Within my meta there has been a discussion floating around recently that basically states that some ships/pilots/upgrades are dead.

Now before we continue let me clarify: Dead = Never worth using. Ever.

Some things that have been thrown around are things like generic Phantoms, Luke Skywalker without R2, any E-wing but Corran etc....
It's got me curious, what would you consign to the depth of uselessness and why?

personally given up on any squad that doesn't at least have full mods + automatic damage in some form

but that's just because of my dice

sadly, that's basically everything that's not a K-wing, ghost, jumpmaster or imperial ace

Xizor would qualify if the poor guy could get any good help these days

Before yesterday, I would have insisted that nothing was truly dead, merely dormant.

Now, the outer rim smuggler is safely buried. Though I believe in a shallow grave.

The new Rebels xpac does bring into the spot light the argument of "Old Han/Chewbaca" vs "New Han/Chewbacca". Im curious to see how that works out though I doubt Chewey will die easy.....he never does.

Before yesterday, I would have insisted that nothing was truly dead, merely dormant.

Now, the outer rim smuggler is safely buried. Though I believe in a shallow grave.

Agree with this. Nothing in the game is so awful and outclassed that it can't see play in even a casual game. With the reveal of a new generic YT-1300 in HotR though, especially if that generic has the same statline as the ORS and it is costed correctly, it's almost certain that the ORS will be the first ship to be absolutely pointless to use.

Not even Major Rhymer is wholly buried. He's still loads of fun with PTL, APTs, EM and mk2.

Fel's Wrath and Lt. Lorrir.

Even Kir Kanos can now be fun with some Bomber/shuttle support.

Winged Gundark.

ORS are fun in 30-35 point free for alls.

Saboteur.

Ten numb

Let's see, from the Rank F stuff I've accumulated - by the way, Rank F is "Broken" stuff, that is obsoleted so bad there's never a reason to take it when you could reach for something else, or never worked right in the first place.

TIE/Interceptors: Avenger/Saber Squadron Pilots (straight obsoleted by the RGP), Fel's Wrath, Lt. Lorrir, Tetran Cowell - all of which suffer from the "I'm not Soontir, what do I bring to the table? Nothing? Well, okay, I'll sit in your binder then... unloved..."

TIE Fighter: Obsidian Squadron Pilot (why would you EVER take this when you could take a BSP with Crackshot for 2 points more, or Wampa for 1 point more?)

TIE/FOs: Zeta Squadron Pilots, same deal as the one above but costing the same as a CrackBlack.

TIE/Phantoms and Punishers: Generic pilots. They rely too much on high PS both for getting shots off AND dodging enemy fire.

TIE/Bombers: Gamma Squadron Pilots, with the new Gamma Vets at 1 point more getting an EPT (Deadeye), what's the point?

Imperial Firesprays: Scarlet. There are SO MANY WAYS to inflict Stress these days, especially for the Empire, that using her is an exercise in masochism: "how hard do I want to make this wierd, bad pilot work?"

Alliance HWK: Jan Ors, the HWKs are pretty marginal to begin with, but she's really expensive in a very frail ship which also does not take stress well, and her ability involves taking stress?

YT1300: Outer Rim Smuggler, overpriced, underarmed, and created before FFG knew how to price ships, large ships especially.

X-Wing: Jek Porkins. This card is just BAD. There are, first of all, only a few ways to stress an X-Wing, making it hard to use his ability so he's mostly just a generic PS7 X-Wing pilot. But if he DOES get stressed, then that 3/8 chance of damaging his ship and taking away 1/6 of his life (with IA) is just downright horrible!

Scum HWK: Dace Bonearm. At his basic level (with Ion Cannon), he's 28 points for a 5 HP/2 AGI ship at PS7; and he needs other items just to become okay, for an ability that is not good and easily replicated by Feedback Arrays. Plus, his name sounds like what a 13 year old would come up with for the frontman of his imaginary heavy metal band.

Kihrahz: Graz the Hunter. If he didn't fly like a brick and wasn't pitifully easy to outmaneuver at PS6, his ability might actually be relevant. On another ship he'd be great. Here? Not so much. Plus, green dice are treacherous.

Scyk: Uh, yes? But Leatin deserves special mention. Her ability is almost the definition of "Winmore": "You didn't hit me? Well, I get an evade token!" It'd be better if it read something like, "If during the Compare Results step at least one damage would be dealt, add an Evade Token to this ship immediately."

Generic phantoms are actually okay.

Generic phantoms are actually okay.

No, they're ****. It was hammered home for me recently in that Heroes of the Aturi Cluster scenario where you have to fight two of them at PS3 - and only one of our players was at or below their PS. Yes, they ruined HIM, but with only two AGI defending 4 HP it was NOT hard to quickly destroy them.

At least the higher PS ones (echo, whisper) can arc dodge and use ATC to defend themselves. Even with the Stygian Particle Accelerator one Evade token is not enough for the kind of hate that a Phantom brings.

They're good in Epic. A squad of them with Sensor Jammer and Stygian are a real pain for a Epic ship to deal with and their natural 4 dice attack whail on Epic ships.

I say Krassis Trelix is pretty much an all-around bad idea to buy into these days.

Fels Wrath

Absolutely useless.

It's alle fun!

Though I still have to use the saboteur yet;)

Ten numb

Not a chance. He may not be as competitive as he used to be in the current meta, but he is far from dead and buried. The ability to guarantee damage means he'll never be completely gone.

Alliance HWK: Jan Ors, the HWKs are pretty marginal to begin with, but she's really expensive in a very frail ship which also does not take stress well, and her ability involves taking stress?

I had to single out Jan here; she may not be the most competitive option, but she has a very solid ability. Far from dead and buried. I've seen her in some excellent lists.

ORS is dead.

Captain Jonus: His ability cannot compete with guidance chips or long range scanners

Red Line: When having FCS and guidance chips, his ability is now more or less worthless

Generic phantoms are actually okay.

No, they're ****. It was hammered home for me recently in that Heroes of the Aturi Cluster scenario where you have to fight two of them at PS3 - and only one of our players was at or below their PS. Yes, they ruined HIM, but with only two AGI defending 4 HP it was NOT hard to quickly destroy them.

At least the higher PS ones (echo, whisper) can arc dodge and use ATC to defend themselves. Even with the Stygian Particle Accelerator one Evade token is not enough for the kind of hate that a Phantom brings.

I'm going to have to disagree with you. While the meta has changed quite drastically, at regionals last year I took 3rd with Carnor and two sigmas (80 players) and 4th at the French national (120). Crackswarms and U-boats are a concern now but I plan on reviving the list to see how it fares and perhaps I'll make a few changes. One thing I will give you is that it's the least forgiving list I've ever flown as the sigmas go pop the moment I mess up.

I am so disgusted with the ranking data. It just doesn't make any sense as to what we've seen be capable.

Sigmas are pretty brutal. And I'd consider the PS5s in this meta against scouts.

Countermeasures

!

No, they're ****. It was hammered home for me recently in that Heroes of the Aturi Cluster scenario where you have to fight two of them at PS3 - and only one of our players was at or below their PS. Yes, they ruined HIM, but with only two AGI defending 4 HP it was NOT hard to quickly destroy them.

At least the higher PS ones (echo, whisper) can arc dodge and use ATC to defend themselves. Even with the Stygian Particle Accelerator one Evade token is not enough for the kind of hate that a Phantom brings.

That sounds more like a problem with the Phantom player than it does the ship.

Captain Jonus: His ability cannot compete with guidance chips or long range scanners

Red Line: When having FCS and guidance chips, his ability is now more or less worthless

I think that Jonus might have a new lease on life with the shuttle title. He effects all secondary weapons, so cannons get the buff too remember. Give him fleet officer and/or system officer and he can offer alot to a squad.

There are a few I don't see getting used. Outer Rim Smuggler & Fel's Wrath being the obvious ones.

Luke Skywalker without R2

I've actually seen him recently. R2-F2 and Lone Wolf. No shield regeneration but he's an unmitigated bugger to hit in an head-on pass, which you don't expect from an X-wing.

Not even Major Rhymer is wholly buried. He's still loads of fun with PTL, APTs, EM and mk2

.Advanced Homing Missiles are even cheaper and really disturbingly good with the Major. Range 1-3 on a shield-piercing weapon makes incredibly good use of his ability, and it only needs a target lock to get a modified shot, meaning something like crack shot is available.

Ten numb

Needs protecting, but armed with a Mangler Cannon is able to make Soontir Fel cry, and that alone is worth considering in a game so heavily dominated by the Baron.