It's also very clear that Ren isn't actually trying to kill her which can be a tougher method of fighting.

I don't disagree with the fact that there's something missing from Rey's piloting in the movie and it's unfortunate it only made more sense after reading tie-in books. I think that's fair to point to as poor writing in the movie, but that doesn't mean that Rey was poorly written (I won't rehash many of the valid arguments above where there were scenes that set up her skill/expertise/knowledge, even if some were subtle).

Uhhh....yes. Yes that does mean exactly that thing. If there is poor writing for a character in the movie, it means the character (by definition) is "poorly written".

It's not like it would be IMPOSSIBLE to explain how Rey got her abilities - certainly, there are better pilots/force users/mechanics/etc than her in the series, already. It's just that the movie makes no attempt to do so at all. It doesn't even hint that there IS an explanation, just...*pow*...she's immediately perfect at everything she tries.

At least little Annie in the prequels had an "unusually high midichlorian count", which everyone groaned at, and didn't really get elaborated on...but it meant there was a reason he was closest-character-to-Rey's-level-of-unnaturally-good-at-everything.

The most common anti-midichlorian complaint is "WE DON'T NEED AN ANSWER TO EVERYTHING"

It's a crazy day when people start citing "Midichlorians" as good writing.

In regards to Rey if you read before the awakening it explains that she has logged a ton of time in a flight simulator she salvaged from a y-wing and knows how to fly a lot of different ships due to it. That + force abilities I can see the ps8

As SithHappenz posted, you should read the book "Star Wars: Before the Awakening" - this book will tell you how Rey learned to fly.

Being stuck in Jakku with nothing much to do, allowed her to practice flying many types of ships. She even tried simulations with scenarios of breakdowns or damage to ships, so that she can simulate repairs - this is how she is able to quickly find ways to fix the Millennium Falcon (in addition to her scavenging skills for ship parts) - this allowed her to have great flying skills as well as mechanic skills.

Find out more here:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Before_the_Awakening

Or buy the book

http://www.amazon.com/Before-Awakening-Star-Wars-Rucka/dp/148472822X

No if it's not in the movie it's not relevant.

They added that after the negative reaction to make her less sue, but it's too little too late because you from your impressions watching the movie.

• Something tells me that your theory is wrong.
• Publisher: Disney Lucasfilm Press; 1st edition (December 18, 2015)

In regards to Rey if you read before the awakening it explains that she has logged a ton of time in a flight simulator she salvaged from a y-wing and knows how to fly a lot of different ships due to it. That + force abilities I can see the ps8

As SithHappenz posted, you should read the book "Star Wars: Before the Awakening" - this book will tell you how Rey learned to fly.

Being stuck in Jakku with nothing much to do, allowed her to practice flying many types of ships. She even tried simulations with scenarios of breakdowns or damage to ships, so that she can simulate repairs - this is how she is able to quickly find ways to fix the Millennium Falcon (in addition to her scavenging skills for ship parts) - this allowed her to have great flying skills as well as mechanic skills.

Find out more here:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Before_the_Awakening

Or buy the book

http://www.amazon.com/Before-Awakening-Star-Wars-Rucka/dp/148472822X

One of the things that soured me towards the new film was that they nuked the old EU as part of it. Part of the reasoning behind that is a new film would be confusing to folks who hadn't read any of the books if it weren't jettisoned. But now that things in the new movie are confusing or unexplained the first fall back is to send us to a book. Aside from being ironic as all get out this to me reinforces the idea that the film is bad. If you need supplemental material because it isn't in the film you've taken shortcuts with the story and the characters and want to give the characters things they haven't earned.

I shouldn't be surprised that this is the road taken with this. It is exactly what this director did with another sci-fi property.

I do agree with the irony of removing EU and putting in new books. Well Disney now owns the IP.. they can change whatever they like ... i got nothing to nice to say on that.

But trying to put all the back story into a movie is going to dragggg it.... keeping it short and making us find new gems from comics, novels, games - things like some story about the Stormtrooper "Traitor!", why the heck does C3P0 have a red arm!?, etc .. (though.... it is costly on the wallet.) it helps while we wait for the next trilogy movie to come out.... (which is sooooo long away! ) ....

It's also very clear that Ren isn't actually trying to kill her which can be a tougher method of fighting.

I don't disagree with the fact that there's something missing from Rey's piloting in the movie and it's unfortunate it only made more sense after reading tie-in books. I think that's fair to point to as poor writing in the movie, but that doesn't mean that Rey was poorly written (I won't rehash many of the valid arguments above where there were scenes that set up her skill/expertise/knowledge, even if some were subtle).

Uhhh....yes. Yes that does mean exactly that thing. If there is poor writing for a character in the movie, it means the character (by definition) is "poorly written".

It's not like it would be IMPOSSIBLE to explain how Rey got her abilities - certainly, there are better pilots/force users/mechanics/etc than her in the series, already. It's just that the movie makes no attempt to do so at all. It doesn't even hint that there IS an explanation, just...*pow*...she's immediately perfect at everything she tries.

At least little Annie in the prequels had an "unusually high midichlorian count", which everyone groaned at, and didn't really get elaborated on...but it meant there was a reason he was closest-character-to-Rey's-level-of-unnaturally-good-at-everything.

The most common anti-midichlorian complaint is "WE DON'T NEED AN ANSWER TO EVERYTHING"

It's a crazy day when people start citing "Midichlorians" as good writing.

I didn't say it was good writing - indeed, it was pretty hacky writing. But at least it indicated there was an explanation. We got more of them in the OT - Luke's father was the 'greatest star pilot in the galaxy'...and he was pretty good flying, himself. So it would follow he could probably handle an X-Wing with some training (even though he still almost got shot down twice and had to be saved by Wedge then Han). Han Solo, himself, was a decent pilot - but had a long history as a smuggler, trained at the Imperial Academy, and even then screwed up pretty regularly. They didn't (at the time) go into detail what those things MEANT...but clearly indicated 'hey this character is pretty good, and there is a reason for it, we'll get to that later'.

Rey didn't even get anything as half-explained as 'unusually high midichlorians'.

No if it's not in the movie it's not relevant.

That might be a true statement if the books weren't canon. Except they are...

Christ on a bike I can't believe real people are still this upset about Rey.

She's awesome, she's good at things, and midichlorians. Done.

Saint Mary in an airspeeder, that's exactly what's wrong with her, she is too awesome and too good at (every)things and midichlorians.

Luke managed to be awesome, yet by no means perfect and self-sufficient, in the Battle of Yavin alone he was saved at least two times, not even counting Biggs' sacrifice and Integrated Astromech.

But what exactly is it that Rey is too good at?

Flying the Falcon(outflew Tie aces), fixing the Falcon(out-smarted Han), using the Force(overpowered Ren), saber dueling(defeated Ren)...she's amazing at everything that Luke took 3 movies to get decent at. One can infer that she's either had some sort of prior training and/or that she's "The Chosen One", but there is very little justification for her ability to do everything better than everyone else.

1. What makes you say these were TIE aces? Also she outflew them because she's memorized every nook and craney of that **** from scavenging it and knew where to dodge and where to turn.

2. It was obviously an accident. She legitimately stares off in wonderment after she does it like "Holy crap... did that actually work?" This is not her being amazing this is them trying to quickly figure something out and her happening to stumble upon the answer first. (While using her EXTENSIVE MECHANICS KNOWLEDGE)

3. She definitely is crazy powerful in the force, but "overpowering" is a bit of a stretch. She blocks him out of her mind and gets a small glimpse of his. I don't use the force but I would say defending your own mind takes less work than invading someone elses.

4. She was TERRIBLE at saber dueling. A) Kylo is injured at this point. B) Kylo just fought Finn at this point, while injured. C) Kylo Ren is no Darth Vader, he is very undisciplined himself. D) Rey's technique is 100% lacking and you can see it's because she's skilled at combat with a different weapon (staff), she pokes an prods while the saber flaps around. E) Kylo spends much too much time toying with her and not enough actually trying to fight while she is actually trying to win. F) Kylo Ren just killed his father, and as "evil" as he may be, it was a struggle to do that. He's exhausted, he's injured, he's emotional and he's cold. Hell he's so arrogant he actually gives her training while fighting her.

Why do people pretend Rey went in and destroyed Kylo Ren? She barely survived and it was almost all because of his own arrogance. She's strong in the force, strong in combat, but she's got a lot of training to go.

We can certainly guess, infer, theorize, and read tie-in books for days, but that doesn't change the problem that she was simply too good at everything. My problem isn't that she fixed the falcon, or flew the falcon, or used the force, or defeated Ren...my problem is that she did ALL of these things in the first movie with no in-movie justification. That's the definition of a Mary Sue. Luke spent 95% of the OT getting his ass kicked and getting saved, but happened to roll a crit on his trench roll due to divine intervention.

I fail to see how Rey mentioning she was a pilot is worse than the set up Luke got for being a pilot. Because she was more humble about it?

I don't think "20-something girl learned to be a super skilled pilot by flying MS Flight Simulator while she had nothing to do EXCEPT STRUGGLING TO SURVIVE ON A DESERT PLANET WHILE BEING AT THE SAME TIME POOR AS HELL AND GENEROUS TO OTHERS" requires any comments...

“What a piece of work is a man! How noble in reason! how infinite in faculty! in form, in moving, how express and admirable! in action how like an angel! in apprehension how like a god! the beauty of the world! the paragon of animals! And yet, to me, what is this quintessence of dust?”

In regards to Rey if you read before the awakening it explains that she has logged a ton of time in a flight simulator she salvaged from a y-wing and knows how to fly a lot of different ships due to it. That + force abilities I can see the ps8

As SithHappenz posted, you should read the book "Star Wars: Before the Awakening" - this book will tell you how Rey learned to fly.

Being stuck in Jakku with nothing much to do, allowed her to practice flying many types of ships. She even tried simulations with scenarios of breakdowns or damage to ships, so that she can simulate repairs - this is how she is able to quickly find ways to fix the Millennium Falcon (in addition to her scavenging skills for ship parts) - this allowed her to have great flying skills as well as mechanic skills.

Find out more here:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Before_the_Awakening

Or buy the book

http://www.amazon.com/Before-Awakening-Star-Wars-Rucka/dp/148472822X

No if it's not in the movie it's not relevant.

They added that after the negative reaction to make her less sue, but it's too little too late because you from your impressions watching the movie.

Not in the movie not relevant? errr.. that would make Soontir Fel, Outrider, Defenders, etc. all not relevant...

The book was offically published in Dec 18, the same day as the official movie release... i don't think, they can magically reprint the books to make her less sue in the same day.... "the force doesn't work like that"

You do know that the creators of the tie-in merchandise get to see scripts or rough cuts or various other things so that they know to a reasonably accurate degree what is in it. The film and what they want to do comes first. The tie-ins though out at the same time as the film come second. That this author fills in the holes of where Rey's piloting comes from is either specific instruction to do so or the author's own searching for ideas around his general instruction to "create some backstory for Rey."

Either way someone before the film came out knew there was a problem there.

It's also very clear that Ren isn't actually trying to kill her which can be a tougher method of fighting.

I don't disagree with the fact that there's something missing from Rey's piloting in the movie and it's unfortunate it only made more sense after reading tie-in books. I think that's fair to point to as poor writing in the movie, but that doesn't mean that Rey was poorly written (I won't rehash many of the valid arguments above where there were scenes that set up her skill/expertise/knowledge, even if some were subtle).

Uhhh....yes. Yes that does mean exactly that thing. If there is poor writing for a character in the movie, it means the character (by definition) is "poorly written".

It's not like it would be IMPOSSIBLE to explain how Rey got her abilities - certainly, there are better pilots/force users/mechanics/etc than her in the series, already. It's just that the movie makes no attempt to do so at all. It doesn't even hint that there IS an explanation, just...*pow*...she's immediately perfect at everything she tries.

At least little Annie in the prequels had an "unusually high midichlorian count", which everyone groaned at, and didn't really get elaborated on...but it meant there was a reason he was closest-character-to-Rey's-level-of-unnaturally-good-at-everything.

I mean that there are other aspects of her as a character and the lack of explanation about one thing does not mean she's poorly written overall. I disagree that the movie "makes no attempt" or even needs to make such an attempt in every situation. While I understand the question about her piloting based on what we see of her (as I pointed out), I'm not willing to concede that her fighting and mechanics need to be established in the same way at all because of what we do see.

Decipher card game was considered cannon source (so much that almost all the pilots in game (all the tie fighters for example) have their names extracted from that game) and it listed wedge with the same force sensitiveness as luke as of a new hope.

First off, the Decipher CCG (which I played and love) was never canon. Second, the ANH wedge was ability 2, the death star 2 wedge was ability 3. Neither of which is in any way force sensitive. You know who else was ability 3? General Solo (and a ton of other non-force-sensitive characters).

Luke from A New Hope was already ability 4. The only lower ability luke is the Luke premium card that they speciically made weaker than normal because it was free (and it was before he discovered he had any force powers)

In regards to Rey if you read before the awakening it explains that she has logged a ton of time in a flight simulator she salvaged from a y-wing and knows how to fly a lot of different ships due to it. That + force abilities I can see the ps8

As SithHappenz posted, you should read the book "Star Wars: Before the Awakening" - this book will tell you how Rey learned to fly.

Being stuck in Jakku with nothing much to do, allowed her to practice flying many types of ships. She even tried simulations with scenarios of breakdowns or damage to ships, so that she can simulate repairs - this is how she is able to quickly find ways to fix the Millennium Falcon (in addition to her scavenging skills for ship parts) - this allowed her to have great flying skills as well as mechanic skills.

Find out more here:http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Before_the_Awakening

Or buy the book http://www.amazon.com/Before-Awakening-Star-Wars-Rucka/dp/148472822X

No if it's not in the movie it's not relevant.

They added that after the negative reaction to make her less sue, but it's too little too late because you from your impressions watching the movie.

Not in the movie not relevant? errr.. that would make Soontir Fel, Outrider, Defenders, etc. all not relevant...

The book was offically published in Dec 18, the same day as the official movie release... i don't think, they can magically reprint the books to make her less sue in the same day.... "the force doesn't work like that"

Movie would of been finished long before that and shown to test audiences before post production was completed, writing her using a simulator takes minutes.

Also fel, defenders etc were not invented to fix anything so that's a false equivalency fallacy.

No if it's not in the movie it's not relevant.

That might be a true statement if the books weren't canon. Except they are...

I didn't read the book so if it isn't in the movie it didn't happen. That was the whole point in killing the EU I'd been following for twenty years -- it wasn't in a movie so for the majority of movie goers it didn't happen.

I've also been around this stuff long enough to know that if it isn't in the movie the creators will also be free to treat it as though it didn't happen. So put it on the screen or own how the film plays because it isn't on the screen. "Didn't you get the memo?" is what happens at work and is the sort of stress I go to movies to relieve not to get more of.

Luke. PS 8. ??? Coincidence hmmmm

As a Force user, Yes! He was even a pilot before the X-wing and Wedge could destroy him hands down without the force. The only reason Luke is an 8 is because of the force PERIOD.

To b fair on the novels later, Luke repeatedly stated that Wedge was very powerful in the force and could be trained into a Jedi but he refused to be.

No...? That never happened.

In fact, they confirm in one of the novels (Jedi Search, I think) that Wedge has no talent for the force.

Decipher card game was considered cannon source (so much that almost all the pilots in game (all the tie fighters for example) have their names extracted from that game) and it listed wedge with the same force sensitiveness as luke as of a new hope.

It says "Force-sensitive" on Luke's card.

Neither of these Wedge cards do.

Now, there IS a Wedge card that says "Force-attuned". However, "Force attuned" is clearly a game mechanic, meant to represent both minor characters with genuine but low-key Force sensitivity (e.g. the precognitive Qiraash Leesub Sirln and the time-shifting Lamproid Dice Ibegon) as well as "important" characters without any hint of Force ability other than a dash of luck now and then (e.g. Han Solo, Lando Calrissian, Grand Moff Tarkin)

So: The books explicitly say he's not force-sensitive. The cards do not say he's force-sensitive, and in fact leave that space blank, or, in one case, give him a lesser rank on one card for game balance issues.

Thus, the only reasonable conclusion? Wedge is a **** fine pilot on his own merits, not because of any connection with the Force.

It is no possibility at all that some things were left open intentionaly, nope, all bad writing!

Gosh this modern mindset of "I wan't everythng explained to me right now or it is stupid!" really gets to me. Reys abilities are a good setup for the following 2 movies. There is a whole lot that can be explored there. Woud have been entirely inapropriate in TFA, though, since her central struggle in that movie was accepting her past and opening herself to it.

It's also very clear that Ren isn't actually trying to kill her which can be a tougher method of fighting.

I don't disagree with the fact that there's something missing from Rey's piloting in the movie and it's unfortunate it only made more sense after reading tie-in books. I think that's fair to point to as poor writing in the movie, but that doesn't mean that Rey was poorly written (I won't rehash many of the valid arguments above where there were scenes that set up her skill/expertise/knowledge, even if some were subtle).

Uhhh....yes. Yes that does mean exactly that thing. If there is poor writing for a character in the movie, it means the character (by definition) is "poorly written".

It's not like it would be IMPOSSIBLE to explain how Rey got her abilities - certainly, there are better pilots/force users/mechanics/etc than her in the series, already. It's just that the movie makes no attempt to do so at all. It doesn't even hint that there IS an explanation, just...*pow*...she's immediately perfect at everything she tries.

At least little Annie in the prequels had an "unusually high midichlorian count", which everyone groaned at, and didn't really get elaborated on...but it meant there was a reason he was closest-character-to-Rey's-level-of-unnaturally-good-at-everything.

The most common anti-midichlorian complaint is "WE DON'T NEED AN ANSWER TO EVERYTHING"

It's a crazy day when people start citing "Midichlorians" as good writing.

I didn't say it was good writing - indeed, it was pretty hacky writing. But at least it indicated there was an explanation. We got more of them in the OT - Luke's father was the 'greatest star pilot in the galaxy'...and he was pretty good flying, himself. So it would follow he could probably handle an X-Wing with some training (even though he still almost got shot down twice and had to be saved by Wedge then Han).

I imagine stepping into an X-wing having only flown a T-16 previously is probably similar to jumping into an F22 from having flown a prop plane or something. They're built for vastly differnet purposes even if they were designed by the same company in universe. Luke destroyed a death star his first time flying an x-wing. Having to be saved by wedge, integrated astromech and Han say nothing about his piloting ability. He wasn't USING any piloting ability at the time. He was flying in a straight line down a trench to where he needed to make a shot and wasn't free to try to use any fancy flying to keep from getting shot.

I fail to see how Rey mentioning she was a pilot is worse than the set up Luke got for being a pilot. Because she was more humble about it?

It's not just Luke, but also an ace pilot Biggs vouching for him, and the greatest piloting achievement for Luke is going really fast and releasing pre-programed torpedoes in the exact moment thanks to the Force.

He also isn't good at anything else than piloting, maybe except being able to fire a blaster in the general direction of the enemy but if I remember correctly he still kills less people than Rey.

No if it's not in the movie it's not relevant.

That might be a true statement if the books weren't canon. Except they are...

I didn't read the book so if it isn't in the movie it didn't happen. That was the whole point in killing the EU I'd been following for twenty years -- it wasn't in a movie so for the majority of movie goers it didn't happen.

I've also been around this stuff long enough to know that if it isn't in the movie the creators will also be free to treat it as though it didn't happen. So put it on the screen or own how the film plays because it isn't on the screen. "Didn't you get the memo?" is what happens at work and is the sort of stress I go to movies to relieve not to get more of.

The whole point of killing of the EU was to ot restrict the design space for them to tell whatever stories they wanted to and give them freedom. It would ahve been way harder trying to fit everything into the existing 40 years of books. The fact that they've explicitly stated that all books/games/comics/etc going forward are canon means that "if it isn't in the movie it didn't happen" isn't true.

I fail to see how Rey mentioning she was a pilot is worse than the set up Luke got for being a pilot. Because she was more humble about it?

It's not just Luke, but also an ace pilot Biggs vouching for him, and the greatest piloting achievement for Luke is going really fast and releasing pre-programed torpedoes in the exact moment thanks to the Force.

He also isn't good at anything else than piloting, maybe except being able to fire a blaster in the general direction of the enemy but if I remember correctly he still kills less people than Rey.

well no

he also bullseyed womprats in his t-16 back home (they weren't much more than two meters)

All characters in the game of Ability 3 were "Force-attuned." Having enough ability meant "drawing destiny" in the game and was very important in battle. Characters like Han were powerful because they could draw destiny at times despite not having enough ability to do so innately like Vader at ability six since five ability was needed to get the draw.

I fail to see how Rey mentioning she was a pilot is worse than the set up Luke got for being a pilot. Because she was more humble about it?

It's not just Luke, but also an ace pilot Biggs vouching for him, and the greatest piloting achievement for Luke is going really fast and releasing pre-programed torpedoes in the exact moment thanks to the Force.

He also isn't good at anything else than piloting, maybe except being able to fire a blaster in the general direction of the enemy but if I remember correctly he still kills less people than Rey.

well no

he also bullseyed womprats in his t-16 back home (they weren't much more than two meters)

No doubt, but I was talking about what we actually see in the movie

Rey is a trained Jedi. How is PS8 unreasonable?

"Trained" is an interesting way to put "Learns how to Jedi via deus ex machina."

This is true, Rey is neither a Jedi, nor trained. She is just "strong in the force".

Speculation: her vision is more a revelation of a suppressed memory then anything else - it's the only place we see the Knights if Ren, and they are surrounded by dead bodies. In the vision, one of the Knights is about to kill Rey, and Kylo kills the knight instead.

Conclusion: Rey was one of the young Jedi trainees at Luke's school prior to Kylo's attack. He saved for (for reasons yet unclear) and she was left on Jaku with her memory wiped to protect her from Snoke. That's why Kylo freaks out when he hears that a girl helped Finn eacape - he has an inkling who it might be, but then it would contradict his statements to Snoke that indicate he doesn't know her.

The timeline doesn't really match up. It is looking like the massacre happened around 6 years before TFA. Rey would've been 13. She was much younger when she was abandoned.

I fail to see how Rey mentioning she was a pilot is worse than the set up Luke got for being a pilot. Because she was more humble about it?

It's not just Luke, but also an ace pilot Biggs vouching for him, and the greatest piloting achievement for Luke is going really fast and releasing pre-programed torpedoes in the exact moment thanks to the Force.

He also isn't good at anything else than piloting, maybe except being able to fire a blaster in the general direction of the enemy but if I remember correctly he still kills less people than Rey.

well no

he also bullseyed womprats in his t-16 back home (they weren't much more than two meters)

Not to mention the whole thing being "just like Beggar's Canyon, back home".

Which I'd have assumed at the time was half in jest, because like they'd actually be getting shot at while flying around a canyon...but then we saw the sand people shooting at podracers in Episode I, and hell, maybe he actually literally meant the amount of fire over the Death Star and flying down that trench really WAS just like Beggar's Canyon...

The timeline doesn't really match up. It is looking like the massacre happened around 6 years before TFA. Rey would've been 13. She was much younger when she was abandoned.

We don't know the timeline yet - like I said, it's speculation at this point, and it might be like the speed of ships in most Scifi (including Star Wars) - they all fly at the speed of "plot": the timing is what the story needs it to be. But again, all speculation.