it seems several people don't understand why a lot of us are unhappy, here I try to explain the economic reason:

lets say an x-wing, or a-wing, costs $3 to FFG, and the cards (between designing shared between all sales and manufacturing) another $3, and they sell it for $9 to the distributor. profit $3

lets say a falcon costs $6 and the cards $6, and they sell it for $18 to the distributor. profit $6

ok so, assuming most x-wing players will buy 1 Heroes of the Resistance expansion, FFG will make the following profit for each option:

A. 2 small ships (x-wing and a-wing): total profit $6

B. a falcon and an x-wing: total profit $9

Now look at it from the point of view of the players. a lot of new builds come up all the time fielding several small ships. Many people might try fielding that additional x-wing or a-wing they got, but how many players want a 2nd falcon? it's so expensive you can only field 1 properly upgraded, while you can field multiple small ships.

and cost to the player:

at retail, 2 small ships are $30, but now you're forced to buy that 2nd falcon, and so it's $40.

Okay, I can see where you are coming from, not wanting to buy a second Falcon, but you also have to consider other types of players. What about people who want to fly Resistance-only squads? This expansion is fantastic for them! What about people who just bought the new Core Set recently? This is just as good (if not better) for their game as buying the original Millennium Falcon expansion pack (since the new X-wings come with boost, the Engine Upgrade isn't necessary, but the two copies of Integrated Astromech cover the core T-70 and the one in this pack). I can understand now why some of you are upset, but I still see this expansion as a great product, and I don't begrudge FFG at all for their decision to produce this.

it seems several people don't understand why a lot of us are unhappy, here I try to explain the economic reason:

lets say an x-wing, or a-wing, costs $3 to FFG, and the cards (between designing shared between all sales and manufacturing) another $3, and they sell it for $9 to the distributor. profit $3

lets say a falcon costs $6 and the cards $6, and they sell it for $18 to the distributor. profit $6

ok so, assuming most x-wing players will buy 1 Heroes of the Resistance expansion, FFG will make the following profit for each option:

A. 2 small ships (x-wing and a-wing): total profit $6

B. a falcon and an x-wing: total profit $9

Now look at it from the point of view of the players. a lot of new builds come up all the time fielding several small ships. Many people might try fielding that additional x-wing or a-wing they got, but how many players want a 2nd falcon? it's so expensive you can only field 1 properly upgraded, while you can field multiple small ships.

and cost to the player:

at retail, 2 small ships are $30, but now you're forced to buy that 2nd falcon, and so it's $40.

You like to make assumptions about FFG's numbers, don't you.

Christian Peterson has confirmed that the Falcon has one of the slimmest margins for FFG. Why? Because it is the freakin Falcon, of course it will sell. Compare the Falcon model to all the other $30 ships, and I have no doubt, if it wasn't the Falcon or released later, that it would be a $40 ship.

And lets also add in the fact that the Falcon is STILL one of the best selling models for the game. It is a popular ship. So of course making a second one makes perfect sense. This is going to sell WELL. Despite what the naysayers are ranting about. The Falcon is the Falcon. People don't care about the freaking PWT or that is was already made. People want the Falcon. Just not necessarily those that play the game. But that's fine. collectors have a place too, since FFG makes kick ass models.

it seems several people don't understand why a lot of us are unhappy, here I try to explain the economic reason:

lets say an x-wing, or a-wing, costs $3 to FFG, and the cards (between designing shared between all sales and manufacturing) another $3, and they sell it for $9 to the distributor. profit $3

lets say a falcon costs $6 and the cards $6, and they sell it for $18 to the distributor. profit $6

ok so, assuming most x-wing players will buy 1 Heroes of the Resistance expansion, FFG will make the following profit for each option:

A. 2 small ships (x-wing and a-wing): total profit $6

B. a falcon and an x-wing: total profit $9

Now look at it from the point of view of the players. a lot of new builds come up all the time fielding several small ships. Many people might try fielding that additional x-wing or a-wing they got, but how many players want a 2nd falcon? it's so expensive you can only field 1 properly upgraded, while you can field multiple small ships.

and cost to the player:

at retail, 2 small ships are $30, but now you're forced to buy that 2nd falcon, and so it's $40.

Okay, I can see where you are coming from, not wanting to buy a second Falcon, but you also have to consider other types of players. What about people who want to fly Resistance-only squads? This expansion is fantastic for them! What about people who just bought the new Core Set recently? This is just as good (if not better) for their game as buying the original Millennium Falcon expansion pack (since the new X-wings come with boost, the Engine Upgrade isn't necessary, but the two copies of Integrated Astromech cover the core T-70 and the one in this pack). I can understand now why some of you are upset, but I still see this expansion as a great product, and I don't begrudge FFG at all for their decision to produce this.

Yeah, Core Set + this, you are ready to go for a $100 pt squad for $80. A great deal.

most of us really DO NOT WANT another Falcon/YT-1300 model.

I don't think you can really speak for what most of us want.

but how many players want a 2nd falcon? it's so expensive you can only field 1 properly upgraded

There was this thing called the summer of double falcons that proves you're wrong. Then there were all the double pancake lists of a YT 1300 and 2400.

So yes you can in fact field a second YT-1300, in fact if the new generic doesn't suffer from the same problem the ORS does, we may finally have a decent low price YT-1300.

You can all argue/make your points/perspectives until you are blue in the face.

But at the end of the day, EVERYONE is entitled to their own opinion (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/opinion). And no one opinion is any more or less correct than another.

If you feel that this is a great expansion... you are correct, if you think it is a money grab... you are correct, if your opinion is somewhere in the middle... you are correct

That being said, please resume arguing/making your points!

Opinions can be incorrect.

It's not a money grab, that's ridiculous. Who in their right mind would not buy this expansion once, and only once?

Whereas if they made a Starwing Assault gunboat, I would be on the line for about 8 of them.

TIE Avenger and Assault Gunboat. Good taste Veterans.

Opinions can be incorrect.

That's your opinion!

But at the end of the day, EVERYONE is entitled to their own opinion

Saying "most of us" is not an opinion, it's speaking for other people. While it may be true that he may not want a second falcon, that doesn't mean he gets to speak for anyone else.

The other post "it's so expensive you can only field 1 properly upgraded" is not really just an opinion. Because it has been demonstrated that two YT's in the same list can in fact be effective, even in a tournament.

Plus with a new generic which will hopefully have the same stats as the other YT pilots means a two YT list is even more viable.

Edit: Just because someone says 'in my opinion' white is black, or the sky is yellow... Doesn't mean that they're correct or that their opinion is valid.

But at the end of the day, EVERYONE is entitled to their own opinion

Saying "most of us" is not an opinion, it's speaking for other people. While it may be true that he may not want a second falcon, that doesn't mean he gets to speak for anyone else.

The other post "it's so expensive you can only field 1 properly upgraded" is not really just an opinion. Because it has been demonstrated that two YT's in the same list can in fact be effective, even in a tournament.

Plus with a new generic which will hopefully have the same stats as the other YT pilots means a two YT list is even more viable.

Edit: Just because someone says 'in my opinion' white is black, or the sky is yellow... Doesn't mean that they're correct or that their opinion is valid.

It seems to me that you are not going to be satisfied until everyone agrees with you, Which is fine.... never going to happen, but fine.

It also seems that you are taking these posts personally, and spending a lot of time trying to tear down/pick apart others perspectives/opinions.

As I said before we all have our own opinions, and are entitled to them.

And I have seen a yellow sky before

But at the end of the day, EVERYONE is entitled to their own opinion

Saying "most of us" is not an opinion, it's speaking for other people. While it may be true that he may not want a second falcon, that doesn't mean he gets to speak for anyone else.

The other post "it's so expensive you can only field 1 properly upgraded" is not really just an opinion. Because it has been demonstrated that two YT's in the same list can in fact be effective, even in a tournament.

Plus with a new generic which will hopefully have the same stats as the other YT pilots means a two YT list is even more viable.

Edit: Just because someone says 'in my opinion' white is black, or the sky is yellow... Doesn't mean that they're correct or that their opinion is valid.

and how many double falcon lists do you see around? I sometimes fly 2 VCXs but most people own 1. Would you be happy if the next expansion is a VCX and a T-65? the point of my post was not whether double falcons can be a niche viable tournament list or not, the point of my post was to explain some reasons why some of us are not entirely happy with this expansion pack, and one reason is we don't want to have to own 2 falcons just to get the latest upgrade cards.

From what I can tell, Imperial Veterans will be the third time they have released ships that have already been released, but with just a different paint scheme and new cards. If you want to be picky (and it seems like many seriously want to be), they have released X-wing and TIE expansions, which are the EXACT same model AND paint scheme as those already released in the core set but with new card. Both of these instances represent much more glaring examples of the thing that has some bent out of shape here.

I think the real issue is that people wanted (or expected) a different expansion than what was announced and this claim of "money grab" (which is ridiculous) is some sort of a message board tantrum.

Having this company occasionally release things that the majority of the fan base didn't expect isn't a bad thing.

Imperial Veterans will actually be the seventh time FFG has released repaints of existing ships. And Heroes of the Rebellion will be the eighth, although they're a little different, since they have some molding changes:

Imperial Aces

Rebel Transport (the included X-Wing is a repaint)

Rebel Aces

Most Wanted

Imperial Raider (the included TIE Advanced is a repaint)

Assault Carrier (the included TIE Fighters are repaints)

Imperial Veterans

Heroes of the Rebellion

Don't forget the gozanti

From what I can tell, Imperial Veterans will be the third time they have released ships that have already been released, but with just a different paint scheme and new cards. If you want to be picky (and it seems like many seriously want to be), they have released X-wing and TIE expansions, which are the EXACT same model AND paint scheme as those already released in the core set but with new card. Both of these instances represent much more glaring examples of the thing that has some bent out of shape here.

I think the real issue is that people wanted (or expected) a different expansion than what was announced and this claim of "money grab" (which is ridiculous) is some sort of a message board tantrum.

Having this company occasionally release things that the majority of the fan base didn't expect isn't a bad thing.

Imperial Veterans will actually be the sixth time FFG has released repaints of existing ships. And Heroes of the Rebellion will be the seventh, although they're a little different, since they have some molding changes:

Imperial Aces

Rebel Transport (the included X-Wing is a repaint)

Rebel Aces

Most Wanted (the included Y-Wing and Z-95 Headhunters are repaints)

Imperial Raider (the included TIE Advanced is a repaint)

Imperial Veterans

Heroes of the Rebellion

and they are all small ships which you can more easily fit as multiples (not counting the epic ships), while the latest is a repaint of a large point-expensive ship that several people don't want 2 of. we are not just complaining for this latest box, we are complaining for the principle.

people who complain about our complaining don't seem to understand that perhaps, since FFG is relatively a small company, they do listen to what people say in the forums (just look at the ID debacle). since I don't want our next expansions to all include repaints of VCX, decimators, yt-2400 and so on, I am objecting to this one also to try and prevent a new trend.

It seems to me that you are not going to be satisfied until everyone agrees with you

No one needs to agree with me. But the facts are the facts. No one has the ability to speak for most of the community. Also it's fact that two YT lists are and very well can be viable again.

So when someone says something that either factually wrong, or presumes to speak for me, I'll call them on it.

and how many double falcon lists do you see around?

I've seen a few, I've flown one myself. They've won tournaments. So your point is simply wrong.

The fact that you don't want a second Falcon is your issue not mine but the fact that you don't like it doesn't mean there's anything wrong with this expansion.

since I don't want our next expansions to all include repaints of VCX, decimators, yt-2400 and so on, I am objecting to this one also to try and prevent a new trend.

That is again nonsense. They didn't make a repainted version of the Firespray for S&V, yet that would've actually made some sense.

They wanted to or perhaps were told to make a two ship box set for the Resistance. That means they had two ships to chose from, the YT-1300 and the T-70. People have asked for a updated YT-1300 based on the movie.

So while you may not want it, lots of other people do.

and they are all small ships which you can more easily fit as multiples (not counting the epic ships), while the latest is a repaint of a large point-expensive ship that several people don't want 2 of. we are not just complaining for this latest box, we are complaining for the principle.

people who complain about our complaining don't seem to understand that perhaps, since FFG is relatively a small company, they do listen to what people say in the forums (just look at the ID debacle). since I don't want our next expansions to all include repaints of VCX, decimators, yt-2400 and so on, I am objecting to this one also to try and prevent a new trend.

And the Falcon continues to be their best selling model. So, in this specific case, your complaints would fall on deaf ears, because your opinion does not outweigh the business reality that a new Falcon model will sell. And sell WELL.

I will gladly fly double pancakes if I can make it work. Might even fly New Old Han on the round dish falcon and ORS on the new rectangle rectanna falcon. Silly!

Double Falcons don't have much appeal to me, due to only one being able to take the new title.

It seems to me that you are not going to be satisfied until everyone agrees with you

No one needs to agree with me. But the facts are the facts. No one has the ability to speak for most of the community. Also it's fact that two YT lists are and very well can be viable again.

So when someone says something that either factually wrong, or presumes to speak for me, I'll call them on it.

and how many double falcon lists do you see around?

I've seen a few, I've flown one myself. They've won tournaments. So your point is simply wrong.

The fact that you don't want a second Falcon is your issue not mine but the fact that you don't like it doesn't mean there's anything wrong with this expansion.

I don't remember reading a post saying: "VandorDM said..." but anyway...

"The fact that you don't want a second Falcon is your issue not mine but the fact that you don't like it doesn't mean there's anything wrong with this expansion."

But surely if you do not want a second Falcon then there IS something with it... for you, right?

Just for the record, I actually like the expansion

It looks less like a piece of junk and more like garbage.

But surely if you do not want a second Falcon then there IS something with it... for you, right?

Yes and no. That may mean you don't want the expansion, but that doesn't mean it was a mistake for FFG to create it. I mean should I get upset and complain about expansion packs I don't personally want or should I be happy that those who do are getting something they want?

That is really my issue, this attitude of "Since I don't want it, no one else should get it either."

Don't forget the gozanti

thank youuuuu

But surely if you do not want a second Falcon then there IS something with it... for you, right?

Yes and no. That may mean you don't want the expansion, but that doesn't mean it was a mistake for FFG to create it. I mean should I get upset and complain about expansion packs I don't personally want or should I be happy that those who do are getting something they want?

That is really my issue, this attitude of "Since I don't want it, no one else should get it either."

I 100% agree with this post.

You are entitled to like or dislike expansions, but it does not mean that others will agree with you.

Like what you like, and allow others to do the same.

Double Falcons don't have much appeal to me, due to only one being able to take the new title.

Might have been nice if they had included several new Titles, as in the Epic ships...

I too am disappointed about the Royal Guard TIE Interceptors. I thought that should have at least added the wing-lets.