So my friend has been running Edge of the Empire for awhile now and is annoyed with the fact that someone cant just shoot some one who moves up and attacks with a melee weapon, and is tempted to make a house rule to do so... so basically i am curious on everyone's thoughts and opinions on this.

As far as "reactions" and "attacks of opportunity" the melee guy also doesn't get to attack you when you run by him or when you step back out of engaged range. Melee guys (without lightsabers or the pressure point talent) actually get the shaft in this game

I'd probably be fine with a player spending their turn to allow a reaction to the first enemy that comes at them before their next turn, but it would be more of a "waiting for the person to round the corner" thing

This is what initiative is all about. Did the player already use their maneuvers and action that turn? Or did the enemy get the jump on them and act before the PC could?

There's no extra special action everyone gets if someone moves in to stab them. If a Player is concerned about someone coming in to stab them, wouldn't they be doing something about it on their turn?

This is what initiative is all about. Did the player already use their maneuvers and action that turn? Or did the enemy get the jump on them and act before the PC could?

There's no extra special action everyone gets if someone moves in to stab them. If a Player is concerned about someone coming in to stab them, wouldn't they be doing something about it on their turn?

This. Unlike many other games, players can freely shuffle their order in the initiative. If you're worried about that guy with the vibroaxe, than go before him and do something about it.

This is what initiative is all about. Did the player already use their maneuvers and action that turn? Or did the enemy get the jump on them and act before the PC could?

There's no extra special action everyone gets if someone moves in to stab them. If a Player is concerned about someone coming in to stab them, wouldn't they be doing something about it on their turn?

This. Unlike many other games, players can freely shuffle their order in the initiative. If you're worried about that guy with the vibroaxe, than go before him and do something about it.

Or, at the very least, opt for a Guarded Stance as one of your maneuvers. Now, it would be cool if one could split the use of maneuvers and actions across multiple initiative slots, and I might allow it if it's narrated in a way that makes it plausible. Rules are no substitute for good storycrafting and fun.

Additionally, page 200 of the Edge of the Empire core rulebook has a section about Maneuvers outside a character's turn.

This is what initiative is all about. Did the player already use their maneuvers and action that turn? Or did the enemy get the jump on them and act before the PC could?

There's no extra special action everyone gets if someone moves in to stab them. If a Player is concerned about someone coming in to stab them, wouldn't they be doing something about it on their turn?

This. Unlike many other games, players can freely shuffle their order in the initiative. If you're worried about that guy with the vibroaxe, than go before him and do something about it.

Or, at the very least, opt for a Guarded Stance as one of your maneuvers. Now, it would be cool if one could split the use of maneuvers and actions across multiple initiative slots, and I might allow it if it's narrated in a way that makes it plausible. Rules are no substitute for good storycrafting and fun.

Field Commander can give everyone a free maneuver or even an action instead. And field commander seems to be a super common talent. If you need to reposition mid-turn than just let your commander a round slot and hand out those free maneuvers. Even more hilarious it gets if that is enough to either bring your own melee guy into position or just downright use the extra action to shoot problem in the face.

I think the issue here has more to do with lack of understanding how structured time works. You say your friend has been running Edge "for a while", but I'm getting the impression he doesn't understand basic PNP RPG concepts.

It's called going first. If the PC is the person with the high Vigilance and the high Cool, they aren't going to have anyone run up on them they didn't get an opportunity to stop first. Lots of people ignore imitative in this game and forget it's a skill like any other and you can rule at it and likely always go first if you put the xp/effort into it.

Field Commander can give everyone a free maneuver or even an action instead. And field commander seems to be a super common talent. If you need to reposition mid-turn than just let your commander a round slot and hand out those free maneuvers. Even more hilarious it gets if that is enough to either bring your own melee guy into position or just downright use the extra action to shoot problem in the face.

That is an excellent point! It would be a shame to house rule something that makes a Talent less useful. Granting an extra Maneuver or even an Action is a powerful ability to bring to a fight.

As far as "reactions" and "attacks of opportunity" the melee guy also doesn't get to attack you when you run by him or when you step back out of engaged range. Melee guys (without lightsabers or the pressure point talent) actually get the shaft in this game

This is funny because things like "attacks of opportunity" were introduced pretty late into a single RPG to start, namely D&D 3 (ca. 2000). In prior editions and in most other RPGs I played before it there was no such thing, heheh.

Savage Worlds (SW) has one freebie should someone leave base to base contact and not perform a withdrawal action (don't recall this existing in the original Deadlands that SW is based on). Else it takes the character spending XP to hit someone coming in to melee combat (namely the Edges "First Strike" and "Improved First Strike").

Extremely so, in structured time , the rules specify all everyones actions and maneuvers all happen at the same time, however it would be onerous to wait until the end and narrate it that way, meaning the person who did his slot first may well have shot the melee combatant as he was running in, however if you want to go with real life its sommon knowledge among police etc that you need a certain amount of distance to be sure of getting a shotbefore a knifeman can stab you first. Getting away from an opponent is also harder as you either have to run through them, back off or turn your back on them.

I think they dont understand the narrative aspect of the game, and also have a holdover regarding attacks of opportunity from other games

Extremely so, in structured time , the rules specify all everyones actions and maneuvers all happen at the same time, however it would be onerous to wait until the end and narrate it that way, meaning the person who did his slot first may well have shot the melee combatant as he was running in, however if you want to go with real life its common knowledge among police etc that you need a certain amount of distance to be sure of getting a shotbefore a knifeman can stab you first. Getting away from an opponent is also harder as you either have to run through them, back off or turn your back on them.

I think they dont understand the narrative aspect of the game, and also have a holdover regarding attacks of opportunity from other games

Yep. The rule is 21 feet between an officer and an aggressor to have the time needed to draw the gun and fire it before the aggressor makes it to the officer. Same rules are taught in Concealed Carry classes.

The rule presumes that the person is trained in drawing, sighting and shooting from that position (hip or thigh mounted holster with a clear draw line). Need more distance to deal with ankle, in pocket or in waistband holsters draw times.

Assuming that the 6-meter-line is near the point at which "short" becomes "medium" distance - which is the case for my GM - the rules fit the statement of Kallabecca. It is possible to take strain to make two move maneuvers to go from medium to short and then to engage the target and attack. It is impossible (without a triumph in the initiative test or other events that grant additional maneuvers) to start the combat from a distance that is farther away than medium as a melee fighter and attack in the same round. So even if the ranged weapon guy has messed up his initiative test he will get a shot on the attacker. So i don't think attacks of opportunity are needed in this system.

Yes and in doing so would seriously cheapen things like the commander line of talents never mind the explorer signature ability, an extra in turn maneuver is extremely potent , out of turn more so, so just think how unbalanced bonus actions wouod be. I mean field commander in my mind is one of the single best talents in the game in terms of utility. Get caught surprised first pc goes field commander , then the requisite number of players could draw weapons , move for cover , or just aim(quick draw permitting). There are very few talents that allow an out of turn attack

Improved field commander but only if you roll q triumph.

In F&D there are some talents that allow attacks but they are highly situational qnd some call out that you can only do it if you didn't attack on your last turn.

Im sure there are a few more but it shows how powerful extra actions are in the game. Mind you first rule of rpg is the gm can house rule it however they want, although I woulldnt play with any gm who had the shortsightedness to do this, given that 2 or 3 shots can floor you in this system, it would make it impossible to play a melee charcter without at least having reflect

thank you guys very much on the input, i will be sharing this link with said friend... i do find it funny that so many of you refer to other RPG'S that allow attacks of opportunity because my friend has played very little dnd or other role playing games, all things considered i have played way more rpg's and this would be more along the lines of something i would have thought of... if i didnt think it would make the game some much more difficult, Especially those melee characters

One thing that can be hard for people to grasp is that the rounds in this game are not definite. Per RAW a round can last up to a minute, but should last enough for everyone to move and to perform an important action. So if the GM wants to narrate his combat in a way that one roll means it is quite a few shots being fired and other stuff going on for about a minute, he can. That doesn't make much sense to me though. Especially when you have weapons with limited ammo, or one shot weapons. "So I use my quantity 1 weapon, and just stand around for the next 55-58 seconds?"

I tend to make my rounds in combat lasts for just a few seconds of game time. That way I don't run into the above problem, or the problem that your GM seems to be having. Your GM is right, to a point. It doesn't make sense to have an enemy engage with someone and not fight back. Well, unless they are distracted, aiming, focused on a particular part of the combat field. They are focused on what they deem to be the immediate threat, and can easily be caught off guard by someone coming from the side or behind them. If some one was walking straight up to them, then the GM could and probably should narrate a Boost/Setback die(ce) as the person is now on guard and expecting the attack.

I hate using real life examples to make comparisons to RPG's, but I think this one works. I'm a retired Vet, and I have been in some real world live fire action before. Luckily nothing like in the movies, and nothing too heavy, but small arms fire and mortors!! When the action is going you get tunnel vision, and you can get hyper focused on one area, ignoring a lot of your surroundings. People could could have easily come up on me. I can't even imagine the fighting of 'Nam or WWII, or really anything else. The shear chaos is unreal.

Speaking of chaos, the GM should use the feeling chaos in the fights, and the loudness. Fights are not quite!! Even blasters in SW make a lot of noise and smoke and set things on fire! It happened in Empire on Cloud City!! The GM should make firefights feel nasty, noisy, chaotic, dirty, and all around horrible. Especially if the Characters are not combat types!! You throw 99.99999% of us into any type of real military training even using blanks, and see how quickly we get lost, confused, and shoot our team mates!! I give it about one minute.

Aye, the lack of awareness is definately a thing to consider. Even though the players can see the board the character probably won't have that degree of vision. Narratively speaking "slipping" past someone can literally be described as someone using the chaos to break through. One thing to consider is the action is more or less happening at the same time, so where the players are not aren't necessarily where they are, until they have moved.

One thing that can be hard for people to grasp is that the rounds in this game are not definite. Per RAW a round can last up to a minute, but should last enough for everyone to move and to perform an important action. So if the GM wants to narrate his combat in a way that one roll means it is quite a few shots being fired and other stuff going on for about a minute, he can. That doesn't make much sense to me though. Especially when you have weapons with limited ammo, or one shot weapons. "So I use my quantity 1 weapon, and just stand around for the next 55-58 seconds?"

I tend to make my rounds in combat lasts for just a few seconds of game time. That way I don't run into the above problem, or the problem that your GM seems to be having. Your GM is right, to a point. It doesn't make sense to have an enemy engage with someone and not fight back. Well, unless they are distracted, aiming, focused on a particular part of the combat field. They are focused on what they deem to be the immediate threat, and can easily be caught off guard by someone coming from the side or behind them. If some one was walking straight up to them, then the GM could and probably should narrate a Boost/Setback die(ce) as the person is now on guard and expecting the attack.

I hate using real life examples to make comparisons to RPG's, but I think this one works. I'm a retired Vet, and I have been in some real world live fire action before. Luckily nothing like in the movies, and nothing too heavy, but small arms fire and mortors!! When the action is going you get tunnel vision, and you can get hyper focused on one area, ignoring a lot of your surroundings. People could could have easily come up on me. I can't even imagine the fighting of 'Nam or WWII, or really anything else. The shear chaos is unreal.

Speaking of chaos, the GM should use the feeling chaos in the fights, and the loudness. Fights are not quite!! Even blasters in SW make a lot of noise and smoke and set things on fire! It happened in Empire on Cloud City!! The GM should make firefights feel nasty, noisy, chaotic, dirty, and all around horrible. Especially if the Characters are not combat types!! You throw 99.99999% of us into any type of real military training even using blanks, and see how quickly we get lost, confused, and shoot our team mates!! I give it about one minute.

First we have cool and discipline checks for battle chaos, second we are playing a cinematic system, we play characters like Luke, Han, Boba and Leia. We are literally the heroes, while a a retired veteran is just a minion. Speaking of minions, we literally can kill a bunch of them with a single shot of that duelling pistol. Guess against those guys we have plenty of time to reload, because are indeed victims of tunnel vision and battle chaos while our characters usually stay calm and collected while mortar explosions go on right next to them.

We do not have the time for that when fighting more skilled enemies and thus need to spend a maneuver to reload that duelling pistol, maybe spend another incidental for sidestep or dodge and another maneuver to take cover while reloading. But against minions we clearly can even reload that pistol and shoot again.

Again, we are playing a narrative and cinematic system and that sets the tone for the mechanics and actions.

Even Boba got hit in the back by a blind guy because he was concentrated on the threat in front him. He didn't have the super wherewithal to react, sidestep, dodge, or get a free attack of opportunity.