to take?"

On ECM versus Advanced Projectors versus Redundant Shields, it comes down to meta and what kinds of fleets you expect:

You pay 7 points for an ECM that mainly protects your fleet against really big shots that stem from red/blue dice. Most of those shots will have an accuracy to spend and will cause 4+ damage, and may cause 6+ or 8+ with the right upgrades. Even in fleets with few red/blue dice, the random accuracy can really mess up the big shots. What ECM is weak against is when you a fleet that does a lot of damage in short bursts. A large number of 3 damage shots can really bring down a big ship and make those ECM points largely worthless. I think the big benefit of ECM is that you can usually get 2-4 points of saved damage out of it even in the worst of match-ups, and that's still some good use out it.

Advanced Projectors is nice when you've got the redirects and the shields to take a couple of hits without absorbing hull damage. I think the difficulty is that you either have XI7 or something like Demolisher that does a huge amount of damage all at once, especially if its got back-up. You burn all of your shields, yes. I just happen to see so many fleets without Advanced Projectors that still do a decent job of burning all the shield points, which makes me wonder how effective the upgrade really is.

Redundant Shields is the most expensive at 8 points, and yes that feeling of a free engineering token every turn is nice. Yes, there is a general trend against it in the community. I think some of that might be general bias. After all, we're more likely to take some of the offensive upgrades that add dice even though if a given ship is destroyed, it may have only thrown those extra dice once or twice, which is to say that as upgrades, they weren't necessarily worse than the shield regen over a couple of turns. In the ideal world, if you've got enough defense that your opponent is going to take multiple turns to take your ship down, then I think it becomes worth it. The potential is not merely that you forced him to do an extra three damage, but also, if your ship is alive even one round longer and continuing to throw dice at the enemy, you're picking up all of that additional damage as well. Granted, I'm still not sold on them entirely, but any game like this is a largely a math problem. And a Defiance/Assault MC80 is definitely one of the places where Redundant Shields is a sensible pick.

I feel that all 3 are weak to TRC90 spam

I destroyed a MC80 with Advanced Projectors with a combination of attacks from a CR90 and 2 MC30's. The fact that I could push 8-10 damage the turn prior to soften it up with my TRC's helped a lot. It also mitigated his redirects becuase they were in small bursts