When looking at the weaponstats blackpowder weapons seem to be very expensive and not much better than bows/crossbows and there doesn't seem to be more (or better) gunpowder specific action cards than bow ones.

So can those who've tried it out (I've only just gotten the game) give me their impression of whether or not the "Pierce 1" and "CR2" (versus CR3 for bows/Crossbows) makes up for the huge cost and the "Unreliable 2"?

The same question could be asked of bow cost vs. crossbow costs (though the difference is a bit less here).

Now I don't mind blackpowder weapons being expensive but I do think that the cost should be made up for somehow and I'm not sure the minor differences between weapons are enough.

Making them "Pierce 2" might add a bit more oomph and I guess I could also wait and see if they produce some more gunpowder specific actions as I don't mind the weapons being similar if the actions cards make them different.

Comments - thoughts - ideas?

Yes. I'd add another fortune die.

jh

Well to be fair, in WHFB there aren't huge differences between a handgun (black powder rifle for non-warhammer people) and a crossbow. The Handgun has a range of 24", Strength 4, and Armor Piercing (-1 Armor Save). The Crossbow has 30" range and Strength 4. So I think it is fair that the Handgun in WFRP "only" has piercing and a better crit rating. Plus, you have to remember the difference in price is not just about the stats, it is also about the rarity.

If you include the psychological effect of firearms, they are more effective. The noise and flash would be scary to ppl who don't see their use on a regular basis. Wild animals would be frightened off, possibly even monstrous wild animals. Perhaps the weilder gains Fear 1 in these situations, or most likely use it to enhance an intimidation roll.

Given their cost, they also become status symbols. As long as its still a Roleplaying game, things should be examined not just by their stats. I have found warhammer thru the years to be a beautiful game, where all items, things are not created equal, and only shine when roleplayed correctly.

And if you think it really sucks add more peirce or don't include soak for certain armor types, i think full plate, chain, and leather could still stop a bullet depending on range, and powder charge. Pistols having a smaller charge would not bypass armor as easy as rifles/blunderbuss.

The easiest solution is to put items like this in a roleplaying context and give them qualities that shine.

plus remember unreliable 2 means two chaos stars have to be rolled.

As default ranged attacks are 1 <P>, you'd have to be doing something a bit special with the handgun to have it go off in your face.

pumpkin said:

Yeah rolling two chaos symbols on 2 challenge dice is what, 1 in 64 rolls? How many times are you really going to roll 2 challenge dice on a ranged weapon shot? One time in 64 shots (not including just the one challenge die shots) isn't unreliable at all to me. I think unreliable 2 won't happen enough to even make the rule worth designing in the first place.

Thundering Shot, Execution shot, and Twin Pistols are all very nice attack actions that can only be used with blackpowder weapons (or crossbow pistols in the case of twin pistol action). I would probably give a handgun and hochland rifle pierce 2, though.