So, Something interesting was brought up in my last session that I wanted to see if there was an official ruling on. The Question is on Healing vs Stim packs. I wondered around the Forum and couldn't find anything that specifically answers my question.

So Force Heal counts towards the number of Stim Pack uses that can be used on a given day. This is known and well established. It can only be used 5 times a day or less if the user uses Stim Packs.

This begs a follow up question of: Do the effects of the heal power diminish over the number of uses, like Stim Packs do. (-1 for the second heal, -2 for the third and so on.)

A player in my game was saying that it did, but the more I read into the power, the more I think it doesn't. The power says that is counts as a Stim Pack use, but it doesn't say that it works like a Stim Pack. I like the idea of the Force power just being a clear winner as far as healing goes vs Stim Packs. On top of that the whole idea behind Stim Packs being less effective the more you use them is that science can only do so much, but the mysticism of the Force should go beyond what science can do.

I don't know... What do you think?

My reading is that it doesn't suffer the diminishing effects that stimpacks do. I figure getting Heal to heal more than 3 or 4 wounds per activation requires some heavy XP expenditure (it's one of the most expensive powers, up there with Protect/Unleash and Bind), and with the relatively low Wound thresholds in this game, the challenge seems to come more from the risk of being dropped in any individual combat than from attrition of healing resources.

I agree that, while Force Heal counts towards the number of stim packs able to be used in a day, it shouldn't itself suffer the detrimental effect of repeated stim pack usage. I'd also take it a step further and say that it doesn't then pass on the reduced effects to stim pack usage, i.e. if you've used Force Heal twice, your first stim pack of the day should heal 5 rather than 3.

I don't know if the book says anything about that or not, though. I'm AFB, so I can't confirm any of it. Based on what you're saying, I think you made the right call.

I agree that, while Force Heal counts towards the number of stim packs able to be used in a day, it shouldn't itself suffer the detrimental effect of repeated stim pack usage. I'd also take it a step further and say that it doesn't then pass on the reduced effects to stim pack usage, i.e. if you've used Force Heal twice, your first stim pack of the day should heal 5 rather than 3.

I don't know if the book says anything about that or not, though. I'm AFB, so I can't confirm any of it. Based on what you're saying, I think you made the right call.

Seems like a fair assessment.

They flavor the diminishing returns based on the reduced affect of Stimpacks over the course of a day. So in that light it makes sense.

I agree that, while Force Heal counts towards the number of stim packs able to be used in a day, it shouldn't itself suffer the detrimental effect of repeated stim pack usage. I'd also take it a step further and say that it doesn't then pass on the reduced effects to stim pack usage, i.e. if you've used Force Heal twice, your first stim pack of the day should heal 5 rather than 3.

I don't know if the book says anything about that or not, though. I'm AFB, so I can't confirm any of it. Based on what you're saying, I think you made the right call.

It makes sense for them to not reduce the effectiveness of the other. Stimpacks are really drugs and such in the blood stream, where having more of the same wouldn't really help in the long run. Using heal on a person is merely helping the cells rebuild themselves with nothing but the power of will.

This is probably the best reason for Force Healers to be in the galactic military, since they can rapidly treat the wounded and thereby save lives.

I agree that, while Force Heal counts towards the number of stim packs able to be used in a day, it shouldn't itself suffer the detrimental effect of repeated stim pack usage. I'd also take it a step further and say that it doesn't then pass on the reduced effects to stim pack usage, i.e. if you've used Force Heal twice, your first stim pack of the day should heal 5 rather than 3.

I don't know if the book says anything about that or not, though. I'm AFB, so I can't confirm any of it. Based on what you're saying, I think you made the right call.

It makes sense for them to not reduce the effectiveness of the other. Stimpacks are really drugs and such in the blood stream, where having more of the same wouldn't really help in the long run. Using heal on a person is merely helping the cells rebuild themselves with nothing but the power of will.

This is probably the best reason for Force Healers to be in the galactic military, since they can rapidly treat the wounded and thereby save lives.

but it is more than the power if will young padawan, it is THE POWER OF THE FORCE!

I agree that, while Force Heal counts towards the number of stim packs able to be used in a day, it shouldn't itself suffer the detrimental effect of repeated stim pack usage. I'd also take it a step further and say that it doesn't then pass on the reduced effects to stim pack usage, i.e. if you've used Force Heal twice, your first stim pack of the day should heal 5 rather than 3.

I don't know if the book says anything about that or not, though. I'm AFB, so I can't confirm any of it. Based on what you're saying, I think you made the right call.

It makes sense for them to not reduce the effectiveness of the other. Stimpacks are really drugs and such in the blood stream, where having more of the same wouldn't really help in the long run. Using heal on a person is merely helping the cells rebuild themselves with nothing but the power of will.

This is probably the best reason for Force Healers to be in the galactic military, since they can rapidly treat the wounded and thereby save lives.

Nitpick: It's not the power of will, but the power of Intellect.

Thanks for the input guys. I think I will run it with Heal/Harm not having the law of diminishing returns. It makes sense to me. Although I would love to hear more on what people think about it.

Thanks for the input guys. I think I will run it with Heal/Harm not having the law of diminishing returns. It makes sense to me. Although I would love to hear more on what people think about it.

I think its the right call, stimpacks are cheap as chips and everywhere, Heal is super expensive so reduced effectiveness is unkind, but its super effective thus the daily limit.

Also, mechanically an important note: Heal is an Action, while stimpacks are a Maneuver to use. That makes stimpacks quite a bit easier to use in a fight.

Also, mechanically an important note: Heal is an Action, while stimpacks are a Maneuver to use. That makes stimpacks quite a bit easier to use in a fight.

Only if you house rule equipment rules or buy a bunch of military belt pouches/something that allows you to draw items as an incidental. Otherwise it's one maneuver to find and grab the stimpack, and then one to use it.

I've house-ruled that in the game where we don't track Enc, though, and grabbed some belt pouches in the game that does, so it doesn't bother me.

Our team also use Force Heal almost the same way:

- It's an action

- does not diminish the strength of the heal (Int 4 always heal 4 points)

- counts to the daily 5 limited use

- does not count to the stimpack diminish count

- failed uses (when player decides to not active using dark side force) does count to the daily use limit

Although stimpacks are cheap, but still a limited resource and after combat healing is trivial... unless you add the last point.

It does count as a stim use, by RAW this does sound like it would count towards diminishing heals but given the arguments put forth I agree it does seem logical to say the heal power shouldn't diminish the wounds recovered by Stim as that reduction is, thematically caused by more of a resistance built over the day to those drugs not normally built with the power usage.

This said as a side note I don't let my players sit down during downtime and just spam heal either. If they fail a check to do it or refuse to use black pips that for me is the equivalent of their character not being capable of safely drawing upon the force and so they must wait until at least a different scene to try again.