Okay, we all agree that 'infinite backpacks' is just silly, although the peculiar way the game works (by adding to your capacity without weighing anything itself) means that a character can carry lots of storage items at once.

One of my players asked me how many different storage items one character can have. I assumed it would be common sense, but as these things are common to find and inexpensive, it all adds up quickly.

Thus far, we have the following items that add to your carrying capacity:

Backpack - 4

Utility Belt - 1

'Wizard pouch' - 1

Load-bearing gear - 3

Surveyor's bag - 2

Spacer's duffel - 3 to 5

Modular backpack - 3 to 6

Military pack - 6

Now, common-sense would dictate that you can't seriously wear more than one backpack, but what about the other stuff? Has there ever been an 'official' ruling on this? Yes, it seems ridiculous to have an official rule for something that should be so common-sense, but assuming you can only have one backpack and one each of the rest of things, any character could easily add +18 to their carrying capacity for a few hundred credits.

And yet it strikes me that someone with a backpack, belt pouches, military webbing and a duffel bag - all loaded to capacity - would be pretty **** encumbered, realistically. I can barely carry the core books around with me, but even the big guys in my group would struggle with that lot.

I like the way they do encumbrance in the game, because in the movies we don't see the characters carting around a dozen guns and changes of armour like some videogame. It feels right that you're supposed to leave your heavy or spare gear on the ship or at base or whatever. But by allowing almost 'one of everything' you're essentially doing away with encumbrance rules, like a D&D 'Bag of Holding', which is an item GMs give out when they don't want to be bothered with the encumbrance rules but don't want the PCs to look like Nodwick either.

So how much does everyone actually allow? Without it actually seeming ridiculous... I know some of these items have 'Cumbersome' but even so, they seem to add up to a lot, especially considering what total pack-rats most players are.

Thoughts? Or am I overcomplicating things as I sit here with my Sunday morning hangover?

cool looking.

Now, common-sense would dictate that you can't seriously wear more than one backpack...

You don't really live near a tourist area, do you? The most I've seen is five. The fifth may or may have not been a tent.

You can carry all that, yes, but that's pretty much the definition of 'encumbered'.

Characters are not leaping around and running with that kind of load... which the game has rules for. In real life, packing stuff carefully makes it easier to bear, but it's not actually lighter.

I'm just interested what other people allow.

There's also the A/KT Tracker Utility Vest from Enter the Unknown, which increases encumbrance threshold by 2. Thematically similar to the Load-Bearing Gear, but treated as a piece of armor, complete with a hard point.

People confused what you could carry with what would actually help. My opinion, belt, harness, and pack. Anything more is just getting in the way of each other.

The Spacer's Duffel and Surveyor's bag are properly luggage and can be carried, but not allow easy access.

If a player wanted to wear more then 1 back pack, they would need to carry it in their hand(s) and have to drop it to fight

Again, you're confusing what encumbered means. You can carry it, but you're like a newborn deer walking. The rules speak the awful words common sense, but there just isn't any other way to address it.

Could a PC carry all that? Well, sure. Are they going to have a blaster handy when trouble shows up? Oh hell no. And how about Stealth, Athletics, Coordination checks? Heck, I could find a reason to add Setback to just about any check wherein someone is geared up in that way. Man, just trying to get my wife & my luggage up the stairs into a cottage is a hassle when there's 4 bags, much less 3 backpacks, a duffel, and a bunch of load-bearing gear that hampers agility. If a PC is carrying that much stuff, that's pretty much all they're doing.

To reflect that, I'd impose a Setback die for every additional "infinite backpack" a character carries - even to social rolls, because the PC looks like a buffoon in almost every setting.

I'd allow:

Utility Belt - 1

Load-bearing gear - 3

Pick One:

-Backpack - 4

-Modular backpack - 3 to 6

-Military pack - 6

Pick One Carried in Hand:

Surveyor's bag - 2

Spacer's duffel - 3 to 5

I'd also allow the A/KT Vest on top of it.

The character would look like Nodwick, but it's not all -that- difficult to manage a load that way. Would things be easy to access? No. Would there be a setback on agility-based checks? Probably 2 or 3 (depending upon how close they came to their threshold -- merely having the capacity to carry stuff isn't, in itself, encumbering).

Ultimately it just depends on what the GM will allow, with a big part of it being what he/she considers compatible.

Can you use both a belt and load bearing gear, or are they the same, a belt to atrach stuff too, just one has suspenders so can comfortably handle more? Or the vest and gear?

How does the spacers duffel (a big bag thrown over the shoulder) work with the big honking frame pack of the military pack? Do they work? Do they not? Do you allow then to stay unencumbered but apply setbacks for all the bulk?

What about more situational issues? If you go in to negotiate with a hutt crimelord, or senator, and look like you're carrying everything you own, what happens?

I do think part of the problem is people thinking about encumbrance in terms like Fallout or Skyrim, where you're fine, and pick a flower and suddenly can't move. Which it's not. Over encumbrance isn't that big a deal, and if you're smart all you need do is define what's carried where. Keep your combat critical personal items on your person, all your other gear in a duffel, and dump the duffel when the shooting starts.

http://cmsimg.marinecorpstimes.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=M6&Date=20080122&Category=NEWS&ArtNo=801220310&Ref=AR&MaxW=640&Border=0&Downside-full-combat-load-examined

Been there. Done that.

I do think part of the problem is people thinking about encumbrance in terms like Fallout or Skyrim, where you're fine, and pick a flower and suddenly can't move.

Fallout 3 always amuses me. I can carry so much gear, until I get encumbered, when I move at crawling pace. Fine. BUT at that point I have no upper limit. I can literally carry an infinite amount of stuff, and I won't get any slower or grind to a halt!

The character would look like Nodwick, but it's not all -that- difficult to manage a load that way. Would things be easy to access? No. Would there be a setback on agility-based checks? Probably 2 or 3 (depending upon how close they came to their threshold -- merely having the capacity to carry stuff isn't, in itself, encumbering).

Yeah, but at that point it just seems easier to say 'hey guys, I'm ignoring the encumbrance rules as long as you don't try to carry 50-odd stormtrooper armours'.

I suppose anyone who insists on carrying 'one of everything' is asking for setback dice, whether they are 'encumbered' or not. Common sense = Rule Zero, I guess.

http://cmsimg.marinecorpstimes.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=M6&Date=20080122&Category=NEWS&ArtNo=801220310&Ref=AR&MaxW=640&Border=0&Downside-full-combat-load-examined

Been there. Done that.

Respect, then, as I'm 100 lbs and feel exhausted toting the core book around.

BUT, would you want to go into battle with all that stuff? Especially the cinematic kind of battles we see in Star Wars, Indiana Jones, etc where everyone is jumping and leaping around?

The issue isn't that this stuff can't be carried... but that the game treats you as wearing the same as an Olympic gymnast while carrying it.

This is where common sense comes into play and the RAW break down. Just adding items that add Encumbrance capacity begins to fly in the face of what encumbrance means. There have been suggestions about wearing 2 packs, one on your back, one on your chest, bags in your hands, etc. Can you do those things, sure, but the bottom line is while that is permissible per RAW actually results in being encumbered in reality. It's not just about what you carry, it's about how well, or can you at all, function carrying the load.

Yep. It's because the rules treat backpacks and storage as 'magical bags of holding'. Anything in a portable storage becomes - to all intents and purposes, for you - weightless. Although in real life, it wouldn't work like that, and a fully stuffed backpack, while easier to carry than loose stuff, is still pretty heavy and prevents you from jumping around much.

I guess 'realistically' all this extra storage should allow you to physically carry more stuff, but it shouldn't prevent you being actually encumbered ... But without it, you'd be limited to your base capacity because there's literally nowhere to physically stack your dozen guns and loose gear.

We used to have a mule character, our Wookiee had a one of each encumbrance adding gear, some of them Re-skined to be logical (in the case of backpacks), and when we got into a battle, he would spend a maneuver to drop some of them, although he was not encumbered.

You could harrass the player with black dices for unstable underground or something like that. It is indeed no problem for a trained individual to walk for hours with load bearing gear, a big military backbag and perhaps even a utility vest, So 10 more points of encumberance would be no restriction in most circumstances. But if you have to balance on a narrow catwalk, climb a wall or absail down a rope or any other check involving athletics or coordination would be a perfect situation to add tons of setback dices. And there is always the social (roleplay) component. If you are packed like a mule, especially using military gear like harnesses or a bergan would rise lots of attention. There is no need to carry military grade weapons and armor for a security officer to ask questions and become noticed by the officials.

http://cmsimg.marinecorpstimes.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=M6&Date=20080122&Category=NEWS&ArtNo=801220310&Ref=AR&MaxW=640&Border=0&Downside-full-combat-load-examined

Been there. Done that.

Respect, then, as I'm 100 lbs and feel exhausted toting the core book around.

BUT, would you want to go into battle with all that stuff? Especially the cinematic kind of battles we see in Star Wars, Indiana Jones, etc where everyone is jumping and leaping around?

The issue isn't that this stuff can't be carried... but that the game treats you as wearing the same as an Olympic gymnast while carrying it.

A combat load is lighter, a bit. Unless you are the corpsman or the poor schlub hauling the radio. My combat load was about 80lbs I think.

Two people have mentioned the surveyor's bag. I'm not sure why it would be considered luggage or be carried in hand. It's basically the Indiana Jones man purse worn as a satchel from one shoulder across the body.

I do think part of the problem is people thinking about encumbrance in terms like Fallout or Skyrim, where you're fine, and pick a flower and suddenly can't move.

Fallout 3 always amuses me. I can carry so much gear, until I get encumbered, when I move at crawling pace. Fine. BUT at that point I have no upper limit. I can literally carry an infinite amount of stuff, and I won't get any slower or grind to a halt!

The character would look like Nodwick, but it's not all -that- difficult to manage a load that way. Would things be easy to access? No. Would there be a setback on agility-based checks? Probably 2 or 3 (depending upon how close they came to their threshold -- merely having the capacity to carry stuff isn't, in itself, encumbering).

Yeah, but at that point it just seems easier to say 'hey guys, I'm ignoring the encumbrance rules as long as you don't try to carry 50-odd stormtrooper armours'.

I suppose anyone who insists on carrying 'one of everything' is asking for setback dice, whether they are 'encumbered' or not. Common sense = Rule Zero, I guess.

http://cmsimg.marinecorpstimes.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=M6&Date=20080122&Category=NEWS&ArtNo=801220310&Ref=AR&MaxW=640&Border=0&Downside-full-combat-load-examined

Been there. Done that.

I see everything but the Wizard's pouch. Perhaps I'm not thinking about this correctly.

en·cumber

inˈkəmbər,enˈkəmbər/

verb

past tense: encumbered ; past participle: encumbered

1. restrict or burden (someone or something) in such a way that free action or movement is difficult.

This is where common sense comes into play and the RAW break down. Just adding items that add Encumbrance capacity begins to fly in the face of what encumbrance means. There have been suggestions about wearing 2 packs, one on your back, one on your chest, bags in your hands, etc. Can you do those things, sure, but the bottom line is while that is permissible per RAW actually results in being encumbered in reality. It's not just about what you carry, it's about how well, or can you at all, function carrying the load.

Can you clap? Pick you nose? Actually see a handgun in your hands to clear a malfunction? Do a push up? Use a key to open a lock? If the answer is no because you've got something in your hands, or in the way of being able to see what's in your hands or do something with your hands, then you're encumbered.

Again, it involves common sense, and I know there were persons here who posted that felt like the devs telling us to rely on common sense was akin to stranding blind orphans on an iceberg in the North Atlantic at night, but in the end you have no real choice as a GM and the book tells a GM to adjudicate and make rulings using common sense as a guide.

Utility belt with heavy tools worth 4-6 points, load-bearing gear loaded with stuff worth about 2 encumbrance points, I admit, I had no backpack when some idiot run the 3m+ ladder away. It was still no problem to properly land. And I am sure that with a properly worn backpack I could use pushed another 10 encumbrance (basically 5 ipads) into a backpack and still had no trouble with it.

Normal military backpacks can be a lot above what even wookiees are allowed to carry. If you want to go for less abstraction and more simulation feel free to give setback dice on especially mobile or acrobat actions or just add repulsor technology to those backpacks. Star Wars uses limited anti-grave tech in even mundane things like couch cushion (The Truce at Bakura ), so feel free to make those backpacks a little more fantastic. ;-)

Besides keep in mind that you are using very light backpacks for the most part, it not like those 25kg field kit backpacks which use in your military training. we are talking here about those 10kg backpacks which you have to use for your 30km tour in 5 hours or less.

And the game treats you as well as fit and fast has Bolt and strong as Chewie. If your group does not like it, just hand out setback dice earlier. Though I am not sure if you are supposed to keep that backpack on your back anyway, a round is enough time to just drop it and pick it up after combat anyway.

I would probably say anyone trying to have more than a backpack, utility belt and a surveyor's bag (which is really just a satchel like Indiana Jones wore/carried). You could carry a spacer's duffel, but that has to get dropped if you need to do something with your hands.

The old Ghostbusters RPG had a system I really liked (and subsequently adapted to D6 Star Wars). Lets say that a Heavy Blaster Pistol has an encumbrance of 1 Hands and 1 Strength:

Hands:
Basically, anything that can be put into a pocket and never thought of again, and that is small enough to be manipulated by one hand counts as 0 Hands of space.

Example: A cigarette lighter.

An object that is large enough to be noticed and cant be fit into a pocket, but doesn't require more than one hand to wield, counts as one Hand of space.
Example: A flashlight.

An object that can be carried in one hand but requires two hands to operate effectively is with 1 1/2 Hands of space.
Example: a baseball bat.

An object that requires two hands to even carry is a two Hand item.
Example: a Medium Repeating Blaster.

Larger items (such as refrigerators) should be restricted according to your common sense. Remember we're not talking weight; here we're also talking pure bulk, too. A large box kite may only weight next to nothing, but still takes up two Hands worth of space.

Allocating the equipment and the limits imposed is as follows: a character has room for one Hand worth of stuff on his head (when outfitted properly, like a miner's helmet), two Hands on his back (with straps like a parachute), two spaces for one Hand items on his belt (like a sword, glowrod and comlink), and two spaces for one Hand items at the end of his arms (Otherwise known as "The Hands"). Of course, a character's body is just littered with places to carry things - far more than we've detailed here. A policeman, for example, could easily carry five hands worth of items on his belt. These however are reasonable limits. If one of your players wants to carry more and can justify it (like a character that always wears jumpsuits with deep pockets and so on), then use your judgement.

We now have set a limit of stuff based on pure bulk. But is it fair to say that carrying seven Hands worth of marshmallow counts as the same as seven Hands worth of gold bars? Hardly! So now we move onto phase two - the Strength attribute.

Strength:

The more stuff a character carries around, the harder it is for them to do things. However stronger people can carry more than weaker people, so use the Strength attribute or Lifting skill to see just how much can be carried.

As above, things that are small and insignificant and weigh less than a few pounds or five count as 1/2 Strength in weight. You can stick a whole bunch of lighters in your pocket and never feel a thing. For something light and unobtrusive, the GM may rule a weight of zero (see Infinite Hands)

Heavy items count as one Strength point. This includes anything that is not too heavy to be carried comfortably for long periods.
Example: a full day pack, a small portable TV.

Really heavy items, things you wouldn't think about carrying around for long periods of time, count as two Strength points.
Example: An R2 Unit, a large portable TV.

Bigger things like refrigerators, that can be moved but not really carried, can have any Strength number you like.

What does this all mean? A Character is limited in the bulk they can carry, but they are also limited in the weight they can carry. A Character can carry up to his Strength die code and never feel a thing. A Character can carry up to two times his die code, but will be effected: His DEXTERITY and PERCEPTION will be lowered by one D each (A character bent over huffing and puffing under the weight of a refrigerator is not going to move very fast or be prone to notice a whole helluva lot). A Character who carries 3 times his Strength die code - well, he can. He stands there, tugging and lifting and swearing. He can drag it, but not lift it. Attribute codes with pips get rounded to the nearest whole die. A strength of 3D+1 gets rounded to 3D while a strength of 3D+2 rounds to 4D. Simple, no?

Now, I'm not proposing to overhaul the encumbrance system for FFG, just that when applying common sense that both volume and weight need to be taken into consideration. You could probably find a way to carry a duffel, satchel, utility belt, backpack, Jacket With Many Pockets and a knife in your boot - but eventually you'd be hunched over huffing and puffing.

One last note about encumbrance: objects of opportunity! When a character picks up an object, he doesn't automatically have to take on it's full weight. For instance, a character snatches up a chair to smash over someone's head. He doesn't have to stop and recalculate the weight into the rest of his gear to see if their they have a penalty - it didn't. Only make characters recalculate their encumbrance when they'll be carrying it awhile. It's not difficult to see the difference between carrying a tray from one room to another and putting a rifle over your shoulder for a hike in the woods. The tray is only in hand momentary; the rifle is in your equipment.

Also, one other thing to be aware of is for characters who try and pick up something while their hands are already full. Beware of things like:

Ren: I'm calculating the distance and approach vector for the missile launch on my datapad.

GM: OK, make a Knowledge roll.

Ren: While I'm doing that, can I take some aspirin from the medpack?

GM: Um, ok - it's tricky, but you can do it. Oh-oh, one of the Imperials just threw a grenade and at you. It lands at your feet, ticking softly.

Ren: I pick it up and throw it back.

Ummm. Ok - like how? As GM, you must head off these problems, making sure that either the medpack or the pocket computer hits the ground while she tries to juggle three things in two hands.

It's an odd one.

There seems to have been a definite intention to Keep It Simple. Every character can carry Brawn + 5 weight worth of stuff, which a small pistol is 1 and a larger rifle 3 or 4. That's good, that makes sense; it means that characters look like they do in the SW movies, not a D&D adventurer.

But it all falls apart a bit when we consider storage, because the storage carrier AND the stuff inside it is essentially considered weightless when it comes to your encumbrance.

Add in the uncertainty as to how many different storage items you can have, and we have...

... well, this thread, I guess

Maybe I'm overthinking it. After all, a D&D adventurer usually has to carry whatever he owns around with him all the time. A Star Wars character will usually have a ship, probably a car/speeder, and quite probably a base of some sort. So survival stuff like camping gear can mostly be taken along on a case by case basis when needed. Likewise, a character won't be wandering a city with a thermal detonator and a disruptor rifle unless he wants to attract the attention of local law/stormtroopers/hired goons etc.