Wait, Xbear was serious about the karma thing? I just laughed when I saw it and didn't think much of it. Religion and games have no connection at all. (Except for games about religion lol).

Not true. I get very religious right before I roll my dice.

There is a reason Euro Gamers hate Ameritrash

Given the popularity of Warhammer in Europe, I don't think Europeans hate dice.

I've had this conversation with my friends a number of times about games with high variance. Mostly it is in relation to Magic, but the same logic applies here. Basically, because variance does play a pretty significant role in X-Wing you need to play a critical mass of events to really get a gauge on how good you are. The Magic pros spend pretty much all their free time playing Magic, because they need to make sure their own play mistakes don't hamstring them more than the variance already can. This is why, over the last couple years, you'll see a massive increase in cracking down on cheating. Jared Boettcher was the Rookie of the Year, winning an unprecedented amount in his first real season as a Magic pro. It was soon discovered (because the matches are streamed and the video is available) that he was cheating with a shady shuffling technique. He was beating the variance, and he was cheating to do so.

Placing in the Top 8 of a Pro Tour at all is hard, and nearly impossible to do it multiple times in a season, and extremely difficult to do it multiple times in a career. Poker, Magic, X-Wing, and even NASCAR all have a ton of variance that is an artificial equalizer. There is certainly skill in all of those examples, but there is more room at the top because of the variance.

X-Wing is still really young in terms of competitive play. I see a lot of non-meta lists and people trying out new builds in competitive scenarios. For people who hate the meta the bad news is that it will only get worse. The level of competition is going to be higher as time goes on, and flying a meta list is one of the best ways to reduce the variance. This same news is good news for people who like to compete, where the actual ships on the table play second fiddle to the strategy and tactics you use while flying.

That being said, even though I fall into the latter camp I hope FFG ramps up their Scenario production or the community takes responsibility and starts creating fan-made scenarios. This is the major advantage X-Wing has over games like Magic: They can still appeal to the casual crowd even though the competitive scene will only get more difficult to enter.

I totally agree. I'm firmly in the casual camp, no interest in competitive events at all, and if the Cinematic and Epic modes of play die a natural death due to FFG focusing all their attention on the competitive side of the game, I will be a sad panda.

There is a reason Euro Gamers hate Ameritrash

Given the popularity of Warhammer in Europe, I don't think Europeans hate dice.

Euro Gamers =/= Europeans

Wait, Xbear was serious about the karma thing? I just laughed when I saw it and didn't think much of it. Religion and games have no connection at all. (Except for games about religion lol).

karma is not religion. nobody who commented on karma in this thread seems to know or understand karma and how it interacts with free will. it seems you all read what karma is in a two word definition in the back of your morning cereal boxes.

it's like saying kindness is religion because Jesus spoke about kindness. yet you can say be kind to your opponent, fly casual. so there.

You really need to leave all this Karma stuff at the door when you step in here.

Karma? I didn't know we were playing the old Marvel Superheroes game!

So I'm going to preface this by saying that it's entirely possible that your dice really are just crap; that they just aren't up to specs, and you got all the rejects that roll badly. If that's really the case, I'd advise you to buy some new ones or use the dice app.

But in general, dice are not to blame. If you ARE consistently blaming dice for your defeats, you're never going to improve. What's more, there are plenty of examples out there of great players consistently placing well despite having to deal with RNG as much as anyone else (we have a threepeat World Champion, for God's sake).

Here's my opinion: if you're losing because of dice, that means you've got to take a look at either your list building or your flying. Good lists have lots of failsafes for bad dice -- from actions and modifications to just rolling a whole bunch of 'em. Likewise, good pilots have methods for dealing with dice. If you get a good setup, one bad shot shouldn't lose the game for you; and you should be able to capitalize when you get good shots.

Another factor that plays into dice hate a lot is how these things stick around in our heads. We're much better at remembering the times when the dice screwed us over than the times when they helped us. But think of it this way -- you know every time anyone has every complained about the dice being SOOO unlucky for them in this game? Each of those times is also a time when the dice were super lucky for someone else. But how many people post up stories of their lucky rolls?

Really, the thing about randomness is that it all evens out eventually. I've been playing since Wave One, and there's exactly one game that I can remember playing in which the dice played a significant factor in an outcome; and even then, I still don't (and didn't) blame the dice for the loss, since it was my own crappy flying that put me in a position where I had to rely on RNG.

So anyway. Sorry your dice are sucking, but stick it out. It'll get better as you get better (and if it doesn't, nuke 'em and get some fresh plastic ).

There is a reason Euro Gamers hate Ameritrash

Given the popularity of Warhammer in Europe, I don't think Europeans hate dice.

Euro Gamers =/= Europeans

Naturally, however since we're talking about gamers, and warhammer is a game, and the ETC is one of the worlds biggest gaming organisations, I think we can dispense with the semantics in this instance.

It's legal to mark your dice now, so mark them with lead OP.

Religion and games have no connection at all. (Except for games about religion lol).

I just realized how much of a hypocrite I am. I pray to Nuffle and Jackson Howard every night.

I just want to let you know, that if Karma existed I would be ROLLING in good fortune, wealth, and so on. So would my father, and my Great Aunt.

[...]

I'm sorry to hear of your difficulties, I spent the greater part of my life unemployed, and only very recently did I find a more stable job. also my family had its share of serious health problems. I hope things turn for the better for you and your family, soon, and don't give up

Same for both of you.

Personally i dont like the highly competitive scene in any game. Not because i cant do it, but because i have no fun running the "best" lists and curbstomping people. No challenge, no fun.

That, and when its a non-video game it tends to ALWAYS have a debate at some point over a rule that takes longer than the game itself. Or, spend 5+ minutes trying to get that marker just right so i am indeed in range and not barely out - if you cant tell immediately, im not in range. I play that way both because it saves times and things get bumped all the **** time so how can i tell that you are or arent JUUUUUST in range because of a bump? Cant, so i dont take'm.

I have much more fun doing whacked-out crap that isnt auto-lose bad than playing curbstomp tactics. Theres a reason i play heavily in-your-face aggressive Tau instead of Gunline Tau for 40k lol.

You can play to be competitive or just for fun.

One observation about the OP's list - they're low agility ships with minimal damage mitigation (dice manipulation) that have an emphasis on jousting and getting off an alpha strike. Over time you're rolls will even out, but during that time good/bad rolls will *seem* to spike. The OP experienced both good runs (prior to competition) and bad (during).

You're putting your fate in the hands of dice rolls, rather than using a broader tool box.

The Z-95 has 2 green

The B-wing has 1 green

The Y-Wing has 1 green.

I fly Imperial mostly, and if I faced such a list I'd be very, very happy.

Minimal ability to mitigate my damage, while my Interceptor, Tie Adv. Prot etc. will just dance around them at R2 and R3. Heck, Soontir can fire off and R3 and expect to have consistent hits over time.

In the current meta you're list and how you fly may need to change.

If you play competitively, don't rely on the random chance of dice rolls to win - build a list that increases efficiency and damage mitigation. The OP's list is solid for casual play, but in the current meta can be easily beaten.

Personally i dont like the highly competitive scene in any game. Not because i cant do it, but because i have no fun running the "best" lists and curbstomping people. No challenge, no fun.

That's certainly not an accurate assessment of X-Wing's competitive scene.

Personally i dont like the highly competitive scene in any game. Not because i cant do it, but because i have no fun running the "best" lists and curbstomping people. No challenge, no fun.

That's certainly not an accurate assessment of X-Wing's competitive scene.

Also an interesting reckoning. If you both takes OP builds who curb stomps who?

Though granted. There are a lot less choices for builds.

There is a reason Euro Gamers hate Ameritrash

Given the popularity of Warhammer in Europe, I don't think Europeans hate dice.

Euro Gamers =/= Europeans

Naturally, however since we're talking about gamers, and warhammer is a game, and the ETC is one of the worlds biggest gaming organisations, I think we can dispense with the semantics in this instance.

It's not a semantic difference, he's talking about "Eurogames" in the sense of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurogame

"Such games emphasize strategy, downplay luck and conflict, lean towards economic rather than military themes, and usually keep all the players in the game until it ends."

In my fifth game at this weekend's Milton Keynes regional:

Six attacks on my fully tokened-up Omega Leader and Inquisitor.

18 green dice.

15 blanks.

That ****'ll end your game real fast.

What I'm not telling you:

My opponent completely outflew me and put me in a spot where I had to rely on green dice to save me from his FO swarm's attacks. In my second game Omega Leader rolled a natural hit-crit then Soontir blanked out with 5 dice and got one-shotted. The game after that, Omega Leader one-shotted Soontir AGAIN, and a few turns later Wampa rolled a natural crit on 2 dice then the shuttle's attack punched the last 3 damage through to take out his undamaged Inquisitor in one round of shooting. Following that, my opponent put Chewie on a rock by like half a millimetre then drew a Blinded Pilot crit at exactly the wrong time, which kept my entire list on the board so I had enough firepower to hunt down Kanan then turn round and grind Chewie down. In my last game my Inquisitor was triple-stressed and shieldless and had to tank 8 3-dice attacks with only the Emperor (and later Autothrusters) to help him and came through it totally unscathed to net me a narrow win.

"In "Confessions of a Winning Poker Player," Jack King said, "Few players recall big pots they have won, strange as it seems, but every player can remember with remarkable accuracy the outstanding tough beats of his career." It seems true to me, cause walking in here, I can hardly remember how I built my bankroll, but I can't stop thinking of how I lost it."

I think the worst one I've seen so far was the epic game I was watching yesterday.

The rebels got a tough time of it from cluster missile/glitterstim/guidance chip Black Sun soldiers and aces. The scum landed 48 hits off 54 dice rolled - nasty but I guess not in any way impossible when you consider the dice modifiers those two cards rack up.

The X-wings being shot at managed in response to roll 4 evades. Total. Including spending focus tokens.

It's not a semantic difference, he's talking about "Eurogames" in the sense of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurogame

"Such games emphasize strategy, downplay luck and conflict, lean towards economic rather than military themes, and usually keep all the players in the game until it ends."

Huh, TIL.

The competitive scene has more variety in worthwhile lists than I've ever seen since I started playing x-wing. The sheer number of different options is great.

And personally, I find the community, even among the most intensely competitive players, to be so much more friendly than any other game I've played. I love it.

That said, I get it's not for everyone. Play it in a way that you enjoy. There's no point if it's not fun for you.

Just like to raise something about a point I read in this very interesting thread. Someone (sorry for not going back to check who) said something like "my opponents always comment on my bad dice luck". As a long time gamer of multiple systems I had to smile. That's a comment I will use (in a competitive tournament environment) to both re-enforce an opponents feeling that there is nothing they can do to win this game because 'luck' has deserted them and to stop them properly thinking about the game at hand. If my opponent believes they are going to lose then they probably will. If they believe they are doing everything right and the 'dice just hate them' they will continue to make the same mistakes without bothering to try and work out what they are.

To borrow a quote from Captain Jack Sparrow: The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem.

If you let bad dice results creep into your head it will negatively affect your game. If you are the competitive sort this will result in losses that might not have been losses. If you are the casual sort this will result in a lack of enjoyment of the game and that is the reason for playing it.

I'd urge everyone to not get hung up on 'bad dice'. They roll what they roll, all you can ever do is put yourself in the best position possible. I never used to understand this and would mentally if not physically 'give up' when the random part of a game conspired to undo my careful planning. Since I've managed to not let it bother me I've won a lot of games that were supposedly 'lost' by just hanging in there for the chance that my opponent suffers the same problem and I can capitalize on it if it happens.

I have to say that I've enjoyed more of my games since I denounced tournament play. If I happen to have bad dice or a bad game, it's really not a big deal. I'm not stressing over my list and trying to fine tweak it. I'm not obsessing how will it fly against meta list #4. I'm not forcing myself to play games against hard tournament lists all the time to fine tune it. I'm having a lot more fun with it. It's just a lot less stressful.

OK...I know some people like that and I used to like it. At some point, though, it became more of a chore. I do like getting into something and making it work, but I guess I don't like the pressure that I have to do it all the time. I've been playing Mission 1 with Senator's shuttle and I've been trying to figure out how to crack it. I've gotten into list building and how to fly it and all sorts of stuff, but the pressure hasn't been there. If it ever got tiring, I can just fly whatever and enjoy.

If you are at the point that the dice variance is ruining your fun...since you aren't doing well at the tournament, maybe it's time to step back and play the game for fun.

Just like to raise something about a point I read in this very interesting thread. Someone (sorry for not going back to check who) said something like "my opponents always comment on my bad dice luck". As a long time gamer of multiple systems I had to smile. That's a comment I will use (in a competitive tournament environment) to both re-enforce an opponents feeling that there is nothing they can do to win this game because 'luck' has deserted them and to stop them properly thinking about the game at hand. If my opponent believes they are going to lose then they probably will. If they believe they are doing everything right and the 'dice just hate them' they will continue to make the same mistakes without bothering to try and work out what they are.

To borrow a quote from Captain Jack Sparrow: The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem.

If you let bad dice results creep into your head it will negatively affect your game. If you are the competitive sort this will result in losses that might not have been losses. If you are the casual sort this will result in a lack of enjoyment of the game and that is the reason for playing it.

I'd urge everyone to not get hung up on 'bad dice'. They roll what they roll, all you can ever do is put yourself in the best position possible. I never used to understand this and would mentally if not physically 'give up' when the random part of a game conspired to undo my careful planning. Since I've managed to not let it bother me I've won a lot of games that were supposedly 'lost' by just hanging in there for the chance that my opponent suffers the same problem and I can capitalize on it if it happens.

I would also argue that the dice are a mechanic meant to force you to change tactics. You can't walk in to X-Wing with a prefabricated plan because the dice may make break that plan. Your job as a player is to A) mitigate the effect dice can have against you, B) maximize the effect dice can have against your opponent, and C) put yourself in a position to change tactics when your dice fail you. If you go all-in on each and every roll, you're dooming yourself to failure.

problem is x-wing isn't a complex enough game where you can really change your plans based on dice

it isn't like warmachine with its duo victory conditions of assassinating a key piece or controlling scenario objectives, it's just deathmatch all the time (competitively) which doesn't really allow you to shift your playstyle on the fly

you can make small tactical adjustments (like not bothering with super ace dejour when they luck out with perfect evades on an attack and get to keep all their mods for the next), but if the dice drop you, especially when you're in the superior position (such as range 1 with arc on an actionless ace) then you're just sorta boned

You can play to be competitive or just for fun.