Ugh okay enough. This is getting boring. Every Imperial list I make except for mass squadron lists has to ask if it would be better simply adding more activations and Demolisher.

The boogeyman of wave1 was actually also Demolisher: In the Screed VGGG build.

Nowadays, we've simply replaced some of the Glads for the even more activation efficient Raiders.

And Clon's figuring out that you can really get value out of a lot of upgrades on that ship makes it so much more warping.

Don't get me wrong. I love Demolisher and i LOVE Gladiators. I have three beloveds who rarely see much play time now. (Especially that 3rd one). But ****, I keep having to ask if the Clonisher Demolisher is better.

And I hate that its making me feel like that 3rd Gladiator is just sitting in the wings, lonely and waiting to be played.

Topic tangent: Does anyone else feel really sad when their extra buys from previous waves get not used?

I really feel for that Gladiator. =/ I've been playing mostly Rebels recently and then 2G3R makes more sense. I finally got to play it again today and I fell back in love with the 3Glad lists.

Although, I really really do feel like they're not better than the 3R2G and 4R1G lists.

I have plenty of Empire builds that are as competitive as Clonisher builds, and they are built with all of the top-tier decks in mind. Every build includes Demolisher though, its just too good. With 4 ships there arent a loy of options for Empire.

Yeah, even decked out its clearly one of the best value-for-points option out there.

I've been toying with the idea of a 5 glad list that might be fun...

Yeah the thing is the Gladiator is 1/4 of the Imperial stock (until the Gozanti). And Demolisher is just too good not to add. So if you're using at least 1 Gladiator it makes sense to find 10 points to get Demolisher.

Nothing wrong with a 3 glad high activation list, they are very good ships ( more points efficient and tanky than a raider with expanded launchers) run one as Demo for your round two/three hit, the second as insidious decked for small ship hunting for your round three/four hit, glad three can act as a trapping piece ( slow played ) so rounds five and six you will have glad three as blocking/trap/anvil, demo will have swung back for a trip tap and insidious will be hanging around the back for a nice mid range arc.

Nothing wrong with a 3 glad high activation list, they are very good ships ( more points efficient and tanky than a raider with expanded launchers) run one as Demo for your round two/three hit, the second as insidious decked for small ship hunting for your round three/four hit, glad three can act as a trapping piece ( slow played ) so rounds five and six you will have glad three as blocking/trap/anvil, demo will have swung back for a trip tap and insidious will be hanging around the back for a nice mid range arc.

Exactly, now add 2 more gladiators.

Fun!

Fun with glads
Author: Hastatior

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 384/400

Commander: Admiral Screed

Assault Objective: Advanced Gunnery
Defense Objective: Hyperspace Assault
Navigation Objective: Dangerous Territory

Gladiator I-Class Star Destroyer (56 points)
- Demolisher ( 10 points)
- Engine Techs ( 8 points)
- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)

Gladiator I-Class Star Destroyer (56 points)
- Insidious ( 3 points)
- Engine Techs ( 8 points)
- Expanded Launchers ( 13 points)

Gladiator I-Class Star Destroyer (56 points)
- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)

[ flagship ] Gladiator I-Class Star Destroyer (56 points)
- Admiral Screed ( 26 points)
- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)

Gladiator I-Class Star Destroyer (56 points)
- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)

2 TIE Fighter Squadrons ( 16 points)

Fleet created with Armada Warlords

I'm working on multiple fleets that can take on the Clonisher and my Rebel activation-based counter.

My carrier fleet has come close to killing a ship at least!

You shouldn't have to ask "Would adding Demo be better?" everytime you build an imp list.

Because the answer is always "yes." So stop asking and just start beginning you lists with a Demo.

Any and all Imperial lists I build will have a Demolisher!

Let's be honest if you had to choose between a TIE fighter or adding Demolisher, you're going to pick Demolisher every single time. Even as second player it's still a good ship.

There is no shame in using it.

Yeah the thing is the Gladiator is 1/4 of the Imperial stock (until the Gozanti). And Demolisher is just too good not to add. So if you're using at least 1 Gladiator it makes sense to find 10 points to get Demolisher.

I'm really hoping Vsds get some help in newer expansions.

Demolisher is okay I GUESS

Sorry if this has already been said.

Imperials have a severe lack of choice when it comes to fleets, and suffer a chronic problem with bringing the ISD/VSD(all dice) front arcs into play for more than one round per game.

VSD's are almost useless, I'd rather take 1 ISD I with Wulff, BC/EXHang to activate 6 squadrons all at once, than 2 VSDs to do 3 each, having 6 squadrons all go at once is far far superior to 3+3.

Raiders....I like Raiders, and use them a lot, but they are not designed for front line brawling, and can die to squadrons pretty easily.

So you have GSD's, decent ships, decent cost, can take engine techs, if you are taking a GSD, why would you not take Demolisher? the utility it adds allows Imperials to circumnavigate the one major issue they have, getting into a spot you can use your black dice.

I'm not by any chalk of the imagination stating that Imperials "need" Demolisher to be competitive, I have played many many games without it and won more than my share, but it does remove that frustration factor, and that is a big plus.

I'm really hoping Vsds get some help in newer expansions.

3 naked Gozanti cruisers is a less than a VSD1. 3 with Boosted Comms or Expanded Hangers is still cheaper than a VSD2.

The VSD is dead until wave 4. Minimum. They'd need to issue a completely new ship card to fix it now. It's blatantly outperformed by all other snips in at least one configuration.

I'm really hoping Vsds get some help in newer expansions.

3 naked Gozanti cruisers is a less than a VSD1. 3 with Boosted Comms or Expanded Hangers is still cheaper than a VSD2.

The VSD is dead until wave 4. Minimum. They'd need to issue a completely new ship card to fix it now. It's blatantly outperformed by all other snips in at least one configuration.

Eh, there are some situations where you'd want to have efficiency of hull points in, y'know, one place. With a brace. And Redirects... vs an Evade and Scatter...

Not, all the time, sure. But some situations.

Two thoughts:

1. Demolisher will get significantly less powerful in wave 3 when flotillas become an excellent screening tool to prevent the demolisher rush, and greatly incentivize the use of more squadrons.
2. The VSD is the most outclassed ship in the game right now primarily because of its inability to maneuver. Even were it still speed 2 max, if the movement chart was II at speed one and then I/I or I/II at speed 2, it would be very playable. I think that is the core flaw that needs to be addressed (that or making it cheaper) if it is going to see much play in wave 3 or forward.

I'm really hoping Vsds get some help in newer expansions.

3 naked Gozanti cruisers is a less than a VSD1. 3 with Boosted Comms or Expanded Hangers is still cheaper than a VSD2.

The VSD is dead until wave 4. Minimum. They'd need to issue a completely new ship card to fix it now. It's blatantly outperformed by all other snips in at least one configuration.

Don't be so sure of that, Cactus (and/or others).

We don't know how the meta will fully shake out. We've talked about flotillas blocking Demo and such; I could also see them being used, (perhaps in conjunction with Jamming Field to stop nav commands) to channel ships into VSD front arcs.

Even the very wise cannot see all ends (except Tzeentch, who is the only one truly capable of knowing how all the tendrils of possibility reach out and affect this.)

I see people down play the VSD and I laugh and laugh. It honestly hilarious!

Sure the VSD has a horrible maneuver but at the same time it is a monster in its own right. One has to have more skill to make the VSD dance,but dance it can!

I see people down play the VSD and I laugh and laugh. It honestly hilarious!

Sure the VSD has a horrible maneuver but at the same time it is a monster in its own right. One has to have more skill to make the VSD dance,but dance it can!

Every day, it's shuffling.

I see people down play the VSD and I laugh and laugh. It honestly hilarious!

Sure the VSD has a horrible maneuver but at the same time it is a monster in its own right. One has to have more skill to make the VSD dance,but dance it can!

Every day, it's shuffling.

Know your ships as you know the enemy.

I see people down play the VSD and I laugh and laugh. It honestly hilarious!

Sure the VSD has a horrible maneuver but at the same time it is a monster in its own right. One has to have more skill to make the VSD dance,but dance it can!

Every day, it's shuffling.

It really does shuffle. You have to plan it's moves turns in advance. Speed 2 is a trap for it most times.

Know your ships as you know the enemy.

I actually ran a VSD again recently after a very long time not running one. It's easy to forget how sturdy it is for the points, and while the manouverability is suck, if you can funnel enemies into it, it can take a beating and dish one out.

It reminds me of people talking about using B-wing swarms as minefields, VSDs are similar area denial elements that could pair well with a few gladiators or an ISD and Demo.

Taking nothing but VSDs (I have seen this at tournaments) is a good way to get tabled, however.

I see people down play the VSD and I laugh and laugh. It honestly hilarious!

Sure the VSD has a horrible maneuver but at the same time it is a monster in its own right. One has to have more skill to make the VSD dance,but dance it can!

Every day, it's shuffling.

It really does shuffle. You have to plan it's moves turns in advance. Speed 2 is a trap for it most times.

Know your ships as you know the enemy.

I actually ran a VSD again recently after a very long time not running one. It's easy to forget how sturdy it is for the points, and while the manouverability is suck, if you can funnel enemies into it, it can take a beating and dish one out.

It reminds me of people talking about using B-wing swarms as minefields, VSDs are similar area denial elements that could pair well with a few gladiators or an ISD and Demo.

Taking nothing but VSDs (I have seen this at tournaments) is a good way to get tabled, however.

I took 5 VSDs and Motti to a Store Championships.

I did not perform greatly, but the only time I came close to being Tabled was in the final game, where due to distraction and rules disputes on the next table that I had to Judge for, I flew 2 of them off the Board...

FIF-TY HULL!

FIF-TY HULL!

FIF-TY HULL!

I see people down play the VSD and I laugh and laugh. It honestly hilarious!

Sure the VSD has a horrible maneuver but at the same time it is a monster in its own right. One has to have more skill to make the VSD dance,but dance it can!

Every day, it's shuffling.

It really does shuffle. You have to plan it's moves turns in advance. Speed 2 is a trap for it most times.

Know your ships as you know the enemy.

I actually ran a VSD again recently after a very long time not running one. It's easy to forget how sturdy it is for the points, and while the manouverability is suck, if you can funnel enemies into it, it can take a beating and dish one out.

It reminds me of people talking about using B-wing swarms as minefields, VSDs are similar area denial elements that could pair well with a few gladiators or an ISD and Demo.

Taking nothing but VSDs (I have seen this at tournaments) is a good way to get tabled, however.

I took 5 VSDs and Motti to a Store Championships.

I did not perform greatly, but the only time I came close to being Tabled was in the final game, where due to distraction and rules disputes on the next table that I had to Judge for, I flew 2 of them off the Board...

FIF-TY HULL!

FIF-TY HULL!

FIF-TY HULL!

This is clearly a lie, as it implies VSD's are able to cross the table.

Or you deployed them backwards maybe?