Dengar's ability is : "Once per round after defending..."
If Dengar is destroyed by an attack, can he shoot back the attaquer ?
It depends of the pilot value of the attaquer or not ? of the Initiative ?
Thanks for your answers.
Nope. Dengar is removed from the board before his ability can trigger.
The case of simultaneous fire when Dengar does not have initiative is unclear. How the opportunity to attack granted by Dengar's counter-attack interacts with simultaneous fire could go a few different ways.
Nope. Dengar is removed from the board before his ability can trigger.
The case of simultaneous fire when Dengar does not have initiative is unclear. How the opportunity to attack granted by Dengar's counter-attack interacts with simultaneous fire could go a few different ways.
I'd argue the following on simultaneous fire:
If Dengar has already resolved his attack, he doesn't get to fire back.
If Dengar has not yet resolved his attack, he does.
The rule is as follows (with bolds for the relevant sections supporting my stance)
"Simultaneous Attack Rule Although ships perform their attacks one at a time, ships with a pilot skill value equal to the active ship’s pilot skill value have the opportunity to attack before being destroyed. If such a ship would be destroyed, it simply retains its Damage cards without being removed from the play area. It may perform an attack as normal during the Combat phase, although any faceup Damage cards just dealt to it may affect this attack. After this ship has had its opportunity to attack this round, it is immediately destroyed and removed from the play area."
If Dengar has attacked, he's had his opportunity to attack so he's gone.
Nope. Dengar is removed from the board before his ability can trigger.
The case of simultaneous fire when Dengar does not have initiative is unclear. How the opportunity to attack granted by Dengar's counter-attack interacts with simultaneous fire could go a few different ways.
I'd argue the following on simultaneous fire:
If Dengar has already resolved his attack, he doesn't get to fire back.
If Dengar has not yet resolved his attack, he does.
The rule is as follows (with bolds for the relevant sections supporting my stance)
"Simultaneous Attack Rule Although ships perform their attacks one at a time, ships with a pilot skill value equal to the active ship’s pilot skill value have the opportunity to attack before being destroyed. If such a ship would be destroyed, it simply retains its Damage cards without being removed from the play area. It may perform an attack as normal during the Combat phase, although any faceup Damage cards just dealt to it may affect this attack. After this ship has had its opportunity to attack this round, it is immediately destroyed and removed from the play area."
If Dengar has attacked, he's had his opportunity to attack so he's gone.
Here's some of the problems with Dengar and simultaneous fire.
For these examples Dengar doesn't have initiative and is fighting VI Whisper and Soontir Fel. Whisper is at range 3 in arc and Soontir Fel is out of arc at range one.
1. Whisper attacks Dengar. Since Whisper is in Dengar's arc Dengar counter-attacks. Soontir attacks Dengar and deals enough damage to destroy him. Since Dengar has already had an opportunity to attack is he immediately removed from the board or does he get to make his normal attack?
2. Whisper attacks Dengar and deals enough damage to destroy him. Since Whisper is in Dengar's arc Dengar counter-attacks. Is Dengar removed as soon as the counter-attack is resolved?
3. Whisper attacks Dengar and deals enough damage to destroy him. Since Whisper is in Dengar's arc Dengar could counter attack but would rather attack a low health Soontir Fel at range one. If Dengar decides not to make a counter-attack against Whisper is he immediately removed because he had an opportunity to attack and chose not to take it?
All of these hinge on whether or not simultaneous fire cares if the ship being destroyed has had the opportunity to attack that is part of the combat phase activation or if any opportunity to attack will do. FAQ rules for Corran Horn and the Blinded Pilot crit (TFA version) establish that extra attacks in a round are opportunities to attack.
I asked FFG this same question, with the added twist of R5-P8 on Dengar. Still no response so far...
I asked FFG this same question, with the added twist of R5-P8 on Dengar. Still no response so far...
They seem to answer questions in spurts. I haven't gotten any responses in the past few weeks.
Here's some of the problems with Dengar and simultaneous fire.
For these examples Dengar doesn't have initiative and is fighting VI Whisper and Soontir Fel. Whisper is at range 3 in arc and Soontir Fel is out of arc at range one.
1. Whisper attacks Dengar. Since Whisper is in Dengar's arc Dengar counter-attacks. Soontir attacks Dengar and deals enough damage to destroy him. Since Dengar has already had an opportunity to attack is he immediately removed from the board or does he get to make his normal attack?
2. Whisper attacks Dengar and deals enough damage to destroy him. Since Whisper is in Dengar's arc Dengar counter-attacks. Is Dengar removed as soon as the counter-attack is resolved?
3. Whisper attacks Dengar and deals enough damage to destroy him. Since Whisper is in Dengar's arc Dengar could counter attack but would rather attack a low health Soontir Fel at range one. If Dengar decides not to make a counter-attack against Whisper is he immediately removed because he had an opportunity to attack and chose not to take it?
All of these hinge on whether or not simultaneous fire cares if the ship being destroyed has had the opportunity to attack that is part of the combat phase activation or if any opportunity to attack will do. FAQ rules for Corran Horn and the Blinded Pilot crit (TFA version) establish that extra attacks in a round are opportunities to attack.
Fair questions, and ones that indeed need clarifying. The difficulty coming from one pesky little sentence on page 16 of the rulebook:
"It may perform an attack as normal during the Combat phase"
Without that sentence I'd say it was clear - an opportunity to attack is an opportunity to attack, so if he's used his ability ("you may perform an attack") then he's treated as having had a go that turn.
That sentence muddies it slightly for me, but not enough to change my original thought if push-came-to-shove and I had to make a judgement call; Dengar doesn't get to fire back as long as he's had an opportunity to attack.
So my interpretation for your 3 examples are as follows:
1. He's removed straight away, he's had a chance to attack this turn.
2. Yeah ,once he's counter-attacked then he's removed.
3. He's had his opportunity to attack, he's gone - you can't keep other people alive during simultaneous fire by refusing to shoot when it's your turn, nor can you Dengar.
Again, this is just how I personally interpret it, and because of that one little "as normal" phrasing I could well be wrong, I await an official stance from FFG.
Edited by Stu35
I asked FFG this same question, with the added twist of R5-P8 on Dengar. Still no response so far...
They seem to answer questions in spurts. I haven't gotten any responses in the past few weeks.
I have noticed that the most "frequently asked questions" are sometimes not answered and simply delivered through the next FAQ.
I asked FFG this same question, with the added twist of R5-P8 on Dengar. Still no response so far...
They seem to answer questions in spurts. I haven't gotten any responses in the past few weeks.
I have noticed that the most "frequently asked questions" are sometimes not answered and simply delivered through the next FAQ.
But we just had a FAQ update that didn't mention it at all.