new Poe with one more PS for two more points (which is kinda meh because he is not a super arc dodger like the imps for whom it's a huge deal having more PS)

Poe could never be a super arc-dodger because he was at PS8, so he couldn't arcdodge PS9 pilots. He was married to VI to bump up his PS. At PS9, you can give him bb8 and PTL and absolutely be an arcdodger.

Ant then we realize that he does not have shield regen anymore and only 2 green dice, as opposed to imperial arc-dodgers that are nigh impossible to hit even if you get them in arc or have powerful turrets.

The reason why PS9 Poe with BB8 is not as good as with shield regen is exactlybthe same as for his PS8 version. This has been tested and it's good. But not as good as with R2-D2 or P9.

Agility 3 or 4 with Stealth and Palpy in Fel's case is just able to mitigate damage or avoid it while Rebels except for A-Wings and E-Wings just don't have this option!

Arc-dodging is not only about actually dodging some arcs but more about not taking damage.

new Poe with one more PS for two more points (which is kinda meh because he is not a super arc dodger like the imps for whom it's a huge deal having more PS)

Poe could never be a super arc-dodger because he was at PS8, so he couldn't arcdodge PS9 pilots. He was married to VI to bump up his PS. At PS9, you can give him bb8 and PTL and absolutely be an arcdodger.

Ant then we realize that he does not have shield regen anymore and only 2 green dice, as opposed to imperial arc-dodgers that are nigh impossible to hit even if you get them in arc or have powerful turrets.

The reason why PS9 Poe with BB8 is not as good as with shield regen is exactlybthe same as for his PS8 version. This has been tested and it's good. But not as good as with R2-D2 or P9.

Agility 3 or 4 with Stealth and Palpy in Fel's case is just able to mitigate damage or avoid it while Rebels except for A-Wings and E-Wings just don't have this option!

Arc-dodging is not only about actually dodging some arcs but more about not taking damage.

Some people actually played PS8 poe with bb8 and ptl even without being able to arc-dodge the PS9s or regen shields. And while Poe may be lower agility than the imp aces, he's got 3 shields to help mitigate extra damage he might take.

I too played bb-8 ptl poe

bb-8 ptl t-70s are some of the most fun you'll ever have in the game

sadly, it's just not terribly competitive. The damage mitigation simply isn't there.

besides, Asty is the far superior platform due to white t-rolls. The fact that they leave you unstressed to bb-8 immediately the round after, and the fact that your opponent has to guess between them AND bb-8 just makes him an absolute blast to fly

PS 7 is weak, though

I can finally run triple falcons

The reason you run PtL BB-8 Poe is for the Black One title, which is absolute bonkers. That thing is going to make the Inquisitor, OL, and Vessery all cry, and will knock them down a peg or two.

You'll take your regen on something else in your list, like R2D2 on an ARC.

Black one's existence in the meta will be tied directly to the existence of scouts, who don't give a **** about it

Black one's existence in the meta will be tied directly to the existence of scouts, who don't give a **** about it

There may be a card we haven't seen yet that will bring cheap ordnance carriers back like TIE Bombers or Z-95s. I mean, I don't find it terribly likely... but its certainly possible.

Black one's existence in the meta will be tied directly to the existence of scouts, who don't give a **** about it

There may be a card we haven't seen yet that will bring cheap ordnance carriers back like TIE Bombers or Z-95s. I mean, I don't find it terribly likely... but its certainly possible.

there isn't

we got chips and salsa (scanners)

everything else thus far unspoiled doesn't take up ordnance slots, apart from the ARC-170's torpedoes which are fired on action and therefore might not work like ordnance at all.

If the epts from heroes work with ordnance, then we're not getting cheap carriers due to needing epts

Black one's existence in the meta will be tied directly to the existence of scouts, who don't give a **** about it

All of the new Imperial aces which work with TLs are going to get completely shut down by Black One, and more than scouts they're the list to beat right now. Black One's existence is going to be tied directly into how much Imperial TL lists still dominate, especially once Vessery is good. Also note, none of those ships are going to PS9.

Also I'm going to guess scouts are going to be less of a thing in Wave 9 given they have a direct hard counter coming.

I believe the "Direct scout hard counter" when I see it

I still remember munitions failsafe being heralded as the definitive munitions fix

Black one's existence in the meta will be tied directly to the existence of scouts, who don't give a **** about it

All of the new Imperial aces which work with TLs are going to get completely shut down by Black One, and more than scouts they're the list to beat right now. Black One's existence is going to be tied directly into how much Imperial TL lists still dominate, especially once Vessery is good. Also note, none of those ships are going to PS9.

Also I'm going to guess scouts are going to be less of a thing in Wave 9 given they have a direct hard counter coming.

I think Fickle has it absolutely right here.

Black one Title and a PS9 Poe are a soft counter to Omega and Inquisitor, but Empire can just switch back towards Soontir, Whisper, Carnor, or even a Defender ace once they finally arrive... These mostly give a **** about not having a TL.

Then the question still is if you want BB-8 over Shield regen, since you can plain and simple boost to trigger your title.

There are also still turret lists flying around and these will just murder you even with AT, which they could not do if you had shield regen.

Where is the Scout hard counter btw? I know Alex announced something like that in an interview, but it's nowhere to be found in the current spoilers at least. Also i wonder if it will be accessible to all factions... Rebels need it most atm, but i would prefer something like crew or a widely accessible modification.

Except that it's NOT for free and that it means that another a lot more important rebel expansion is pushed further back for this fluffy but probably useless one!

What criteria are you using to determine that this expansion is less important than another hypothetical one? It seems like that's an opinion, but maybe you have some objective reasons buried somewhere.

There's no way they're going to please everybody.

Nope. As my dad says, some people would complain if they were hanged with a new rope.

Excuse me for thread necroing, but what objective reasons do i need to say that this expansion delays another Rebel one. It is equally very obvious that this expansion does next to nothing for the Rebel faction. New falcon with weaker title, new Poe with one more PS for two more points (which is kinda meh because he is not a super arc dodger like the imps for whom it's a huge deal having more PS)

Rebels are at the moment the weakest faction and win the least big tournaments. This has never been the case until now, but giving them a new expansion like this should have pushed their power level for a tiny little bit to be on par with the rest. Instead it is two ships that stand no chance in the current meta. Fluff, yes, but competitive? No! Not from ehat we know at least. Maybe there are some unknown treasures hidden in the cards but from what we know now, nothing substantial.

The most subjective part is that i would indeed have much preferred an E-Wing or X-Wing expansion that would have boosted these ships to competitive level.

But accusing someone of being subjective is not very smart anyway. EVERYONE writes subjective stuff on this forum, except maybe some of the mathwing threads that form an exception.

You said Heroes of the Resistance was not just pushing back/pushing out some other expansion, but that expansion was "a lot more important." Very little from the pack has been spoiled, so it seems like what you actually mean is "I wanted an expansion featuring other ships."

And that's totally fine; just don't pretend it's anything other than frustration that you're not getting what you wanted.

Black one's existence in the meta will be tied directly to the existence of scouts, who don't give a **** about it

All of the new Imperial aces which work with TLs are going to get completely shut down by Black One, and more than scouts they're the list to beat right now. Black One's existence is going to be tied directly into how much Imperial TL lists still dominate, especially once Vessery is good. Also note, none of those ships are going to PS9.

Also I'm going to guess scouts are going to be less of a thing in Wave 9 given they have a direct hard counter coming.

I think Fickle has it absolutely right here.

Black one Title and a PS9 Poe are a soft counter to Omega and Inquisitor, but Empire can just switch back towards Soontir, Whisper, Carnor, or even a Defender ace once they finally arrive... These mostly give a **** about not having a TL.

Then the question still is if you want BB-8 over Shield regen, since you can plain and simple boost to trigger your title.

There are also still turret lists flying around and these will just murder you even with AT, which they could not do if you had shield regen.

Where is the Scout hard counter btw? I know Alex announced something like that in an interview, but it's nowhere to be found in the current spoilers at least. Also i wonder if it will be accessible to all factions... Rebels need it most atm, but i would prefer something like crew or a widely accessible modification.

Black One title is rather good against Vessery as well (as the most commonly talked about defender). As long as you take an initiative bid to move last, you completely negate Vessery's ability if you cna clear any target locks before he gets to shoot. And you'll probably do well against soontir as well if you're moving last. Carnor's not that scary as long as you can get your focus token (either BB8 PTL focus before you get into range 1 of him or focus after moving if he starts at range 1) since Poe's ability isn't affected by carnor. Whisper also tends to like her TL (since she runs FCS 99% of the time). It won't completely shut her down, but hurts her offense.

As for a hard counter to uboats, there's a ton of unspoiled cards yet, no point in speculating or worry about it until we see more cards.

Black one Title and a PS9 Poe are a soft counter to Omega and Inquisitor

Soft counter? No, hard counter. OL without his target lock is almost useless. Forcing the Inquisitor to spend focus on offense is great. It shuts down the most popular Imperial Aces build right now.

Empire can just switch back towards Soontir, Whisper, Carnor, or even a Defender ace once they finally arrive

Which are almost always three ship builds, not four ship. They're also frankly not as good as the Inquisitor or OL. Also Whisper is most popular with OL.

Then the question still is if you want BB-8 over Shield regen, since you can plain and simple boost to trigger your title.

It's almost like you have another 60 points to spend. You obviously put R2D2 on another ship in your list. Black One Poe isn't your centerpiece, he's an expensive and awesome support ship. He's like a Carnor Jax for TLs.

There are also still turret lists flying around and these will just murder you even with AT, which they could not do if you had shield regen.

In this meta there's no such thing as a perfect list. Everything has a hard counter of some sort or another.

My point in all this is that after Vessery, OL, and Inquisitor builds start murdering everyone under the sun, FFG has put in some counters to it.

Vessery OL and Inq builds are already hard countered by conner nets and the lovely sabine (also r3-a2 ys but who's keeping score, eh?)

problem then is scouts, not to mention the interesting t-beam tech coming out. That just murders Poe rather fiercely, esp without regen

PS 9 poe is still largely a superfluous addition to the game, unlike the sexy black one paint scheme on the t-70

pretty much the only "hard count to uboats" that isnt a straight up "bring this card: uboats are now 100% useless!" that could be is something involving focus tokens. Uboats can still fall back on targetlocks, but if they action for targetlock they have to be in range before YOU move (usually they arent) and they cant use it defensively/take stress to fire anyway. That dramatically reduces their potency.

If they release something that middle-fingers ordnance in general, then the nonuboats with ordnance become utterly laughable.

might've brought it up before (even in this very thread) but someone suggested an interesting mechanic involving an astromech that allowed you to spend your focus defensively in order to remove a focus token from the enemy

so first you have to declare a target, then choose which weapon to fire (torpedo ala deadeye)

meaning a card that allowed you to:

once per round, when declared the target of an attack, you may spend on of your focus tokens to choose 1 of the attacker's focus or evade tokens. Discard that token

would screw it over right quick, but also force some tough decisions on aces and the like. Lastly, it's far superior on low agility ships that don't really benefit much from defensive focus, which does sadly include the falcon but, more importantly, includes the ARC-170 and the B-wing and the Y

would be nice on an astromech, and it's also a shoe-in for the "trick..." ept if said ept ends up being "trickster"

more likely, it'd have to trigger when an enemy at range X were attacking, and that's just hell with Biggs

Could also be

Trickster - 1/2 points

"At the start of the combat phase, you can spend one of your focus tokens to target an enemy ship at range 1-3 and inside your firing arc. Remove a focus or evade token from that ship."

Wasted expansion? T-70-expansion is a wasted expansion. Cool hand is so so - shouldn't be a discardcard. My opinion. Target Astromech is quite cool. Ello Astray os cool but should cost less - feels like a Poe with lower Pilotlevel. Anything else is waste - even Red Ace.

In this expansion you get 2 Intergrated Astromech. 2 IA is awesome (if you played a lot T-70 and T-65.) Segnor's loop for Falcon. I repeat Segnor's loop. Now the falc can act as a Jumpmaster... Also take Rey in Falcon. Segnor's loop, range 1, roll 1 hit and 2 blank. Reroll without target lock! Add Predator 3 rerolls!!!

Black One is great against a lot of things. I particularly like using it to get rid of Whisper's TL.

Wasted expansion? T-70-expansion is a wasted expansion. Cool hand is so so - shouldn't be a discardcard. My opinion. Target Astromech is quite cool. Ello Astray os cool but should cost less - feels like a Poe with lower Pilotlevel. Anything else is waste - even Red Ace.

In this expansion you get 2 Intergrated Astromech. 2 IA is awesome (if you played a lot T-70 and T-65.) Segnor's loop for Falcon. I repeat Segnor's loop. Now the falc can act as a Jumpmaster... Also take Rey in Falcon. Segnor's loop, range 1, roll 1 hit and 2 blank. Reroll without target lock! Add Predator 3 rerolls!!!

Have you played against Red Ace? With Comm Relay and R2-D2, he can be a pain in the butt to get rid of. If anything, he's he main reason to get the pack. (And well, IA is good too.)

Wasted expansion? T-70-expansion is a wasted expansion. Cool hand is so so - shouldn't be a discardcard. My opinion. Target Astromech is quite cool. Ello Astray os cool but should cost less - feels like a Poe with lower Pilotlevel. Anything else is waste - even Red Ace.

In this expansion you get 2 Intergrated Astromech. 2 IA is awesome (if you played a lot T-70 and T-65.) Segnor's loop for Falcon. I repeat Segnor's loop. Now the falc can act as a Jumpmaster... Also take Rey in Falcon. Segnor's loop, range 1, roll 1 hit and 2 blank. Reroll without target lock! Add Predator 3 rerolls!!!

Have you played against Red Ace? With Comm Relay and R2-D2, he can be a pain in the butt to get rid of. If anything, he's he main reason to get the pack. (And well, IA is good too.)

R5-P9 also works okay on Red ace as well, but that's better suited to defense Poe. I know handshakes are a thing to try and avoid, But Jan and Red ace can have some really neat Handshakes and trades with the Hwk.

Red Ace works well for a epic match. 100p no. No one uses a T-70, unless it's Poe.

Wasted expansion? T-70-expansion is a wasted expansion. Cool hand is so so - shouldn't be a discardcard. My opinion. Target Astromech is quite cool. Ello Astray os cool but should cost less - feels like a Poe with lower Pilotlevel. Anything else is waste - even Red Ace.

In this expansion you get 2 Intergrated Astromech. 2 IA is awesome (if you played a lot T-70 and T-65.) Segnor's loop for Falcon. I repeat Segnor's loop. Now the falc can act as a Jumpmaster... Also take Rey in Falcon. Segnor's loop, range 1, roll 1 hit and 2 blank. Reroll without target lock! Add Predator 3 rerolls!!!

Have you played against Red Ace? With Comm Relay and R2-D2, he can be a pain in the butt to get rid of. If anything, he's he main reason to get the pack. (And well, IA is good too.)

Red Ace works well for a epic match. 100p no. No one uses a T-70, unless it's Poe.

So, what I am seeing is, if Black One becomes prevalent, we will see Rexlar and the Countess more than Vessery, Darth Vader fades back further into obscurity, and Omega Leader gets dropped in a shallow grave?

Well, seeing as the current meta revolves around focus tokens launching torpedoes, how prevalent is B1 really going to be?

Red Ace works well for a epic match. 100p no. No one uses a T-70, unless it's Poe.

Wasted expansion? T-70-expansion is a wasted expansion. Cool hand is so so - shouldn't be a discardcard. My opinion. Target Astromech is quite cool. Ello Astray os cool but should cost less - feels like a Poe with lower Pilotlevel. Anything else is waste - even Red Ace.

In this expansion you get 2 Intergrated Astromech. 2 IA is awesome (if you played a lot T-70 and T-65.) Segnor's loop for Falcon. I repeat Segnor's loop. Now the falc can act as a Jumpmaster... Also take Rey in Falcon. Segnor's loop, range 1, roll 1 hit and 2 blank. Reroll without target lock! Add Predator 3 rerolls!!!

Have you played against Red Ace? With Comm Relay and R2-D2, he can be a pain in the butt to get rid of. If anything, he's he main reason to get the pack. (And well, IA is good too.)

Red Ace works well for a epic match. 100p no. No one uses a T-70, unless it's Poe.

You are so wrong it hurts. It's not like we have a repository of all played pilots, he didn't see prominent use at all during store championships. Not in the slightest... wait what's that? People did? Well I'll be, it's almost like him with R2D2 and comms is a stupid tanky ship. Like others have said, the only reason you don't see him as much now, is burst damage is king, but much like every meta, that won't last.

So, what I am seeing is, if Black One becomes prevalent, we will see Rexlar and the Countess more than Vessery, Darth Vader fades back further into obscurity, and Omega Leader gets dropped in a shallow grave?

Well, seeing as the current meta revolves around focus tokens launching torpedoes, how prevalent is B1 really going to be?

I look at the results, and I really don't think you should say that the meta revolves around the Jumpmasters. Imperial Aces is the top dog at the moment. And let's look at the impact on the top Aces. Vader is forced to constantly re-acquire hit TL, meaning one less action for re-positioning or tokens. Omega Leader loses his ability. Inquisitor's TL essentially becomes an Evade action. Whisper just plain loses her TL.

Black One can cause enough annoyance to Imperial Aces that I really enjoy it. I doubt that you will set it up to remove more than one TL, but it will be interesting to see how it plays out. And on who it goes on.