Hi everyone,

Have been watching season 5 of Clone Wars (which is soooooo much better than Rebels).

Does anyone have any clarity of how the rules implement using force push in combat?

Jedi tossing droids about in combat...

Force users using push in the middle of light saber duels...

It is the move power.

If you are thinking what skill to use for either opposed or combat checks, it is Discipline for the force user and "depends" for the target.

See the side bar in the F&D core rule book on page 283.

Pretty much you'd be using the Move power, making use of Strength Upgrades (at least one for Silhouette 1 enemies) and the Control Upgrade to hurl objects. And this was actually confirmed by the devs (Sam Stewart in particular) as being intentional on their part.

Arrakus, on 29 Apr 2016 - 10:00 PM, said:

If you are thinking what skill to use for either opposed or combat checks, it is Discipline for the force user and "depends" for the target.

See the side bar in the F&D core rule book on page 283.

Usely resilience for none Force-users or discipline for Force-users

And you use magnitude to toss more than one person... though technically when used on minions you are tossing 1 "object" and getting more than one.. this might be a case of needing to use a higher strength or just using magnitude....discuss with your gm.

It's the move power, basically you need to upgrade move to where you can attack with it. Then it's a ranged attack like normal unless it's against a named NPC or nemesis in which case the difficulty is set by a resisting stat (usually discipline for most force powers but I allow athletics for move as it represents they're ability to hold onto something or recover from the push by landing right).

Such attacks deal 10 damage X the silhouette of the object being hurled. If you're not doing it as an attack and rather just to move then it does 0 damage and non important NPCs like minions and some rivals don't have any difficulty roll to hit.

Also you need to generate enough force pips as normal.

FYI Silhouette 0 does 5 damage.

You need 1 pip to activate the power 1 pip to activate strength upgrade and on pip to activate magnitude. Strength will up the silhouette by the number of strength upgrades you have purchased. so if you have 4 you can lift silhouette 4 objects for 1 pip or 8 for 2 pips and so on.

You need 1 pip to increase the number of objects by the number of magnitude upgrades you have.1 pip to increase the number by the number of magnitude upgrades you have. So if you have the 4 you can life 5 objects for 2 pips 9 and so on just like strength.

difficulty is based on object size. defensive talents do apply as it is a ranged attack. so sidestep and adversary etc apply. And per RAW yes you can use one adversary as a club against another.

FYI Silhouette 0 does 5 damage.

You need 1 pip to activate the power 1 pip to activate strength upgrade and on pip to activate magnitude. Strength will up the silhouette by the number of strength upgrades you have purchased. so if you have 4 you can lift silhouette 4 objects for 1 pip or 8 for 2 pips and so on.

You need 1 pip to increase the number of objects by the number of magnitude upgrades you have.1 pip to increase the number by the number of magnitude upgrades you have. So if you have the 4 you can life 5 objects for 2 pips 9 and so on just like strength.

difficulty is based on object size. defensive talents do apply as it is a ranged attack. so sidestep and adversary etc apply. And per RAW yes you can use one adversary as a club against another.

FYI Silhouette 0 does 5 damage.

You need 1 pip to activate the power 1 pip to activate strength upgrade and on pip to activate magnitude. Strength will up the silhouette by the number of strength upgrades you have purchased. so if you have 4 you can lift silhouette 4 objects for 1 pip or 8 for 2 pips and so on.

You need 1 pip to increase the number of objects by the number of magnitude upgrades you have.1 pip to increase the number by the number of magnitude upgrades you have. So if you have the 4 you can life 5 objects for 2 pips 9 and so on just like strength.

difficulty is based on object size. defensive talents do apply as it is a ranged attack. so sidestep and adversary etc apply. And per RAW yes you can use one adversary as a club against another.

I don't believe by raw you can activate magnitude, range etc more than one time. Otherwise a FR2 character could hypothetically throw a star destroyer from long range

Starkiller and Vader confirmed? Without the ability to activate strength and range twice no one can do this. Furthermore getting 5 force points with FR2 sounds especially lucky.

AoR, p 297 "Magnitude upgrade"

Spend 'Forcepoint' to increase the number of targets affected equal to the number of Magnitude upgrades purchased. The Force user may activate this multiple times, increasing the number of targets by this number each time. Howerever, remember that the Force user must still spend Force points to activate the power's actual effect.

Same for range, but nothing mentioning of activating strength upgrade multiple times. So shuttles seem to be the max silhouette.

I don't believe by raw you can activate magnitude, range etc more than one time. Otherwise a FR2 character could hypothetically throw a star destroyer from long range

Actually by RAW you can. Pretty hard to do it: technically it would require difficulty = Silhouette, so 8 purple, but that is usually maxed at 5 and upgraded from there, so RRRPP would be the final difficulty.

FYI Silhouette 0 does 5 damage.

You need 1 pip to activate the power 1 pip to activate strength upgrade and on pip to activate magnitude. Strength will up the silhouette by the number of strength upgrades you have purchased. so if you have 4 you can lift silhouette 4 objects for 1 pip or 8 for 2 pips and so on.

You need 1 pip to increase the number of objects by the number of magnitude upgrades you have.1 pip to increase the number by the number of magnitude upgrades you have. So if you have the 4 you can life 5 objects for 2 pips 9 and so on just like strength.

difficulty is based on object size. defensive talents do apply as it is a ranged attack. so sidestep and adversary etc apply. And per RAW yes you can use one adversary as a club against another.

I don't believe by raw you can activate magnitude, range etc more than one time. Otherwise a FR2 character could hypothetically throw a star destroyer from long range

Starkiller and Vader confirmed? Without the ability to activate strength and range twice no one can do this. Furthermore getting 5 force points with FR2 sounds especially lucky.

AoR, p 297 "Magnitude upgrade"

Spend 'Forcepoint' to increase the number of targets affected equal to the number of Magnitude upgrades purchased. The Force user may activate this multiple times, increasing the number of targets by this number each time. Howerever, remember that the Force user must still spend Force points to activate the power's actual effect.

Same for range, but nothing mentioning of activating strength upgrade multiple times. So shuttles seem to be the max silhouette.

I don't believe by raw you can activate magnitude, range etc more than one time. Otherwise a FR2 character could hypothetically throw a star destroyer from long range

Actually by RAW you can. Pretty hard to do it: technically it would require difficulty = Silhouette, so 8 purple, but that is usually maxed at 5 and upgraded from there, so RRRPP would be the final difficulty.

Take a look at the full wording of the Strength and Magnitude Upgrades in Force and Destiny under the Move power.

Both of them include the sentence "this upgrade can be activated multiple times."

So yes, it would be possible to affect objects greater than Silhouette 4, such as an Imperial-class Star Destroyer. However, you'd need all the Range Upgrades and likely need to trigger them twice to move said Star Destroyer any appreciable distance.

That said, it used to be in EotE and AoR that the Strength Upgrades for Move didn't include "this upgrade can be activated multiple times," so at one point you were capped at Silhouette 4 for moving things. With FaD being the latest iteration of the rules where the Force is concerned, I'd say that takes precedence over the older versions of Move.

Take a look at the full wording of the Strength and Magnitude Upgrades in Force and Destiny under the Move power.

Both of them include the sentence "this upgrade can be activated multiple times."

So yes, it would be possible to affect objects greater than Silhouette 4, such as an Imperial-class Star Destroyer. However, you'd need all the Range Upgrades and likely need to trigger them twice to move said Star Destroyer any appreciable distance.

That said, it used to be in EotE and AoR that the Strength Upgrades for Move didn't include "this upgrade can be activated multiple times," so at one point you were capped at Silhouette 4 for moving things. With FaD being the latest iteration of the rules where the Force is concerned, I'd say that takes precedence over the older versions of Move.

Alright finally got a look at it and yep it is able to be activated multiples times. Wow that's broken as hell. So effectively someone with Force rating 2 could hypothetically throw the Death Star, think I'm going to house rule with the older version for that.

Take a look at the full wording of the Strength and Magnitude Upgrades in Force and Destiny under the Move power.

Both of them include the sentence "this upgrade can be activated multiple times."

So yes, it would be possible to affect objects greater than Silhouette 4, such as an Imperial-class Star Destroyer. How

ever, you'd need all the Range Upgrades and likely need to trigger them twice to move said Star Destroyer any appreciable distance.

That said, it used to be in EotE and AoR that the Strength Upgrades for Move didn't include "this upgrade can be activated multiple times," so at one point you were capped at Silhouette 4 for moving things. With FaD being the latest iteration of the rules where the Force is concerned, I'd say that takes precedence over the older versions of Move.

I would say with 2 to 1 it sounds more like a copy and past error. We are talking about FFG editing after all. Not that I dislike the idea to move ISDs slowly when I made a check against 8 purple dice and can spend 5 force points in a 'lucky' role. I don't thing it is really OP in context to the challenge and requirements.

Take a look at the full wording of the Strength and Magnitude Upgrades in Force and Destiny under the Move power.

Both of them include the sentence "this upgrade can be activated multiple times."

So yes, it would be possible to affect objects greater than Silhouette 4, such as an Imperial-class Star Destroyer. How

ever, you'd need all the Range Upgrades and likely need to trigger them twice to move said Star Destroyer any appreciable distance.

That said, it used to be in EotE and AoR that the Strength Upgrades for Move didn't include "this upgrade can be activated multiple times," so at one point you were capped at Silhouette 4 for moving things. With FaD being the latest iteration of the rules where the Force is concerned, I'd say that takes precedence over the older versions of Move.

I would say with 2 to 1 it sounds more like a copy and past error. We are talking about FFG editing after all. Not that I dislike the idea to move ISDs slowly when I made a check against 8 purple dice and can spend 5 force points in a 'lucky' role. I don't thing it is really OP in context to the challenge and requirements.

1 force pip would move silhouette 0, 2 would move 4, and 3 would move 8, 4 would move 12, and 5 would move 16 at which point your looking at a force used spending 5 litterally pushing a planet. As for difficulty it caps at daunting so 8 is not a check you could theoretically make (perhaps that's the artificial cap?). I'll have to see if we can get an answer from the Dev's on this one. Speaking of does anyone know how to contact the developers?

Remember for star destroyers you are going to need to get in range so you need those range upgrades and the force pips to do it and the force rating to get all of those pips... which would mean the character has a LOT of xp. And that is just to dive to get those force power upgrades and multiple talent trees. So yeah. Not so broken. Especially considering that odds are people are gonna want to be able to do other things. But a multiple thousand point character throwing a star destroyer around. Not exactly broken.

Alright finally got a look at it and yep it is able to be activated multiples times. Wow that's broken as hell. So effectively someone with Force rating 2 could hypothetically throw the Death Star, think I'm going to house rule with the older version for that.

Yeah, I decided to go with the older stuff and cap it at Sil 4. Or it might get silly when PCs start to get 5+ force dice.

Throwing ATATs around feels awesome. Throwing Star Destroyers around feels like jumping the shark in my opinion. But by RAW, you can.

Speaking of does anyone know how to contact the developers?

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/contact/rules/

Take a look at the full wording of the Strength and Magnitude Upgrades in Force and Destiny under the Move power.

Both of them include the sentence "this upgrade can be activated multiple times."

So yes, it would be possible to affect objects greater than Silhouette 4, such as an Imperial-class Star Destroyer. How

ever, you'd need all the Range Upgrades and likely need to trigger them twice to move said Star Destroyer any appreciable distance.

That said, it used to be in EotE and AoR that the Strength Upgrades for Move didn't include "this upgrade can be activated multiple times," so at one point you were capped at Silhouette 4 for moving things. With FaD being the latest iteration of the rules where the Force is concerned, I'd say that takes precedence over the older versions of Move.

I would say with 2 to 1 it sounds more like a copy and past error. We are talking about FFG editing after all. Not that I dislike the idea to move ISDs slowly when I made a check against 8 purple dice and can spend 5 force points in a 'lucky' role. I don't thing it is really OP in context to the challenge and requirements.

There was also a Dev answer over on the FFG forums that the intent is very much that Strength Upgrades can be triggered multiple times. And point of fact, the Strength Upgrade was specifically changed during the FaD Beta so that it could be triggered multiple times. In fact, a lot of the pre-existing Force powers were updated to note if they could or could not be activated more than once as part of the FaD Beta. I'd suggest actually checking out the FaD Beta updates, as it provides some useful information in regards to how things changed and developed regarding Force powers.

Remember for star destroyers you are going to need to get in range so you need those range upgrades and the force pips to do it and the force rating to get all of those pips... which would mean the character has a LOT of xp. And that is just to dive to get those force power upgrades and multiple talent trees. So yeah. Not so broken. Especially considering that odds are people are gonna want to be able to do other things. But a multiple thousand point character throwing a star destroyer around. Not exactly broken.

Now this is solved however if the difficulty cap makes this impossible. The book claims difficulty caps at daunting but hurl says the difficulty is equal to the silhouette. The question for the Dev's then is does hurl circumvent this cap, does it just change to daunting if the silhouette is higher, or does it make it impossible to move anything larger than daunting difficulty.

Regardless I'm not going to allow it in my game meaning a house rule of a silhouette cap to prevent us from turning to silly on the power scales, throwing a normal carrier around is devastating enough when it can happen.

Take a look at the full wording of the Strength and Magnitude Upgrades in Force and Destiny under the Move power.

Both of them include the sentence "this upgrade can be activated multiple times."

So yes, it would be possible to affect objects greater than Silhouette 4, such as an Imperial-class Star Destroyer. How

ever, you'd need all the Range Upgrades and likely need to trigger them twice to move said Star Destroyer any appreciable distance.

That said, it used to be in EotE and AoR that the Strength Upgrades for Move didn't include "this upgrade can be activated multiple times," so at one point you were capped at Silhouette 4 for moving things. With FaD being the latest iteration of the rules where the Force is concerned, I'd say that takes precedence over the older versions of Move.

I would say with 2 to 1 it sounds more like a copy and past error. We are talking about FFG editing after all. Not that I dislike the idea to move ISDs slowly when I made a check against 8 purple dice and can spend 5 force points in a 'lucky' role. I don't thing it is really OP in context to the challenge and requirements.

There was also a Dev answer over on the FFG forums that the intent is very much that Strength Upgrades can be triggered multiple times. And point of fact, the Strength Upgrade was specifically changed during the FaD Beta so that it could be triggered multiple times. In fact, a lot of the pre-existing Force powers were updated to note if they could or could not be activated more than once as part of the FaD Beta. I'd suggest actually checking out the FaD Beta updates, as it provides some useful information in regards to how things changed and developed regarding Force powers.

Speaking of does anyone know how to contact the developers?

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/contact/rules/