They should really reconsider ever using the word "considered" again. (Pun oh-so-intended.)

There are only two other player cards that use the word considered. Hero Gandalf and Ally Saruman.

They should really reconsider ever using the word "considered" again. (Pun oh-so-intended.)

There are only two other player cards that use the word considered. Hero Gandalf and Ally Saruman.

Yes, but enemies that are "considered to be engaged" still give me fits every single time.

*cough* It says 'treat'.

*cough* It says 'treat'.

Not helping!

*cough* It says 'treat'.

lol, I stand corrected. Nonetheless, I suspect you get the spirit of what I'm saying.

Yeah, of course. Sorry, I'm not helping. I just want to find an explanation that doesn't require errata, as I think that should always be a last resort.

Nice catch on this interaction!

I went through the rulebook and faq (like the most I guess) and it doesn't get very clear for me how this Card works (similiar to stand together when the core set was released). But I'd say it's obvious FFG will not allow this Combo to exist

First Thing: I don't think playing vanish from sight has an effect, if you are at 20 threat or below as it only has an effect if you are higher and the new faq states that Player Card effects are not recalculated after they are played, so you Play vanish, check the conditions (above 20), you don't meet them and nothing happens.

Second: You should be able to raise or lower your threat. Vanish just makes you treat it different. Example: Your threat is 35, you Play vanish and treat yout threat as 20. Now lower your threat by 5 and now treat your threat of 30 like a 20. I understand it like different People wearing the same costume: They are different people, but all look the same. Vanish doesn't change your "real" threat nor does it prevent it from changing, it just "Displays" a different number for game mechanics.

Third: I think you will loose if your threat becomes 50 or higher (at least I assume that's what FFG will rule as it doesn't Need any errata or reprinting if they just say: that's how the rules are). Why? Rulebook reads: If your threat Level reaches 50 you are eliminated. I'd say that both effects (vanish's after the Action is resolved and the one from the rulebook) are passive (always active) so they belong into the same category of effect Resolution, but because the Elimination rule uses "if", while vanish has no such word and should therefore be resolved first loosing you the game.

I am no native english Speaker and this discussion is heavily based on wording I would say and I think is is especially argueable, if the "if" from the rulebook makes a difference (what is the only reason I could think of why the Combo should not work). I guess you could argue that the elemination rule is more of a forced effect, so it should always be checked after appliing vanish's effect.

Even if I see the interaction completly wrong, I am sure FFG will do everything they Need to prevent this Combo (like a day-1 Errata).

Edit: Just imagine they Reprint vanish to prevent this from Happening and recall all released stormcaller APs. We would have to wait so much longer :S

In case anyone is interested or hadn't noticed all the encounter card spoilers seem to be up on cardgamedb

Lots of enemy ships!

I see no reason why you would not be able to modify your threat when it is being "treated as 20" under the effect of Vanish from Sight.

Possible parallel here, but if you have a "treat text block as blank" effect on a character, you can still gain Ranged or Sentinel via card effects like Arwen or Dunedain Cache (previously confirmed by dev). Which is kind of like "writing" to a text box that is "treated as blank."

Exciting stuff! Still awaiting to get this!

Hi!

The following is a possible interaction of the various rules:

The card Vanish From Sight creates a lasting effect, and as such the effect is not recalculated (per 1.55 rule clarification in FAQ).

In other words, your threat cannot be reduced (which is a cost you must pay for the effect of Wandering Took to resolve, and thus you cannot initiate his triggered ability).

I see no reason why you would not be able to modify your threat when it is being "treated as 20" under the effect of Vanish from Sight.

Possible parallel here, but if you have a "treat text block as blank" effect on a character, you can still gain Ranged or Sentinel via card effects like Arwen or Dunedain Cache (previously confirmed by dev). Which is kind of like "writing" to a text box that is "treated as blank."

So a character's text box is essentially a repository for traits and keywords to be 'written' into? Interesting, not thought of it like that before.

The gaining of ranged or sentinel seems a bit odd given the recent rulings on lasting effects, where encounter card effects have to be recalculated whenever the game state changes. Unless that only happens when the encounter card says "printed text box" (e.g. Shadow of Fear) rather than just "text box" (e.g. Shelob's Poison)?

Arwen and Dunedain Signal don't alter the text box, they simply say the character "gains sentinel". Whether the text box lacks sentinel because of an encounter effect or because it never had it in the first place hardly matters.

The card Vanish From Sight creates a lasting effect, and as such the effect is not recalculated (per 1.55 rule clarification in FAQ).

In other words, your threat cannot be reduced (which is a cost you must pay for the effect of Wandering Took to resolve, and thus you cannot initiate his triggered ability).

This A imply B logic... you got A, B, but this A=>B, I don't know where you get it...

For me, "consider" is like a tracing-paper. You still move your threat dial as your threat is modified, but you only get to see the number "20".

I'm afraid that Calvadur will be right, that it will be ruled like reaching 50 on your dial will still eliminate you... but that would be just a bad strategy to prevent the combo.

I'm still amazed about how game developper/designer (other?) fail to see when they introduce such cards. Rod of the Steward IS a potential breach for a loop combo. Either you got an action that has no limit and alter the game state without much loss, or you got a response that has no limit and alter the game state without much loss. That's why a lot of card got errated, and things like Wandering Took, Rod of the Steward, Love of Tales, Durin's Legacy and the likes should not have been printed like that. Those are too close of making loop. I don't have any idea, for now, how to abuse the Rod, but we will, it's just a matter of time... or card...

At least, all the Noldor Card were really well made, I was very afraid with all this discard interactions, but they were well made.