I am sure this has been talked about at length.... but I am new to the game and the forum so I am going to go into again.

As the IA player why take anything but the Subversive Tactics? Being the Rebel player in the games I have played I can tell you it is horrible. As the Rebel player most of the games are timed which means you have to move fast. So things that slow you down hurt, and with Tactics you have a card that gives bleed for 1 XP at the start is brutal because you are either taking strain all the time or damage, unless you waste a turn to remove it. Also as a Rebel player to do your cool stuff you need Strain, and the Subversive Tactics gives out tones of stain out which means you have to rest all the time, or not use your abilities. And then if you become full of strain and not remove it then the strain just turns into damage. So then it becomes 3 fold it slows the player down, it limits the use of their abilities, and it can cause damage.

combine this with some key figures like Heavy Troopers and Trandoshan's and the Rebels do not stand a chance... It has been by pure Luck that we have been able to win a game with the IA player is using Subversive Tactics. Where when we have played against a different IA type it has been more even.

1) Because you want to play a second campaign with the same players?

2) Because you want to show you are an inventive and superior strategist and can win a campaign with a different deck.

3) Because you already played with it or against it.

Because winning isnt everything.

Subversive Tactics can be tricky, and its particularly terrible against new players who don't understand all the mechanics of the game. However, ST is also the deck that is easiest to counter as Rebel players. When playing against it, you build your character around passive skills, ones that don't cost strain. Many characters have abilities to recover strain (Fenn, Mak, Gideon, Jyn, Saska, Biv). Saska is incredible at countering ST deck. Every device token is a surge during your attack, surges translate into recovery of strain. Focusing on weapons that use yellow dice in this campaign also helps.

Additionally, ST's is the worst for Imperial figure survivability and late in the campaign when the Rebels are much more powerful, Imperial figures die very quickly. This game is mostly about action economy, order of events, and because of that the best "Defense" is having a better offense. Removing deployment groups before they can kill you. ST also lacks in bringing firepower to wound the Rebels. So you have to play differently because yes, you are going to move slower, but the threat of being wounded compared to say MM or AO is much less.

So overall, I agree ST is definitely the trickiest of decks to play against, but I wouldn't say the most powerful. But once you realize how all the game mechanics work together, it can be countered and isn't as much of a struggle as people originally thought. Been through 6 full campaigns so far, played against every Imperial class deck and ST was not our most difficult campaign. Inspiring Leadership was. IL starts off very slow, but late campaign, holy hell all the extra actions, that deck seriously sucks!

You have to build your heroes differently to counter ST. Every ability that reduces strain becomes much more valuable.

Supply Network might be a better choice than Disengage against this deck.

Diala almost has to take Battle Meditation to gain something back from all the resting. The Focus die she hands out then can be used to recover strain.

Fenn is still a beast against ST. He can shrug the extra strain and the IP's figures are softer targets for his Havoc Shot.

You get the idea.

ST is very difficult early in the campaign, especially against new players. I would much rather face it than a loaded MM deck late in the game though. I once had Assault Armor, Combat Veterans and Imperial Industry (via Agenda cards) on elite ST's... They are not fun with the extra block, extra HP's and that many surges.

MHD-19, Gaarkahn and Gideon to an extent have builds that can counter subversive tactics very well. Its still tough to play against, but not as difficult as with just the core box heroes.

Outside of that, why play the same deck all the time? Just seems boring.

I've played pretty much all the decks now, anyone saying Subversive is the "best" probably hasn't played any of the other decks. It's nothing special.

You think losing a few strain slows you down? Try having most of your characters stunned every round by arc blasters on troops that are rolling black + white so are sucking out your surges and blocking your wounds assuming they don't just outright dodge. Or try 5 wound +1 block, armor reroll, +1 wound stormtroopers for 2 threat.

Because it's not fun and gaming is supposed to be fun, especially this type.

I've played pretty much all the decks now, anyone saying Subversive is the "best" probably hasn't played any of the other decks. It's nothing special.

You think losing a few strain slows you down? Try having most of your characters stunned every round by arc blasters on troops that are rolling black + white so are sucking out your surges and blocking your wounds assuming they don't just outright dodge. Or try 5 wound +1 block, armor reroll, +1 wound stormtroopers for 2 threat.

You know Arc Blasters only stuns if they fail a strength check right?

Though I definitely agree that subversive isn't necessarily the best class in the way the OP implies.

To clarify that's:

not 'necessarily the best class' in the way the OP implies

rather than:

not necessarily 'the best class in the way the OP implies'.

It's nothing special.

I certainly disagree. Most other decks do not synergize nearly as well. Tech.Superiority can be a beast if you get Imperial Industry. Military Might is very nice in Twin Shadows. And Armored Onslaught performs well with the story spawned mechanized help you get on Hoth.

But Sub.Tactics is just good all around. If the players do no hard counter it (which makes it a pretty weak deck IMHO), it synergizes very well with itself. That is something the other decks don't do. They all need some other pieces to be truly intimidating.

Because the imperial player is the DM, and the DM's job is to create an engaging and fun scenario for the other players, because you are playing a game , and it should be fun .

A few D+D campaigns should really be pre-requisite for playing IA.

That being said, I will use Subversive Tactics the first time I play the Bespin campaign with my group. I think it will fit well with the theme.

That being said, I will use Subversive Tactics the first time I play the Bespin campaign with my group. I think it will fit well with the theme.

~D

Personal challenge. Yes, you could probably rack up an awesome win/loss ratio with ST, but wins without challenges are pretty meaningless.

I'm currently playing with Technological Superiority and I must say that It is much better than I thought at first. With 'Technical Support' and 'Adaptative Weapons', my Probe droids are a real threat, being faster, able to cure others and now rolling 1 blue, 1 red and 1 yellow in attack... Add the reroll if it's the elite version They hit hard!

'Adaptative weapon' is so good! Every unit is an offensive threat, even the officer, especially if I was able to take a focus the turn before. Every Storm being able to attack with 1 red, 1 green. For 6 points, I can make 3 attacks that hit hard in close combat.

Now working my way to buy some cloaking device, they'll fit nicely on my elite Stormtrooper.

Subversive Tactics is nice, but the other decks are valid options too. And what's the fun in always playing the same thing?

ST is beastly to players that aren't accounting for it in their character builds. It sucks to play against it without Fenn too.

That said... Take the abilities that allow you to reduce strain. Take abilities that don't cost strain. Take abilities that make it less necessary to strain for move. Buy weapons that use yellow dice. Make sure you buy balanced hilt and tactical display (you should anyway).

Here's the problem with ST... It does not buff your figures. MM has Assault Armor and Combat Veterans. Tech Superiority has Cloaking and lets droids heal figures. It is hard to kill figures with extra defense and health. It requires the big weapons with red dice to get it done. Red dice don't give surges. Red dice don't reduce strain often. You don't need red dice to beat ST though. The IP's figures fall easily so long as you have access to your abilities.

Using Technological Superiority in my Hoth campaign and it rocks.

HK droids are insane with Tech Support

It's nothing special.

I certainly disagree. Most other decks do not synergize nearly as well. Tech.Superiority can be a beast if you get Imperial Industry. Military Might is very nice in Twin Shadows. And Armored Onslaught performs well with the story spawned mechanized help you get on Hoth.

But Sub.Tactics is just good all around. If the players do no hard counter it (which makes it a pretty weak deck IMHO), it synergizes very well with itself. That is something the other decks don't do. They all need some other pieces to be truly intimidating.

Imperial Industry is broken by itself, it doesn't have anything to do with Tech Superiority.

All the decks are good all around, that is not unique to Subversive Tactics. Subversive Tactics however is the most easily countered deck. In fact most decks can't be countered, they just plow so many wounds into the Rebels they lose.

Because the imperial player is the DM, and the DM's job is to create an engaging and fun scenario for the other players, because you are playing a game , and it should be fun .

A few D+D campaigns should really be pre-requisite for playing IA.

That being said, I will use Subversive Tactics the first time I play the Bespin campaign with my group. I think it will fit well with the theme.

This is an interesting way to look at Imperial Assault. I know of no one else who plays this game anything like Dungeons and Dragons with the Imperial Player out to be the Dungeon Master and make sure everyone has fun. In fact, every IA campaign I've ever seen has been very much the Imperial Player is trying to win every scenario and takes the most effective moves available to make that possible. Where in the rule books do you find anything to make it seem like this should be played in the same way as D&D with a Dungeon Master? I'd love to have that to show people if it is there somewhere.

As to the original question, I suppose I count as a "new player" because I agree that Subversive Tactics (and the piling on of strain and extra evades) makes for a rough go of it. In fact, our Imperial Player has pretty much made his Nexu invincible by combining it with Oppression. Seriously, how is that not eratta'd somehow? The number of damage we roll on our attack dice seems to matter not at all when attacking the Nexus now. They get about 3 armor and 1 evade before they even roll their defense dice.

We have banned subversive tactics here as it's borderline broken and a NPE.