After a second look, I'm wondering if I can get away with just Leia on a GR-75 as a backup and forgo wing commanders.

I'd be worried about it still hurting your activation order.

No doubt, but the 12 points I'm currently looking at for wing commanders is pretty cost prohibitive. 3 points as a back stop is more palatable, even if it's still a risk.

One other thought is to consider if the Slicer tools force a different kind of maneuvering, in lieu of simply taking a direct counter on one or more ships. They require a pretty close range. So it is entirely possible you can just move away, or for that matter, dinging the Flotilla with some squadrons might work. They'll only be able to scatter a couple of shots, and from there, 4 hits is a pretty quick kill.

After a second look, I'm wondering if I can get away with just Leia on a GR-75 as a backup and forgo wing commanders.

Yup, I may take a GR75 Leia.

Right now they are the new toy and people will take them just to see what happens.

For what I can tell there is a tipping point where you'll have too many and not enough hard hitters.

Yea. I am not sure yet for DtO if 2 Flotilla's will replace a CR90. Maybe for some hijinks against Demolisher or other ships but then again. . . Maybe not.

I played Harpoon on the PC many years ago, and the general strategy was to have your small ships working on missile and aircraft detection, then within the core of the fleet you had your missile defense and "targets". So I see flotillas as a form of early threat detection and engagement of those threats, so the idea of having a CR80 as a carrier, flanked on each side by say a Nebulon or CR90, that are in turn flanked by 1-2 Flotillas and they in turn drive a few squadrons. For me this is perfect as the basic concept of Star Wars combat was that it "borrowed" from WW2 movies that Lucas enjoyed, thus we have a semi-historical feel to things.

~80 points on Squadrons

~100 points on Flotillas

~100 points on Corvette/Frigates

~120 points on a Battleship or Carrier

Will this or another fleet archetype result those lists with last/first activation seeing a decline in function?

A little, you activate the Slicer Tools, and change the ship going last to as useless a command as possible. This ship now moves without the benefit of Engine Techs, activates and takes it turn as last activation. So it ends up in a slightly less perfect position. It then activates again, as the first activation, and does what it does with the Navigation Command that was on its other dial. At this point the Tractor Beam activates and slows it down, but it has moved beyond the range of the first ships Slicing Tools. And I am not too sure you could convince me that the Flotilla we have seen so far is able to maneuver to have a second turn of Slicing Tools.

Tactically Slicing Tools works better when it can affect Demolisher after it has tripple tapped as you can apply Slicing Tools and Tractor Beams and almost get it locked down from that point on.

Mind you 4 Flotillas, and a variety of Upgrade Commands will I think be a nice staple that shakes up a meta and makes us rethink what is done and what we'll do. Say 2 with Slicing Tools and 2 with Bomber Command Centers, looks interesting at the moment.

On another note: Do you think we will see ships (non-flotillas) with the Fleet Support icon at some point? I'd love to see that in the future, as I see it as a way to keep increasing the variability, though it definitely needs to avoid power creep.

I hope not unless its another very fragile ship. These damned things are actually very powerful. Slicer and bomber command are amazing.

The price you pay is the gamble. Gambling your opponent doesn't get an accuracy or doesn't have H-9s or Home One.

I expect them to see a fair bit of use, though I think that has as much to do with the flotilla-only upgrades (Slicer, Bomber Command Center, etc.) as the flotillas themselves (low cost, activation advantage, cheap squadron pushers, etc.). If you run a Rhymer Ball already, for example, there's little reason not to spend 31 points to have an extra ship activation and rerolls on your bombers--even if it means cutting down on upgrades you would otherwise take, chances are another ship activation combined with the buff to bomber damage will be at least as valuable, if not more valuable. I personally like the Raymus/Tantive combo (despite concerns about point/activation inefficiency), but a Gonzati with Comms Net can basically replicate that token-passing ability for half the points (49 for a Raymus/Tantive CR-90B, vs. 25 for a Gonzati I + Comms Net, potentially less for the Rebels with their flotilla variant). Slicer Tools is a new aspect to the game that doesn't replace any preexisting skills that I am aware of, but seems like it has tremendous disruptive potential. Since only flotillas can sport these upgrades, I expect their use to remain high, unless for some reason these promising upgrades turn out to be duds on the table.

I'm thinking Bossk is going to see more use. Once he takes 1 damage he will be a little bastard against flotillas. 2 dice with a decent hit chance plus a guaranteed accuracy against a ship that can take 4 hits is a mighty good return on a squadron.

So, since we have all this new information on flotillas and we are (rightly so) going bonkers over the new fleet support cards; does this mean that we will see at least one flotilla in 95% of fleets? I'm going with 95% since its a statistical thing. I love the flotillas as much as all of you, and am super hyped to see them added to the game, but are they really going to be so good that we see them in almost every fleet? If so, I pose the question "are they truly balanced?"

I think your reaction is alarmist in this case. 95% is an extremely high target. Not even 95% of Imperial fleets run Demolisher and it's currently the only upgrade card I can think of that a majority within the community would support errataing.

I expect a lot of people running flotillas early on in wave 3 just to play with the new toys. After that it will likely taper off to fleets where they're appropriate.

In any game, something that is included nearly every time is almost always considered "overpowered." I'm not saying the flotillas themselves are overpowered, but I for one don't want to see them all the time. Just like there are ships you don't include in every list, I don't want flotillas in every list. Cheap activations are at a premium right now, and these upgrades also seem incredibly potent. So what are your thoughts on this? How do you expect see the fleet building aspect of the game change?

Cheap activations are a thing right now but unless your flotillas meaningfully assist your fleet, they're wasted points on an empty activation. Unlike CR90s or Raiders, flotillas don't intrinsically punch that hard. The best we have so far are the Assault Carrier Gozantis, which are 28 points for a red dice in the front arc (which can get fun when combined with Concentrate Fire and Opening Salvo or Most Wanted). That by itself isn't a huge combat contribution.

If you're running one or two "serious" combat ships aided by 3-4 flotillas just there for activations, it doesn't take too much effort for an enemy fleet devoted towards combat vessels to either pick apart your "cheerleader" flotillas or ignore them in favor of beating down the combat vessels instead.

I personally think we will see nearly every fleet contain them once they release, and slowly players will build to counter them (H-9s, Home One, etc.). This might cause their popularity to drop, but to be honest, I can't think of a single squadron list I would play without one or two of these guys. I'm not trying to overreact or be a doomspeaker/"game is dying" type of guy, I'm just wondering what this means for the game as it grows.

I agree with you insomuch as Accuracy-finding upgrades (especially on ships without blue dice) should see an improvement in their stock once flotillas enter the game. Seeing Home One over Defiance or H9 Turbolasers over XI7s or even Sensor Teams (...let's not get too hopeful here) would be a welcome change of pace at the very least.

I think you are correct that squadron-heavy lists in particular are going to want flotillas the most. Squadron-heavy lists currently struggle to get a decent number of activations, they're prone to getting tabled if they're not careful, and many of their heavier ships don't want to issue Squadron commands consistently due to being mixed role carrier-battleships. Flotillas provide another activation for a discount price, require at least one dedicated close-to-medium-range attack (or a number of good long-ranged shots) to destroy, and seem to be happy to issue Squadron commands pretty much consistently if you need them to.

I still expect to see earlier carrier ships in squadron-heavy fleets due to at least one of the following reasons:

• Ship-specific titles (like Independence or Yavaris) that provide specific benefits to using that ship to command squadrons
• Flight Controllers literally cannot be taken on flotillas (unless the GR75s get a Weapon Team slot, which I am doubtful of)
• It can occasionally be very beneficial to issue a large squadron command all in one activation, such as when trying to get a strong alpha strike in with TIEs or chasing down a fleeting ship with numerous bombers

So I'm expecting squadron-heavier fleets to likely have a centerpiece premier carrier (like Independence or Yavaris) supported by a number of flotillas and then 1-2 other combat vessels. Bomber Command in particular is just too good to not use in a squadron-heavier fleet.

On another note: Do you think we will see ships (non-flotillas) with the Fleet Support icon at some point? I'd love to see that in the future, as I see it as a way to keep increasing the variability, though it definitely needs to avoid power creep.

I could see fleet support in very specific circumstances, most likely with a title. Or on heavier ships that don't focus on firepower (example: Interdictor cruisers, fleet carrier ships, etc.). The main restriction I think is Slicer Tools is potentially extremely dangerous to keep firing off every turn and so you'd need to be extremely careful about what you allowed to use it. Currently its main downside is it's an expensive upgrade for a cheap ship that becomes extremely fragile once it gets into range to use the Slicer Tools. Allowing something like a VSD to equip Slicer Tools could get ugly (by, say, producing an Offensive Retrofit slot card that gave the equipped ship a Fleet Support slot).

My own prediction is flotillas will be seen a lot in fleets with bombers in particular. Bomber Command Center is a great upgrade by itself and flotillas offer very cost-effective and flexible Squadron commands. Single-dice bombers (TIE Bombers, Y-Wings) are currently not in vogue because they're squadron command intensive but flotillas offer both the Squadrons muscle to boss them around and the Bomber Command Center which is applied most cost-effectively to our cheap single-dice bomber buddies.

I have already redesigned my go-to tourney list with a gozanti instead of a raider. I almost never got value from the raider, conversley for a few points less the gozanti will supercharge my bombers. I wont get any additional activations but the bomber synergy alone will pay massive dividends over the raider in the build

Once the GR-75 preview is released, I believe those managing the vassal armada game will include both tortillas in hence allowing us to have a headstart/"beta-test" it. So I encourage everyone reading and posting here to get online and play them online games, and we will then have some battle reports to show how important they are, and whether tortilla-less lists still do well

Today I rolled a hit-crit with Rhymer...then the rest of the Bombers rolled all blanks. I'm bringing Bomber Command first chance I get.

You could easily test it by using small ship bases without the ships as well.

FLOATING YOUR WAY... SOON!

Today I rolled a hit-crit with Rhymer...then the rest of the Bombers rolled all blanks. I'm bringing Bomber Command first chance I get.

So you are saying your opponent would have received zero damage if they had equipped Cluster bombs?

....

One of the reasons you will see them in most fleets is that they are cheap, therefore easy to throw in at the end. I think there is always a bias towards more fleets containing a cheap ship or cheap squadrons because when you build a fleet, it's what you can fit in the "remainder" portion.

So to that end, I don't know that seeing a lot of them is bad. It might just mean they don't cost a lot of points. We'll probably see less raiders and corvettes as a result, because often that is the reason they are being taken (because, literally, they can, where other things cannot because they are more expensive).