And if a critical effect generates more damage, nowhere it says it doesn't count as part of the original attack.

Nowhere does it say it does count, either.

The rules says so. Critical hits (and effects) from the attack are resolved immediately, under the very own "dealing damage step" of the very same attack, which makes all damage part of the same attack.

What you are trying to imply, however, is that during an attack there's 2 different sources of damage, the attacker, and the critical hits, as if the latter were a different entity than the attacker, or were not part of the same attack, or more precisely, the same 'dealing damage step', since you will be dealing damage two times, once for the 'attack', and another one for the 'critical hits that generate damage'.

I am going out on a limb here. Maareks ability states 'When your attack deals', not 'When you deal'

So we are not discussing if Maarek or the Critical effect are the source of the damage. All faceup damage cards dealt by the attack are subject to Maareks ability. Of cause any uncancelled crit is subject and if Maarek draws and picks Major Explosion, the faceup damage card must immediately be resolved. The critical effect is clearly caused by the attack so any critical damage caused by resolving this must also be caused by the attack. It doesn't matter if it was the attack role or the dice roll from the Major explosion that caused the damage.

You could argue that Maarek's ability that chose the damage card that caused the cascading damage was part of his attack, actually, as it was his ability that specifically directed that card, ergo the damage from that card is a direct result of Maarek selecting it, thus making it part of the attack. And that's if you ignore the obvious parts of the rules that already show us that it's part of the attack.

Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it isn't true.

So I got an answer on this one from Frank

In response to your rules question:

Yeah but as the last faq showed email answers are not worth anything because the official ruling will likely rule the other way.

Well this reply came with the wave of answers that came at the same time as the FAQ. Most of those mails referee to the new FAQ but not this one. If it should be answered in an FAQ it should have been part of the latest.

Yeah but as the last faq showed email answers are not worth anything because the official ruling will likely rule the other way.

This.

I'm sure Frank's answers carry a lot of weight but they are not always the end all, tell all when it comes to a final ruling. He is but a piece in the engine that turns out the official rulings which we see in the FAQ. If this was discussed before the FAQ and this was the agreed upon ruling then it probably should show up in the FAQ. If you want examples of emails providing "wrong" answers I think the biggest stink was the Scum dial fiasco where I believe <5% of people really thought you should need dials to also match ship faction, 50%+ who figuring faction shouldn't matter when it comes to the dial, and everyone else who thought the dial faction should matter just because Frank said so.

I'm inclined to think that secondary explosions (ie more damage cards being dealt) during an attack are still part of that attack. I see Rexlar mentioned before and if I recall the ruling for him it allows for any cards end up face down that were dealt as part of the attack to be turned up; this doesn't care if they were dealt face-up originally but then had other immediate effects which allowed them to be turned down. If Rexlar hit and landed that Major Explosion and the explosion turned up something that would immediately resolve and be turned down when Rexlar's ability was used he'd get to turn both of those previously face-up cards face-up again allowing them to resolve all over again. If this is how Rexlar works then why shouldn't Maarek get to cherry pick all the face-up cards deal as an immediate result of his attack?

Yeah but as the last faq showed email answers are not worth anything because the official ruling will likely rule the other way.

This.

I'm sure Frank's answers carry a lot of weight but they are not always the end all, tell all when it comes to a final ruling. He is but a piece in the engine that turns out the official rulings which we see in the FAQ. If this was discussed before the FAQ and this was the agreed upon ruling then it probably should show up in the FAQ. If you want examples of emails providing "wrong" answers I think the biggest stink was the Scum dial fiasco where I believe <5% of people really thought you should need dials to also match ship faction, 50%+ who figuring faction shouldn't matter when it comes to the dial, and everyone else who thought the dial faction should matter just because Frank said so.

I'm inclined to think that secondary explosions (ie more damage cards being dealt) during an attack are still part of that attack. I see Rexlar mentioned before and if I recall the ruling for him it allows for any cards end up face down that were dealt as part of the attack to be turned up; this doesn't care if they were dealt face-up originally but then had other immediate effects which allowed them to be turned down. If Rexlar hit and landed that Major Explosion and the explosion turned up something that would immediately resolve and be turned down when Rexlar's ability was used he'd get to turn both of those previously face-up cards face-up again allowing them to resolve all over again. If this is how Rexlar works then why shouldn't Maarek get to cherry pick all the face-up cards deal as an immediate result of his attack?

The difference is that Rexlar's ability is an "after attacking trigger" (I guess he'd get to flip up everything from a Cluster Missile attack with one focus token) and Maarek's triggers as his attack is dealing damage cards.

....

The difference is that Rexlar's ability is an "after attacking trigger" (I guess he'd get to flip up everything from a Cluster Missile attack with one focus token) and Maarek's triggers as his attack is dealing damage cards.

Rexlar's ability triggers on the cards the attack deals right? Maarek's ability triggers when his attack deals face-up cards. So in both cases aren't they looking at the exact same cards? It sure seems to me like they should both work the same way.

The same cards but at different times.

....

The difference is that Rexlar's ability is an "after attacking trigger" (I guess he'd get to flip up everything from a Cluster Missile attack with one focus token) and Maarek's triggers as his attack is dealing damage cards.

Rexlar's ability triggers on the cards the attack deals right? Maarek's ability triggers when his attack deals face-up cards. So in both cases aren't they looking at the exact same cards? It sure seems to me like they should both work the same way.

That makes sense. It does seem like if one of them works both of them should. Both abilities refer to damage or cards dealt by the attack rather than by "you"/

The same cards but at different times.

But apparently it's NOT the "same cards" although it sure seems to me like they should be.

That makes sense. It does seem like if one of them works both of them should. Both abilities refer to damage or cards dealt by the attack rather than by "you"/

It sure does seem to me like FFG could greatly benefit from a lot more consistent use of templates when it comes to various things. It's a bit confusing when X and x sure may look the same and even sound the same but they aren't the same.

The same cards but at different times.

But apparently it's NOT the "same cards" although it sure seems to me like they should be.

That makes sense. It does seem like if one of them works both of them should. Both abilities refer to damage or cards dealt by the attack rather than by "you"/

It sure does seem to me like FFG could greatly benefit from a lot more consistent use of templates when it comes to various things. It's a bit confusing when X and x sure may look the same and even sound the same but they aren't the same.

It doesn't help when they are effects on cards that see very little play time. It took U-Boats blowing up for the R4 Agromech inconsistent FAQ entry to get changed.

That's an issue with some abilities. Sometimes they slip through the cracks. Other times they get pounded down hard even before they could become an issue. I wonder how much cheaper Rymer's would need to be to see play and then how much more before he could be considered broken. At least he has an ability with obvious implications instead of some of these less obvious abilities and the questions and possible complex interactions that come with them.

The same cards but at different times.

But apparently it's NOT the "same cards" although it sure seems to me like they should be.

They are the same cards, but the pilot abilities trigger at different points on the Timing Chart.

• Maarek Stele - Triggers at Step 7, part iv. Triggers once for each faceup damage card dealt.
• Rexler Brath - Triggers at Step 8. Triggers once for entire attack (and before Gunner, etc.)

That's an issue with some abilities. Sometimes they slip through the cracks. Other times they get pounded down hard even before they could become an issue. I wonder how much cheaper Rymer's would need to be to see play and then how much more before he could be considered broken. At least he has an ability with obvious implications instead of some of these less obvious abilities and the questions and possible complex interactions that come with them.

Funny, because most named pilote ability are "free" or cost like 1 point. Look at Vader, go from Pilot Skill 2 to Pilot Skill 9 for 8 points, so his Push The Limit without stress is 1 point or even free (Going from Pilot 8 to 9 seems to cost 2 points instead of 1 if we look at the new Poe). Then Rhymer should be 21 points, but they decided that changing the range of a secondary weapon, that were already really bad at the time, would cost FIVE!!!!!!!!!!! points...

That's an issue with some abilities. Sometimes they slip through the cracks. Other times they get pounded down hard even before they could become an issue. I wonder how much cheaper Rymer's would need to be to see play and then how much more before he could be considered broken. At least he has an ability with obvious implications instead of some of these less obvious abilities and the questions and possible complex interactions that come with them.

Funny, because most named pilote ability are "free" or cost like 1 point. Look at Vader, go from Pilot Skill 2 to Pilot Skill 9 for 8 points, so his Push The Limit without stress is 1 point or even free (Going from Pilot 8 to 9 seems to cost 2 points instead of 1 if we look at the new Poe). Then Rhymer should be 21 points, but they decided that changing the range of a secondary weapon, that were already really bad at the time, would cost FIVE!!!!!!!!!!! points...

At 21 or 22 points I actually think Rhymers would see a good bit of play although that puts it at the price of the PS 7 Jonus who we know is there because of his super Howlrunner command ability. Even at 23 points it would be a big improvement especially looking at Bren at PS8 with what is likely to be an abusable pilot skill. Advanced Missiles with their R2 are made for Rhymer except he just costs too darn much.

So I got an answer on this one from Frank

In response to your rules question:

Rules Question:

Hi Recently a question has been discussed on the forums regarding Maarek Stele and the Major Explosion critical damage card effect. The question is, does the additional critical damage caused by Major Explosion count as being caused by Maareks attack, thus triggering his pilot ability again? More broadly what counts as being dealt by the attack? Does damage from being tractor beamed onto an obstacle count? Does damage caused by Dace Bonearm count? Or is it only damage directly caused by uncancelled attack dice?

Only the critical damage caused directly from uncanceled attack dice count for his ability, not any critical damage the ship may suffer during his attack.

Thanks for playing,

Frank Brooks

Associate Creative Content Developer

Fantasy Flight Games

[email protected]

I think you should not consider this, unless the other critical damage card is taken into consideration: Major Hull Breach, mentioned in the other thread. I think that the mail ruling is wrong in this case.

This should become a part of FAQ.

That's an issue with some abilities. Sometimes they slip through the cracks. Other times they get pounded down hard even before they could become an issue. I wonder how much cheaper Rymer's would need to be to see play and then how much more before he could be considered broken. At least he has an ability with obvious implications instead of some of these less obvious abilities and the questions and possible complex interactions that come with them.

Funny, because most named pilote ability are "free" or cost like 1 point. Look at Vader, go from Pilot Skill 2 to Pilot Skill 9 for 8 points, so his Push The Limit without stress is 1 point or even free (Going from Pilot 8 to 9 seems to cost 2 points instead of 1 if we look at the new Poe). Then Rhymer should be 21 points, but they decided that changing the range of a secondary weapon, that were already really bad at the time, would cost FIVE!!!!!!!!!!! points...

At 21 or 22 points I actually think Rhymers would see a good bit of play although that puts it at the price of the PS 7 Jonus who we know is there because of his super Howlrunner command ability. Even at 23 points it would be a big improvement especially looking at Bren at PS8 with what is likely to be an abusable pilot skill. Advanced Missiles with their R2 are made for Rhymer except he just costs too darn much.

Well all the Elite Bomber are priced too high... Jonus should have bean 20 and Rhymer 22. The new one is priced ok with 24. His pilot ability is very good, and he is a 8 pilot skill.

It remain to be seen if Bren Crack shot Tactician is a thing...

I think you should not consider this, unless the other critical damage card is taken into consideration: Major Hull Breach, mentioned in the other thread. I think that the mail ruling is wrong in this case.

Major Hull Breach has a different mechanic - it affects the attack's cards, rather than dealing an extra card. They don't have to be treated the same way.

I think you should not consider this, unless the other critical damage card is taken into consideration: Major Hull Breach, mentioned in the other thread. I think that the mail ruling is wrong in this case.

Major Hull Breach has a different mechanic - it affects the attack's cards, rather than dealing an extra card. They don't have to be treated the same way.

I saw that other thread and immediately thought about this one although they are talking about different cards.

I think Maarek should have no trouble working with either of them but I can see how it may be viewed different ways.

I referred to the "mail ruling" by Frank. Maarek's ability, hopefully, is not only used in case of his own, not cancelled critical hit results on dice. In such case Major Hull Breach would not work, same as Crits added by Major Explosion... And going further, what about Advanced Homing Missiles? What if Maareks tractor beamed someone onto a rock/debries and caused a critical hit?

OK, if a critical damage is caused by an obstacle was a step too far. But if you cannot use his ability on the AHM, then that is... weird. I don't see the logic...