I am having the biggest problem against three scouts. I started fighting them with my fun squads, then tried the Meta lists I am used to, then tried the ones I am not used to. It is pretty clear the problem is that scouts are too OP and the game is broken and I will never play X-wing again until the developers fix this!

Just kidding, obviously it is the one piloting the ships lol.

So what are some important strategies I should use against three scouts? Just looking for general tips, not specific builds.

#1 The Rule of 11.

#2 Turn 0

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/106992-the-rule-of-eleven/

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2014/3/20/turn-zero/

Use arc dodgers and dance circles around them...

Carnor Jax!

I am having the biggest problem against three scouts. I started fighting them with my fun squads, then tried the Meta lists I am used to, then tried the ones I am not used to. It is pretty clear the problem is that scouts are too OP and the game is broken and I will never play X-wing again until the developers fix this!

Just kidding, obviously it is the one piloting the ships lol.

So what are some important strategies I should use against three scouts? Just looking for general tips, not specific builds.

First, control your range. It's not a new aspect of the game (e.g., the two-year-old Rule of 11 post linked above), but it hasn't been particularly important lately. It is now. If you control range--in general, but especially on the approach--better than your opponent does, your opponent is going to find his or her ordnance very difficult to use.

Second, deny actions. Almost all ordnance tactics, and certainly the most typical triple Contracted Scout builds, are action-dependent. You can do this with Stressbot, you can do it with Palob, you can do it with Carnor Jax, you can do it with Wes. And if you're good at range control and good at anticipating your opponent's maneuvers, you can even do it cheaply by blocking with any PS1-2 pilot (or any pilot equipped with Enhanced Scopes).

Third, where possible distribute the damage. Two or three torpedoes from the usual Scout builds will kill most ships. But if you can get your opponent to put one torpedo into Ship A and one torpedo into Ship B, not only are you much more likely to be able to modify all your defense rolls, but you're unlikely to lose anything but maybe a TIE fighter. That means that if you can force your opponent to split damage, your list will probably hit back harder, for longer, than if you let your opponent focus fire.

I am having the biggest problem against three scouts. I started fighting them with my fun squads, then tried the Meta lists I am used to, then tried the ones I am not used to. It is pretty clear the problem is that scouts are too OP and the game is broken and I will never play X-wing again until the developers fix this!

Just kidding, obviously it is the one piloting the ships lol.

So what are some important strategies I should use against three scouts? Just looking for general tips, not specific builds.

First, control your range. It's not a new aspect of the game (e.g., the two-year-old Rule of 11 post linked above), but it hasn't been particularly important lately. It is now. If you control range--in general, but especially on the approach--better than your opponent does, your opponent is going to find his or her ordnance very difficult to use.

Second, deny actions. Almost all ordnance tactics, and certainly the most typical triple Contracted Scout builds, are action-dependent. You can do this with Stressbot, you can do it with Palob, you can do it with Carnor Jax, you can do it with Wes. And if you're good at range control and good at anticipating your opponent's maneuvers, you can even do it cheaply by blocking with any PS1-2 pilot (or any pilot equipped with Enhanced Scopes).

Third, where possible distribute the damage. Two or three torpedoes from the usual Scout builds will kill most ships. But if you can get your opponent to put one torpedo into Ship A and one torpedo into Ship B, not only are you much more likely to be able to modify all your defense rolls, but you're unlikely to lose anything but maybe a TIE fighter. That means that if you can force your opponent to split damage, your list will probably hit back harder, for longer, than if you let your opponent focus fire.

When it comes to controlling range, do you recommend staying close? This might be where my problem lies because the turrets seem to be the biggest problem. Torps are just a second cake to put icing on.

I am having the biggest problem against three scouts. I started fighting them with my fun squads, then tried the Meta lists I am used to, then tried the ones I am not used to. It is pretty clear the problem is that scouts are too OP and the game is broken and I will never play X-wing again until the developers fix this!

Just kidding, obviously it is the one piloting the ships lol.

So what are some important strategies I should use against three scouts? Just looking for general tips, not specific builds.

First, control your range. It's not a new aspect of the game (e.g., the two-year-old Rule of 11 post linked above), but it hasn't been particularly important lately. It is now. If you control range--in general, but especially on the approach--better than your opponent does, your opponent is going to find his or her ordnance very difficult to use.

Second, deny actions. Almost all ordnance tactics, and certainly the most typical triple Contracted Scout builds, are action-dependent. You can do this with Stressbot, you can do it with Palob, you can do it with Carnor Jax, you can do it with Wes. And if you're good at range control and good at anticipating your opponent's maneuvers, you can even do it cheaply by blocking with any PS1-2 pilot (or any pilot equipped with Enhanced Scopes).

Third, where possible distribute the damage. Two or three torpedoes from the usual Scout builds will kill most ships. But if you can get your opponent to put one torpedo into Ship A and one torpedo into Ship B, not only are you much more likely to be able to modify all your defense rolls, but you're unlikely to lose anything but maybe a TIE fighter. That means that if you can force your opponent to split damage, your list will probably hit back harder, for longer, than if you let your opponent focus fire.

When it comes to controlling range, do you recommend staying close? This might be where my problem lies because the turrets seem to be the biggest problem. Torps are just a second cake to put icing on.

Depends on your list, but in general, yes, you want to be at Range 1. Those torpedoes are practically guaranteed to land 4 hits on you; I'll take a piddly three dice to the face over that any day, especially if I get to shoot too.

Generally, the best way to defeat these guys is by keeping them from getting their ordnance off--which can mean a few things. Dodging arcs is one way; controlling range is another; and denying actions (through stress or bumping) is a third. Oh, and killing them before they shoot their torps is also nice, but it's a bit harder to pull off. When you're able to do those things, the Jumpmasters become a lot less lethal; at that point, you're up against a list with the same offensive output as three TIE fighters (albeit with a couple other tricks up its sleeves).

blocking works good as they are action dependent. Stressing them also helps a BUNCH..

I'll take a piddly three dice to the face over that any day, especially if I get to shoot too.

if you have high agility with AT, sure. if you have low agi, like a VCX, those 3 dice with focus and TL still hurt, especially if they crit, and are enough to finish off a ship whose shields were stripped by a plasma torp

LTP, that's the official standpoint on these forums, because people just refuse to acknowledge FFG didn't do their math with the toilets' cost.

Sadly, that's only for Rebels, because Empire has Carnor and Scum has Palob for this purpose.

LTP, that's the official standpoint on these forums, because people just refuse to acknowledge FFG didn't do their math with the toilets' cost.

Sadly, that's only for Rebels, because Empire has Carnor and Scum has Palob for this purpose.

Also the fact that they're not actually destroying the world. I'm not sure that they've actually won a single regionals.

LTP, that's the official standpoint on these forums, because people just refuse to acknowledge FFG didn't do their math with the toilets' cost.

Sadly, that's only for Rebels, because Empire has Carnor and Scum has Palob for this purpose.

Also the fact that they're not actually destroying the world. I'm not sure that they've actually won a single regionals.

OK I'm just going on a limb here, but I imagine it's possible for a list to be so strong as to beat a lot of average skill players in the hands of an average skill players, while at the same times not being super top tier so that the top players not only can beat it but don't usually prefer to play it. this is an alternative explanation. the fact they didn't win a regional does not mean the cries for OP are necessarily all wrong

They took hoth, which was nationals-level competition. They consistently make top eight/top four. Just as importantly, they're gatekeepers. Sure, you could put a ywing in your list. But if you meet scouts, the ywing will not survive the first shots.

So you don't bring ywings.

LTP, that's the official standpoint on these forums, because people just refuse to acknowledge FFG didn't do their math with the toilets' cost.

Sadly, that's only for Rebels, because Empire has Carnor and Scum has Palob for this purpose.

Also the fact that they're not actually destroying the world. I'm not sure that they've actually won a single regionals.

1: be higher than PS3

2: not fly directly into them

You need to be this good at Range control: You should be able to tell me exactly what range every single ship will be at the end of setting dials. This includes enemy barrel rolls.

Literally. Every single one. Exactly what range. Range bump, 1 2 or 3 or out.

If you can't do this, you haven't mastered range control. Simple. Go practice.

LTP, that's the official standpoint on these forums, because people just refuse to acknowledge FFG didn't do their math with the toilets' cost.

Sadly, that's only for Rebels, because Empire has Carnor and Scum has Palob for this purpose.

Also the fact that they're not actually destroying the world. I'm not sure that they've actually won a single regionals.

You need to be this good at Range control: You should be able to tell me exactly what range every single ship will be at the end of setting dials. This includes enemy barrel rolls.

Literally. Every single one. Exactly what range. Range bump, 1 2 or 3 or out.

If you can't do this, you haven't mastered range control. Simple. Go practice.

Can anyone actually do this? I love this game and have played since Core set 1 release but I'll be damned if my MK1 eyeball and memory will ever allow me to be that good.

Regardless, I do well with Uboats when I slow-roll.

LTP, that's the official standpoint on these forums, because people just refuse to acknowledge FFG didn't do their math with the toilets' cost.

Sadly, that's only for Rebels, because Empire has Carnor and Scum has Palob for this purpose.

But if any real person comes around to tell the OP he should just learn to play--you know, not one of the first fifteen people who were making genuine attempts to help the OP, but some other person who hasn't showed up to the thread yet--that guy should consider himself well and truly pre-rebutted!

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/106992-the-rule-of-eleven/

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2014/3/20/turn-zero/

The guy who made that Rule of 11 video is one of the regulars at my FLGS. He's easily one of the best players in the region.

Do 9 damage on each of them!

LTP, that's the official standpoint on these forums, because people just refuse to acknowledge FFG didn't do their math with the toilets' cost.

Sadly, that's only for Rebels, because Empire has Carnor and Scum has Palob for this purpose.

Asteroid placement:

I worked out my favorite place for asteroid against scouts. Players flying scouts like to lineup on the right side (your left side) to open up their left moves.

Grab largest (longest) asteroid you have available. Place it range 4 from the opponents end, and about half inch (width of range ruler) passed range 2 on the sides. If the scout does a 1,2,3 opening straight move, his 1 bank, 2 sharp and bank, and 3 bank are blocked.

If he moved 1 forward opening, his only turn option is the 1 sharp. If he opens with 1 forward, and 1 forward again trying to slow play, this asteroid placement blocks ALL his moves except straight, so he will be forced to move straight on his third turn. Plenty of time for you to get behind their arc.

Head on collision! Sure Why not!?

To block a scout with a small ship aka Awing Proto:

Round 1: Move 3 forward.

If a scout goes 4 forward, you are still out of range 3. (rule of 11, 4 move + 2 base and your 3 move + 1 base)

Round 2: Move 5 forward and boost (rule of 16 for range 1, you just got the 15 move (3+1base,5+1base,1+1base, and he still has to move at least 1 + 2 base aka bump)

With the 5 boost, and scout did a 1 straight opening, you block all his straights but 4 straight. If he did 2,3 straight, he has to fly past you with a 3+ straight, aka no arc for ordnance.

If he did a 1 straight opening, and you want to range 1 AND fight, do a 5 straight and action. If he does a 1 straight you are both in range 1. 2/3 straight and he bumps.

So, if your awing proto does a 3 forward

His scout does a 1 forward.

Your Awing proto does a 5 straight and boost.

He gets blocked trying to 1,2,3 straight. His banks are blocked by the asteroid. His only safe moves are a 4 straight passed you, or a 1 turn left, putting you out of arc.

Next round if you blocked him, with the asteroid placement above, his ONLY option is to go straight. All his left turns and banks are blocked, and going right is only death off the board)

The times I have faced scouts, never triples mind you, only two and a slaver or something, they always lineup in the opponents right corner, so I have my one asteroid to prevent them turning inwards if they do lineup there.

If you have jousters like a T-70 and want to head on collision. Move a 3 forward, then a 4 and boost. If you bump, you bump. If not, its a range 1 exchange. But then next turn Kturn and fire (defenders are gonna love this!).

Practice practice practice. My brother and I were up for hours one night just going over a billion opening moves against scouts.

I will see if I can snap some photos this weekend.

If you deploy scouts in the left hand corner, facing right, you get to turn in left anyway. Deploying your astroids on their right hand side doesn't really give you an advantage...

I'm gonna try that out Wurms, sounds legit, thanks.

The talk of rule of 11 is good, but try to remember it's a special case.

It applies to deploying at the leadmost edge of your deployment area.
(3 range rulers = 9 range zones of 2.5 bases each for 22.5 bases across the board, our small ships take up 1 base, our large ships 2) so 20.5 bases between two ships at the rear edge of the deployment zone - and a range of 7.5 bases in a range ruler - our ships have to cover a total of 13 bases! (Rule of 13) (if we start forward at the front end of the deployment zone, then it's actually a rule of 10 - and in that case, you should technically end up at exactly range 3 extreme - so often you have to go 1 more to be in the attack zone.

so 11 is the special case that you're starting in the forward part of your deployment zone.

This means you can do cool tactics with blocks of ships where you use the distance rule and leapfrog your rear ships into the front, bump your rear ships and have an extreme range engagement with all 4 of your ships - where normally you might have gotten just the lead 2.

It's also important to remember that it's the special case for parallel ships exactly across from eachother. When you get into banks, offset angle placement, and offset positions (corner to corner) - that rule doesn't apply, though you could work out the range numbers along the hypotenuse.

Ideally you want to range 2 jumpmasters out of the first exchange, while having all of your ships on the first exchange, because you'll be in a good position to control the range of the next attack. The 3 Jumpmasters take up the space of 12 small ships - so they will get in eachothers way too, (as well as yours) and that makes them fairly easy to block - dial concerns help you. so - Fly jumpmasters - or play them enough to get used to their primary movement patterns, then you'll have a very good idea of how to block them.

Finally keep in mind the ordnance carried by the jumpmasters - range 3 will be a perfect engagement if they're all rolling with cluster missiles. Range 1 if they're all loaded with proton torpedos. Out of arc, it's good to be in that range 2/3 zone, where they are losing firepower on their turrets, and can't hit you with the missiles.

You can also mitigate damage by focusing on staying out of the torpedo arc of one of the jumpmasters, and focusing it down to death. Don't split your damage on the jumpmasters, you need to drop them early and often. If you can prevent just one from using its torpedo combination - you'll lower the damage output quite a bit - it really is in the alpha strike where you're going to take the most damage - the alpha strike can be avoided.