"I get into position and wait for him to move before I fire."

I know this is a thing in many older RPG's but I don't recall finding such in this system. Many of the gamers I play with have tried such a move at least once and I usuallt allow for it. However it still feels weird seeing how you are working with these "non-personal initiative slots" and how PC's already are quite quick to get the drop on their enemies by distrubting initiative as conveniently as possible. Such an interrupt made sense in the d20 system but here it just... I don't know... feels a bit too much at times.

How do you girls/guys deal with this?

If I recall a few classes, like Gunslinger, have talents that have a sort of 'overwatch' style action that can be used if NPCs haven't acted yet. So it's kinda there, sorta. And with initiative slots rather than character turn orders I think the system has it in it's own way.

I don't allow "overwatch" or "ready actions" or whatever they're called in various game systems. It just doesn't fit with the rules in this game. You have the very open initiative system, combined with talents like Rapid Reactions and the like that will allow characters to act quickly. If you're in a position where you want to hold off doing something until the other guy does something first, you're pretty much going to have to live with the possibility of him being faster than you.

In situations like ambushes and the like I typically assign boost dice to the ambushers' initiative checks and/or setback dice to the victims' checks in order to illustrate the benefits of being prepared. But if the dice are against you and someone on the opposing side kills at initiative, that's something you just have to live with.

I believe there is something about this in the book, when someone chooses to "ready" or "delay" an action, they simply pick a later initiative slot.

I believe there is something about this in the book, when someone chooses to "ready" or "delay" an action, they simply pick a later initiative slot.

The trick is this; to describe the action based on the dice roll, not the other way as many games do it. This system, your action is somewhat reactionary, but you have more vesatility in describing an action. I've found nothing is worse in a game than describing an action, especially an easy one, and having it fail. In this system you can have a general idea of what to do, but if the dice disagree with that action, you may be able to describe something else cool.

It's also worth reminding yourself the action camera is a bit farther back in this system.

D20 is, at it's heart, a rather nitty-gritty system that likes to zoom the camera in close and account for lots of little bits and pieces. And that works just fine for the typically small scale fights you'll find in each room of your average dungeon.

Since Star Wars needs to be able to scale up from a shootout in the alley behind a cantina all the way up to a large scale planetary invasion, getting into the weeds on any level, be it initiative, or gear, or species abilities, is going to slow things down and risk losing the cinematic feel of the game.

This is one of those things where you just have to remember that expecting something in an RPG to be so because it was that way in D20 is kinda like moving your Monopoly piece onto an opponents property and demanding it be "kinged."

Isn't this just where using cool instead of vigilance comes into play?

I believe there is something about this in the book, when someone chooses to "ready" or "delay" an action, they simply pick a later initiative slot.

Which isn't the same thing... But this is precisely why I asked.

I think from now on I will only allow 'readying' when a talent is involved.

Isn't this just where using cool instead of vigilance comes into play?

If it's pre initiative, yes.

I think Dante was more talking what if you're mid-combat and have that rat [individual with unknown/questionably legitimate parentage] smuggler pinned down behind a stack of crates with a high probability that on his initiative slot he will attempt to make a break for his ship's ramp and you say "I want to hold fire until he makes a run for it and then gun him down while he runs!"

Games systems like D20, with a more close in detailed take on combat allow you to literally hold your action and when whatever trigger event you set occurs immediately take the specified action as if it were your initiative slot.

D20 also handles initiative a little differently though, with things like each slot specifically being assigned to the character that generated it.

I don't allow "overwatch" or "ready actions" or whatever they're called in various game systems. It just doesn't fit with the rules in this game. You have the very open initiative system, combined with talents like Rapid Reactions and the like that will allow characters to act quickly. If you're in a position where you want to hold off doing something until the other guy does something first, you're pretty much going to have to live with the possibility of him being faster than you.

In situations like ambushes and the like I typically assign boost dice to the ambushers' initiative checks and/or setback dice to the victims' checks in order to illustrate the benefits of being prepared. But if the dice are against you and someone on the opposing side kills at initiative, that's something you just have to live with.

I think I agree. No more 'readying' you can wait in line but a turn is a turn. So no "if he moves, then I shoot".

But wouldn't you allow a specific talent for it either? Because in that case I definitely would allow it...

Isn't this just where using cool instead of vigilance comes into play?

If it's pre initiative, yes.

I think Dante was more talking what if you're mid-combat and have that rat [individual with unknown/questionably legitimate parentage] smuggler pinned down behind a stack of crates with a high probability that on his initiative slot he will attempt to make a break for his ship's ramp and you say "I want to hold fire until he makes a run for it and then gun him down while he runs!"

Games systems like D20, with a more close in detailed take on combat allow you to literally hold your action and when whatever trigger event you set occurs immediately take the specified action as if it were your initiative slot.

D20 also handles initiative a little differently though, with things like each slot specifically being assigned to the character that generated it.

This is precisely what I meant.

Isn't this just where using cool instead of vigilance comes into play?

If it's pre initiative, yes.

I think Dante was more talking what if you're mid-combat and have that rat [individual with unknown/questionably legitimate parentage] smuggler pinned down behind a stack of crates with a high probability that on his initiative slot he will attempt to make a break for his ship's ramp and you say "I want to hold fire until he makes a run for it and then gun him down while he runs!"

Games systems like D20, with a more close in detailed take on combat allow you to literally hold your action and when whatever trigger event you set occurs immediately take the specified action as if it were your initiative slot.

D20 also handles initiative a little differently though, with things like each slot specifically being assigned to the character that generated it.

This is precisely what I meant.

And the system is a little more abstract and takes into account that the smuggler might wait for a good moment to make his daring escape out of cover to run, most likely will he forced his opponents first down with some cover fire. Besides you could just flank him for a maneuver and make his cover go away anyway, so why adding a maneuver should is supposed to do the same thing just later anyway?

System is abstract, no need imho to add more stuff to the already plenty of systems and rules.

I wouldn't have a problem letting someone set up for opportunity fire if they agree to let that initiative slot slide downward until they use it. Of course, they might effectively skip a whole turn or more doing that, but so what? It's their decision. I don't see why it should be prevented, or cause any GM consternation.

That said, I would discourage it before allowing it: it makes for more record keeping on my part, and the game is already structured to handle most similar situations. So before the player decides on it I'd suggest that the normal way the slots work should be sufficient. Also, in a sense you do already get opportunity actions because the game doesn't enforce discrete individual time slices that don't overlap. Instead, overlap is expected. The rat smuggler can't make his escape without exposing himself to any and all shots between the end of his turn and the beginning of his next. The best he can do is use a maneuver to get into cover, which only applies setback.

Oftentimes just having the player waiting to act just take a later PC slot in the initiative is enough. There are surely instances where this won't work, but it's worked 7 times our of 8 for me. In the case where I actually do have to rearrange the initiative order, I just move the last PC slot to the end.

Ah, I guess I wasn't clear.

The situation I am adressing is as follows, the player takes his manouver. He then readies his action.

The npc takes his manouver and then, as an incidental, the player takes his action. Something that happens often in d20 games but is neither in this game nor does it feel like it should be.

However, it brings up a touchy point sometimes...

"I run into the other room and aim for the door. As soon as he walks in I will let rip with my blaster."

This situation came up in our game earlier and I allowed it, eventhough thenrules don't account for it and the system isn't set up like it. The reason I allowed it was because it would have been weird not to, yet the outcome just didn't feel right.

Ah, I guess I wasn't clear.

The situation I am adressing is as follows, the player takes his manouver. He then readies his action.

The npc takes his manouver and then, as an incidental, the player takes his action. Something that happens often in d20 games but is neither in this game nor does it feel like it should be.

However, it brings up a touchy point sometimes...

"I run into the other room and aim for the door. As soon as he walks in I will let rip with my blaster."

This situation came up in our game earlier and I allowed it, eventhough thenrules don't account for it and the system isn't set up like it. The reason I allowed it was because it would have been weird not to, yet the outcome just didn't feel right.

Ambushes are dealt as a cool vs vigilance check. And the rules even state that if you end up with higher initiative than the ambusher than the vigilant guy trumps the not so cool one. It is not really a touchy point, it's just an unfamiliar system. We have something to roll dice for to being so cool to wait for the last moment to ambush someone instead of an auto-success.

And the best part about is that you can as GM now easily ambush player characters without being overly careful out of fear to wipe the whole group with a decently prepared ambush, the rules are … cinematic enough to handle this.

"I run into the other room and aim for the door. As soon as he walks in I will let rip with my blaster."

As noted, that's an ambush. He rolls his Cool, and the target rolls their Vigilance.

Guys... The battle is on. This happens mid battle, not before rolling initiative.

Guys... The battle is on. This happens mid battle, not before rolling initiative.

If it happens mid battle than what is this supposed to represent? It represents not shooting and just positing yourself. The other guy now just assembles his dice pool and the GM describes how the PC who waits at the door gets shot true the door. Well or not, depending if the attack hits or not. Or the door flies open and the opponent dives already and hits the PC with his whole body … or combat really died down enough to justify to start a second encounter because everyone was backing off.

What was this PC doing? Sitting for minutes at this door and doing nothing while everyone was fighting elsewhere? Init rules apply for the whole scene. A character who spends a maneuver to open that door and another to reposition can do this just fine, shoot then and THeN maybe gets shot, because the next init slot is used by the character who was waiting for this to happen. Outside of talents there are no interrupting actions. And you know, you get enough advantages for working the opponent to waste an maneuver to open the door anyway. That could be two setback dice or two boost dice instead of just walking in the room and trying to shoot someone.

I am sorry I even asked.

You know, I'm okay with someone hidden and trying to get the drop on someone being one-upped in initiative. How many times do we see in westerns a gunman hidden and waiting for Our Hero to walk into his sights. The Hero enters the alley, there's a close up on his eyes shifting, he whirls suddenly and guns the other man down.

It might have been a glint off the sniper scope. It might have been that Our Hero was just in a state of heightened awareness, sometimes S just happens.

A well hidden assassin might get some blues to his initiative roll or perhaps an upgrade - but not getting the drop on someone is a pretty standard hollywood trope.

Ah, I guess I wasn't clear.

The situation I am adressing is as follows, the player takes his manouver. He then readies his action.

The npc takes his manouver and then, as an incidental, the player takes his action. Something that happens often in d20 games but is neither in this game nor does it feel like it should be.

However, it brings up a touchy point sometimes...

"I run into the other room and aim for the door. As soon as he walks in I will let rip with my blaster."

This situation came up in our game earlier and I allowed it, eventhough thenrules don't account for it and the system isn't set up like it. The reason I allowed it was because it would have been weird not to, yet the outcome just didn't feel right.

Ahh, good point! I think I've previously allowed this - makes sense you shouldn't have to concurrently perform your maneuvers and action at the same time!

I'd probably allow it if it's narrated well enough, just as you've described.

I am sorry I even asked.

Why? Plenty of systems allow for interrupting actions, overwatch like action delay, etc

And before you mention I basically had basically the same questions and would have handled it the same you did. The best topics are those when everyone can get something out of it and for me this was certainly a good thing to get a better grasp how to handle this system.

Guys... The battle is on. This happens mid battle, not before rolling initiative.

Understood, but I would just set up a separate initiative moment. Just because you already have an order doesn't mean you can't have a suborder. Where they fit after the suborder is resolved depends on when in the larger order the suborder was initiated. Of course, while they wait, they can't be participating in anything in the larger order. For the one waiting, getting fired on, taking damage, etc will negatively impact their Cool (instead of Simple, add difficulty).

Aiming maneuver covers this quite well in combination with the Initiative system, it's you taking your time to prepare and sight your opponent. I mean it's assumed that every character is doing their best to kill everyone else. Of course if the GM is playing the NPC properly then they are unlikely aware of the PC aiming at the door, so they may need a perception check to even know to dive for cover.

That PC could easily be on the other side of the door too, and say "I kick the door down, shooting everything that moves"

GM replies "Well the moment the door opens your shot in the face so pause your turn for a moment to see how much damage you take..."

I think if you put it to them like that then they are likely to say let's just keep it as it is and not be afraid for every door we open.