I'm Considering getting Descent: Journeys in the Dark, So, what makes Descent a good games, what are it's pro's and con's? Overall, what makes you folks keep coming back to play more?

Thanks

It's a fun tactical game with nice fantasy trappings and infinite variety.

I'll start with the cons because I always want to end on a positive note:

Cons

- It takes a really long time to play, especially when you're new to the game.

- There is very little in the way of "world lore". This is nothing like a roleplaying game. It's an "action" game and the "story" element is extremely light.

Pros

- It's different every time you play it

- It's got tons of gorgeous components and cool minis

- Playing as a hero or as the Overlord are both lots of fun in different ways

- If you like painting miniatures, this game will offer your lots!

- The combat is FFF (Fast, Furious and Fun)

- Even though the game takes a long time, fun stuff and surprises are happening the whole time

- It's got a cool "high fantasy" vibe

Note: all of this is just my opinion, of course.

Descent follows in the line of dungeon crawl games. If you enjoyed Heroquest, Warhammer Quest or the dungeons and Dragons Boardgame, you will enjoy Descent. There are balance issues, so be prepared to house-rule til you find a blanace that suits you and your players. Also this isn't an RPG - aside from the lack of role-playing options, the Overlord is more of an antagonist than a storyteller (though with careful skill you can play the game in this fashion)

If you approach Descent as some sort of "role-playing board game" you will find a large number of seemingly illogical rules (ie: the heroes can jump over pits but not over water.) This may well frustrate you if that's the type of game you want to play. Jake mentions lots of house rules and balance concerns, but it also sounds like this is the way he likes to play the game (ie: as an "RPG-lite".)

In my experience the game is actually very well balanced, but precariously so. As long as you play by the rules, as illogical as they may be, then things have a way of evening out. I suspect the reason so many people complain about imbalance is precisely because they make house rules to address the illogical aspects of the game and end up toppling the house of cards which is its balance. Each new expansion also has a way of mixing things up and giving one side an obvious advantage, but I've found that the other side comes back up once they learn how to deal with the new abilities they have and how to counter the new abilities of the first.

I don't like the illogical rules either, but I also don't have time to sit down and fix it myself (not properly) so I just work with what I have and I still have tons of fun. The stupid illogical situations provide fodder for me and my friends to laugh at the game, which also helps ease the tension when things get rough for one side or the other.

The advantages of the game, in my opinion are the large numbers of miniatures and shiny bits (FFG is well known for games with shiny bits.) The combat can be fast-paced and especially brutal (for a board game), which I enjoy. Figures hit hard and die fast (especially monsters), which is okay because it reduces the bookkeeping for hit points and lets you focus on the action. The epic scope of the adventure is also an appeal, although it does have the drawback that the game can take forever to play. The extended campaign expansions (Road to Legend and the new Sea of Blood) are in fact not designed to be played in a single sitting. They have a built in save-game mechanic so you can come back to the table several times over the course of a month or so (depending on how often you play.)

It's also a lot of money if you're the type who needs to own everything (like me.) =)

If you enjoyed the other games people have mentioned, you'll probably enjoy Descent too. A word of caution though: older games like HeroQuest were generally designed to let the heroes win most of the time. Descent is not. It is designed so that the Overlord has an equal chance of winning, and that means the game will be much harder on the heroes than others of the genre. At first the hero players might feel overwhelmed, but in time they will learn how to earn their victories, and those victories will be all the sweeter for the effort involved. As long as you can approach Descent as a competitive board game where everyone is bound by the rules as written, and not as some sort of RPG with a GM and some heroes who expect to win out in the end, then you should have a ball with this one. =)

Cons

- Takes a lot of time. Don't buy if you are a casual gamer.

- There is lots of inconsistency in game rules.

- ...and learning the rules takes lots of time.

- Game is badly balanced and full of useless items, heros, mechanics...

- Player characters don't compete against each other. Players who don't like to plan or make tactics usually end up just moving their figures when other players tell them to do so. Practically the game needs only 3 players: one is Overlord and two are moving heroes and planning together.

- You need Road to Legend -expansion to really enjoy the game.

- Many dungeons don't use their full potential. There are lots of parts and figures and skills and stuff you use very rarely.

Pros

- Lots of dice rolling.

- Lots of loot to obtain.

- Lots of monsters to kill.

- Lots of cards to play. Especially, Overlord.

One thing that nobody mentioned yet: it isn't balanced for 2-3 players, even though the rules are there for it. You really need at least 3 heroes to make it work, so someone might need to play two characters if your group is small.

Steve-O said:

I agree with this entirely. The competitive nature of the game is both it's blessing and curse. The heroes know when they win they earned it but on the other hand the heroes are going to lose a lot. Many hero mistakes simply can NOT be recovered from. Killing the first Giant before getting the chest let's say. You really need to avoid the temptation to start tossing house rules around after the 1st session. The big down side? RPG's have so influenced players that when they lose many will be angry and never play again.

A truly good jedi OL trick would be to throw the first couple of games. Giving the players a good feel of vctory. And when they lose for the first time just remmeber.

If you can not lose your victory means nothing.

If you do like board games and don't mind one that will take a long time to play then Descent is a fantastic game.

To me, the only real down side is the time it takes to learn it and teach it to friends. That is were the game is most at risk. Take the time to read the rules and play several test games so that you really understand it. Then when you're teaching it to your friends during their first play though it will go so much more smoothly.

But! Once you're past the learning phase you'll find a game that is amazingly cool and always fresh. If you look at the Descent web site and really like what you see know that's it's as rich and full as it looks. Read the online manual if you find you like how it sounds I'd be confent that you've sample enough to know.

Have you played any other FantasyFlightGames?

Templarion said:

I disagree completely. I think vanilla Descent is far more enjoyable AND it is well balanced. And there are very few useless items, only items which are better than others.

Yeah, I'd be curious to see what the "useless" items are. I can see some treachery cards that I'd probably never pick, but the items are pretty useful across the board. There are definitely some that are more useful (Word of Vaal, I'm looking at you). But actual uselessness is pretty rare.

But that's probably a topic for another thread.

Thanks everyone, I think I'll give it a spin. I have no problem with long games, and can hopefully get over the illogical bits. Once again I appreciate the time taken to explain to me Decent's aspects.

nachti said:

I concur. I've played Road to Legend a couple times now (never to completion.) It is enjoyable in its own way, but I think it's far too long. Playing RtL witht he wrong group of players might even make things worse, if the players are of the mindset that the heroes should win, since they might be going for a month or two before they lose in the gold campaign. That could lead to some harsh words if the players aren't all prepared for the possibility. The next time I pull out Descent I intend to suggest going back to Vanilla for a while. We have plenty of quests left unplayed there. I'm not saying RtL is bad - I think it's great fun - but it's hardly a necessity for enjoying Descent. As for balance, I've already spoken my piece about that above.

nachti said:

I would rate any shop weapon that throws a yellow die instead of a green as useless (no I am not counting using the fail as an off hand weapon). I think I would toss most copper treasures that throw yellow die with no green in the useless boat also. There could be some situation uses but usually they are few and far between.

Tell that to the melee characters who love reach, especially against overlords who love creatures with Ghost.

Though, I can see where the throwing knives are useless unless you're playing Road to Legend. At least in RtL they're a decent low-damage way of quickly waking up the other heroes if you're ambushed.

Certainly they are a small collection of Treachery cards tnat are superior to all others, and since the Overlord can choose Treachery cards, the remaining 90% of them are never used.

It's no secret that heroes with 3 dice in a single attribute are preferred over almost all other heroes. This is the one untouched oddity that always surprised me. They really needed to do something about the characters that don't have 3 dice in a single attribute. Sure, some of their special abilities make up for it, but most (90%+) do not.

James McMurray said:

This isn't D&D just because your OL likes ghost critters doesn't mean he gets more than anyone else. I still say the melee guy should have an ax and leave the ghosts to the ranged guys. If your melee guys can't kill stuff what good are they? If you KNOW you are going to see a bunch of ghost critter in some quest just pick another ranged guy instead. If you are doing random and you get stuck with 3 melee guys or something than that sucks. But you would most likely be better off just giving one of the melee guys a crossbow. To be honest with the removal of grapple from RTL I am not even sure 2 melee guys is the best party anymore.

Ambushes are few and far between, to carry a specific weapon just in case overlooks the opportunity cost of the backpack space. Let alone the fact that you can just punch your friend awake if you really need to. Not as effective but takes no backpack space up.

Steve-O said:

Guilty as charged. That doesn't mean that I don't win as an Overlord - I have won on plenty of occasions - but I do want an exciting game that goes down to the end of Level boss, rather than encouraging an arms race or a completely one-sided battle. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

RPG-Lite. Sort-of. For me the most important aspect of role playing game is the role playing and a pen-and paper RPG run by a half-way competent GM is always going to beat *any* board game for that. But Descent / RtL is a great way to get my players thinking along the right lines so that I can introduce them to, say, D&D or 7th Sea later.

There are parts of Descent which seem out of balance. Some of the skills and characters are clearly more powerful than others... which would you prefer Aurim with Parry or Lord Hawthorne with Knight .

Jake yet again said:

To be clear, I'm not criticising you for playing the game your own way. The purpose of any game, board, role playing or otherwise is to have fun. As long as you're having fun then you're not doing anything wrong. I was just trying to set the OP's expectations properly. It's been my experience both on these forums and in real life that people who approach Descent like some kind of RP board game end up disappointed, at least the first time. Some of them change their expectations for the second time, some of them change the game. Neither is wrong. I'm just trying to help the OP make an informed decision.

Jake yet again said:

I suppose this is a matter of opinion. I agree that some heroes and some skills are clearly better than others, but I don't consider that an imbalance. The random nature of hero and skill generation is an intentional part of the game. Would it have been better if all were roughly the same? Yes, probably. But randomization as a game mechanic has little value if it also has little risk. I don't claim that Descent is perfect, but I've never felt that the game was broken as a result of someone getting a poor hero draw or skill draw. Usually one person will get a bad draw, one will get a good draw and the other two will fall somewhere in between. End result is an average party to face off against the OL. Balanced, IMHO.