On 4/18/2018 at 5:34 AM, heychadwick said:

I just tried to download the latest version, but the link is bad. Anyone have the latest version from @DagobahDave ?

Should be working again. Sorry about that.

http://www.outworld-studio.com/xwing/pdf/Dagobah-Daves-Death-Star-Trench-Run-v3.pdf

9 hours ago, 2J-W said:

I really want a dice tower that looks like this.

Ok so work on the map assets is coming along great and now it's time to start redesigning the map layout.

I am going to post the next 3 replies with attached images and talk about what I am thinking

Here is Daves map from v3 to start:

And here is Biff's. I like it but it doesn't fit the standard 6 x 3 layout most people have built tables for and doesn't allow the map to be cut in half for use when not playing the scenario.

Ok forums won't let me upload more so I'll switch to Imgur.

Here is v1 of the mat that I designed. After placing Biff's trench overlay on top of the mat it's clear that the trench was not wide enough. In this picture with the overlay I made the trench a little bit wider. It can fit 3 small bases across with space for a maneuver template on each side. This would allow a ship to barrel roll in the Trench. My thoughts with 2.0 coming, I would take out the section about the Drift maneuver and allow ships to do a barrel roll but using the short end (like large ships do in 1.0). It uses the barrel roll action, but would be called a drift and allow rebel ships to get out of the bullseye arc on the new Tie Fighters.

The firing line on the exhaust port is at range 3, and the trench entry line is at range 3 from the board edge on the bottom.

I like what you are doing and what you are considering. Keep up the good work.

A few thoughts on the drift maneuever in relation to the 36 x 72 map you are creating, and what we know of the new edition rules:

1. Drift was designed to be a trade between forward progress and increased agility. Using a barrel roll may eliminate that trade/player decision point. With a longer trench, you may want to promote progress rather than present players with mechanics that slow progress down, so I see the virtue of the barrel roll.

2. Drift is not an action, it is a maneuver in itself. This still allows ships to perform other actions like lock, focus or evade. Use of barrel roll as an action for the drift limits other actions from being perform that might be critical while flying in the trench.

3. Barrel rolls can be red actions (I believe the Y-Wing’s barrel roll is red) for some ship types. This could effectively eliminate a barrel roll drift as an option for some ships as it will induce stress and limit progress or actions on following turns.

I love the idea of using native actions/mechanics within the game to provide the drift function. I look forward to see how this matures.

But the current drift maneuver doesn't move enough to the side to get out of a bull eyes arc. Also the x-wings can boost naively now so that would help with getting to the end of the trench. Just trying to think of ways to simplify the current instructions and try to eliminate special rules to make it easier to get people setup and playing. But it might really have to wait until we know more about 2.0.

Also on the Trench design, I've been toying with the idea of making the Trench not straight. To add in some more flying challenges to it. Maybe something like this:

The top 3' x 3' remains straight in the map design so that part could be used for quick demo versions of the Trench game and as a nice mat. The bottom part adds some twists and turns (Kinda like in Mario Kart X-Wing). With the new boost on X-wings it allows to fly in the trench a little faster and make some more interesting turns. Maybe for the Imperials the trench entry line get's moved up to compensate. (Like in the movie the Rebels are in the Trench first and longer then the Imperials.

Although not keeping in line with the movie, Star Wars Battlefront had the trench with turns, tunnels, and obstacles and made it pretty exciting to fly in. Way more challenging then just flying in a straight line. See here:

The turns are pretty cool. If you change the map image to be an internal view, you would have a Death Star II. Two missions in one!

Having the trench runner choose between boost and drift (barrel roll) actions is another way to trade off between progress and agility/out-of-bullseye. You are correct there.

Did the TIE get a boost as well? If not, I’m having flashbacks to the Engine Upgrade issues we ran into while playtesting DD’s original.

@Biff @2J-W I just re-read the v3 rules and you cannot Boost while in the Trench. Just FYI.

I have to admit that I kind of want to make an action that would allow your ship to straighten out in the Trench. I've seen people do Banks before and it always ends in disaster. I kind of like the idea of having an action that will allow you to straighten out to fly down the Trench. It would remove your action for the turn and not be too over powered, I think. If you bump, you can't do it.

I also re-read the rules and noticed the map change. I will be using @LagJanson 's Trench, which is awesome. It does have the original layout, though. So, I need to take the v3 and put it on the older map. So, if I do that, I presume I should just bump the Rebel starting position way up? And keep Imperial the same? I'll have to try it out soon.

I'll toss in as well - boosting has been bad for any implementation of a trench run scenario. Don't allow boosting in the trench. It breaks things. You can fluff away the reason pretty easily, considering the fighters are flying with 10-15 meters of space between the fighter and walls/floor of the trench. If you REALLY want to include the boost, make it a red action, to prevent the X-Wings outrunning the TIE fighters.

On 5/16/2018 at 11:29 PM, 2J-W said:

But the current drift maneuver doesn't move enough to the side to get out of a bull eyes arc.

That's true if the attacker has the target centered in their bullseye arc before the drift. But if the bullseye arc is only catching the edge of the target to begin with, the target can drift out of that arc, space permitting. It's not meant to be a get-out-of-trouble ability. And I'm not sure that bullseye arcs are all that scary anyway -- from everything I've seen of second edition, lots of ships will be getting no benefit from their bullseye arc without paying for an upgrade.

If there is something that is too powerful, then take it out or ban it. I can see Vader with Predator in the Trench be pretty mean.

I like the pre built list.

On ‎5‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 5:07 AM, Biff said:

The turns are pretty cool. If you change the map image to be an internal view, you would have a Death Star II. Two missions in one!

I second this! I have already printed a copy of the first layout, I would love a second one that's different graphics to play out the DS2 scenario.

Finished up the all the pieces for the construction kit.

Progress is being made on the layout in 3D. After playing around with corners it doesn't really fit with the trench run, thematically, and for this scenario complicates gameplay which I'm trying to simplify. Although maybe for a Beggar's canyon run or something in the future...

However I wanted to ask @Biff what's the reasoning behind having the Trench turrets at Range 1-2 instead of 2-3?

Could we simplify the rules and have all turrets at 2-3? Seems more thematic as well.

Turrets placed with attack range 1-2

Turrets placed with range 2-3:

On ‎5‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 9:38 AM, Darth Meanie said:

I would love a second one that's different graphics to play out the DS2 scenario.

I've got a working prototype for DS2 layout. There's a thread on here somewhere specific to it. I may throw it in the box for @Biff and @heychadwick to play around with at GenCon.

In my variant of DD’s original, the trench turrets had an attack range as printed on the trench overlay. If that happened to be range 1-2, that was a decision DD made, not me.

The thematics of limiting the surface turbos to R2-3 had to do with the gun’s ability to track the rebel fighters when crossing their fields of fire. In the trench, when primarily flying directly at the guns, tracking isn’t as much of an issue. It also had the effect of nerfing the surface turbos a bit (fewer attacks and elimination of the R1 bonus die ontop of the soft focus).

I would encourage you to give the trench turbo R2-3 concept a try. With the longer trench it could prove to be better.

Tried the newer version, but had older map to play on. So, let Rebels start at R2 and set up as below.

More to follow..

Rebel approach:

Imperials left the middle too open.

Round 1 had Rebels in the Trench and too many Tie Fighters to be able to go in. They could've been used in the middle.

The middle:

Left flank, but from Imps side:

The Y-wings blew up a node and caused everyone stress! Another node was blown up right after giving everyone double stress. At that moment, some Ties K-turned to fight the Y-wings and ended up triple stressed!

The entry turrets rolled amazingly well. After 2 turns, Biggs activates and blew to pieces, fulfilling his Destiny.

Dutch goes down!

Vader closes in on a fanboy from a desert planet (Luke). Is the Force strong with this one? No.....

Rebels blow up all 4 power nodes! No more turrets and no replacements if Imps ever lose a Tie.

Another Y-wing down!

Blowing up all the nodes early gave a false sense of security to blow things up on time. Wedge decides to slow roll to get Ties in front, but they start playing the bumping game to slow things down!

Another 3 X-wings dive into the Trench, but not enough time to get down there.

Rebels know they have 2 turns left. They don't think they can make it all the way down in time to fire. We measure and they are one base length out of firing range! No chance for a single shot!

The Rebels peel off and get out of town. Rebel base is destroyed. Imperials fly a victory lap for the holos.

Think I will try the game again with Turrets with no eyeball mods.

@DagobahDave the Trench Turrets roll 4 dice, yes? Tempted to make them 3. With them going first and much harder to kill, they get really deadly.

First time for a lot if players. Rebels didn't go fast enough down trench.

Nice job!