So, since we have all this new information on flotillas and we are (rightly so) going bonkers over the new fleet support cards; does this mean that we will see at least one flotilla in 95% of fleets? I'm going with 95% since its a statistical thing. I love the flotillas as much as all of you, and am super hyped to see them added to the game, but are they really going to be so good that we see them in almost every fleet? If so, I pose the question "are they truly balanced?"

In any game, something that is included nearly every time is almost always considered "overpowered." I'm not saying the flotillas themselves are overpowered, but I for one don't want to see them all the time. Just like there are ships you don't include in every list, I don't want flotillas in every list. Cheap activations are at a premium right now, and these upgrades also seem incredibly potent. So what are your thoughts on this? How do you expect see the fleet building aspect of the game change?

I personally think we will see nearly every fleet contain them once they release, and slowly players will build to counter them (H-9s, Home One, etc.). This might cause their popularity to drop, but to be honest, I can't think of a single squadron list I would play without one or two of these guys. I'm not trying to overreact or be a doomspeaker/"game is dying" type of guy, I'm just wondering what this means for the game as it grows.

On another note: Do you think we will see ships (non-flotillas) with the Fleet Support icon at some point? I'd love to see that in the future, as I see it as a way to keep increasing the variability, though it definitely needs to avoid power creep.

I think that this boosts activation counts and could take the game to a dark place given the current hard-on for that sort of stuff. Given that, I'm excited but still underwhelmed.

Maybe I just feel that support ships (especially in the effort to throw shields to other ships) falls flat.

Maybe I just feel that support ships (especially in the effort to throw shields to other ships) falls flat.

Certainly, but that's hardly the only thing a "Support Ship" can and should do.

I do think we'll see them in most fleets. Does that make them OP? Eh... Debatable, I suppose. I think they would be if their presence overshadowed the rest of the fleet ("are you taking a Comm Net fleet or a BCC fleet?"), but I don't really see that happening.

The thing is, I think the support upgrades are awesome, but I think you'll hit pretty steep diminishing returns on pretty much all of them after only one or two. So I really don't expect to see too many lists that are dominated by the flotilla. I just see them enhancing existing archetypes in new and interesting ways.

I think it will help a lot with the ridiculously aggressive underbidding we've been seeing. 40 points is the cheapest ship so yeah, that could be the most ridiculous bid. But now that we have a 23 point activation I think initiative bids will stabilize. Also, with more activation and things with scatter, we will be going to turn 6 even more than we already have been, which, to me, is a good thing. I also think they give a new lease on life to cards that only see limited use (H-9 Turbolasers, Wing Commander)

I do think we'll see them in most fleets. Does that make them OP? Eh... Debatable, I suppose. I think they would be if their presence overshadowed the rest of the fleet ("are you taking a Comm Net fleet or a BCC fleet?"), but I don't really see that happening.

The thing is, I think the support upgrades are awesome, but I think you'll hit pretty steep diminishing returns on pretty much all of them after only one or two. So I really don't expect to see too many lists that are dominated by the flotilla. I just see them enhancing existing archetypes in new and interesting ways.

OP really isn't the right meaning for what I was trying to ask/worried about. It's not that the flotillas will be overpowered, I like how they will enhance different archatipes, but I don't want fleet building to become stale. We already have ideas of certain upgrade we almost always take (like ECM on MC80s or ISDs. Gunnery Teams, etc.) While I know there are exceptions to those rules, as the game state is constantly changing (less ECMs now than right after wave 2 dropped). But I for one don't want to feel like I "need" to include 45 points of flotilla's in a list to be competitive. In casual play its easier to try whatever you want, and I just hope flotillas aren't going to be an "auto-include" in fleets.

My guess, with my limited experience with the game, is that we'll see them in most fleet, just like most fleet have some squadrons. Instead of being ships and squadrons, now it will be ships, flotillas and squadrons.

It will certainly give more value to gunnery team. With only 3 hull and 1 shield, I can see them going down pretty fast, even reliably one-shotted by Huge ships in medium range, and that's still 23+pts each that you give to your opponent.

My guess, with my limited experience with the game, is that we'll see them in most fleet, just like most fleet have some squadrons. Instead of being ships and squadrons, now it will be ships, flotillas and squadrons.

I agree. Much like the no squadrons > few squadrons > many squadrons > no squadrons circle, we'll see the anti flotillas > flotillas > no flotillas > anti-flotillas. I'm not sure it'll be quite as dramatic, but building to kill flotillas (fishing for accuracies, many small shots, etc) will put you at somewhat of a disadvantage against fleets which brought no flotillas and did not build to counter them, which will in turn crumble to fleets with flotillas.

I don't know that it will be quite as marked as the squadron RPS game, but it'll be comparable.

I think we'll see a rush at the beginning where everyone tries the new unit. We'll then see quite a few adjustments to fleet archetypes, typical upgrades taken. We'll see a few surprises in new fleet designs, and then they'll settle down into being included about as often as all of the other ships in the game.

I suspect they'll be common but not everywhere.

Scatter token or not, these things will die easily. That will put a lot of players off of them who prefer something more resilient. So, I would doubt that'll be that prevalent.

They're going to be everywhere on the Imperial side, that's for sure. Imperials finally have a ship to activate all their cheap squadrons, and it's actually a better anti-fighter ship than the Raider in many circumstances.

They also still don't really attack for much. Whereas you can get a pretty good gladiator for 63 points. Glad1, Ordnance, APT.

Or a TRCR.

And, given the nature of the conversation - how many Squadrons do those Gladiators and TRCRs sling?

Sometimes its not about the Dice.

Sometimes its TOTALLY about the Dice. But I don't know if this is the case

I was just gonna stick H9s on my assault frigate and be done with it.

Boy, if H9's could supplant XI7's as the default turbolaser upgrade... craigbesohappy.jpg.

On another note: Do you think we will see ships (non-flotillas) with the Fleet Support icon at some point? I'd love to see that in the future, as I see it as a way to keep increasing the variability, though it definitely needs to avoid power creep.

I hope not unless its another very fragile ship. These damned things are actually very powerful. Slicer and bomber command are amazing.

The price you pay is the gamble. Gambling your opponent doesn't get an accuracy or doesn't have H-9s or Home One.

I'm curious to see how prominent the slicer tools become. If they're common, I need wing commanders on my carriers. However, upgrades like wing commanders are likely to push out slicer tools from the meta. Then we stop taking them and the slicer tools come back! AAAARGH!

I just like the idea of replacing 240pts of VSDs with 90pts of Gozantis to push my Rhymerball around. That 150pts will let me add in something that can either move or do some serious damage.

I think the big thing to remember about Flotillas is that they need something to support. On their own, they're complete and utter crap. But they make bombers and durable ships more lethal and more durable. But if you kill said bombers and durable ships, they're not going to do much. Four damage at Medium range with a single Accuracy, and they're dead.

How about a whole fleet of carriers..like 12 with Ozzel.

Right now they are the new toy and people will take them just to see what happens.

For what I can tell there is a tipping point where you'll have too many and not enough hard hitters.

Right now they are the new toy and people will take them just to see what happens.

For what I can tell there is a tipping point where you'll have too many and not enough hard hitters.

I'm expecting the Rebel GR-75 to be much cheaper. So you will see a bunch on the rebel side to activation bid vs Demolisher (and set up your own MC30). The Imperial side will obviously use them for Demolisher lists. Less clear if the other lists want them. Say 6-7 activations will be the new Demolisher norm. Would a 2 ISD list really spend 92/115 points for activations? Not without some other usage.

After a second look, I'm wondering if I can get away with just Leia on a GR-75 as a backup and forgo wing commanders.

After a second look, I'm wondering if I can get away with just Leia on a GR-75 as a backup and forgo wing commanders.

I'd be worried about it still hurting your activation order.