Enough is enough, when can we expect an new expansion for Tide of Iron. I think we have show our dedication to the game and deserve something new.

If your sales aren't quite what you expected and are juggling the thought of dropping TOI thenplease let us know as there are other WWII games out there that deserve our attention.

Somehow I fail to grasp that such ultimatums will have an effect one way or the other......

I sincerely doubt such posts will inspire FFG to divulge their intents (unfortunately).

I honestly don't think that another expansion is in the offing. They would have struck while the iron was hot and on the heels of Normandy. Or at least would have teased it at Gen Con or Essen. Either the sales in the expansions simply weren't there, or they don't think that another expansion would move product. Which is unfortnate. I think that a Russian Front expansion would be a nice end for the product line (then sell armor/infantry/maps in seperate blister packs for those of us who want to play with more of the tanks but don't want to buy more expansions just to get more bits).

Nope, I'm not holding my breath for more expansions. I think Uwe has it right with his releases of Conflict of Heroes. He's already brought out one expansion (Storms of Steel) and the next is already being teased (D-Day). They seem to be coming out every 9 months, on the major convention schedule, and the buying public knows when to expect to see the next installment. Granted, it's the only game he's doing, but still...

FFG has their eyes on other prizes. I think they want to go in other directions (not the WWII simulation direction at least anymore)

And one more thing on the subject. FFG (or ANY other company for that matter) will never come right out and tell you "we have decided that XYZ is no longer worth our attention and we will no longer be supporting it". Why do that? As long as they say nothing, there is still hope and people will still go out there and buy the base game, the expansions and hope for more product. If they announce the end, then they lose potential sales and product rots on store shelves.

No, FFG will remain silent on ToI and will simply allow their silence to speak for itself. IF they have anything in the pipeline, it will show by Origins in June. If there's nothing by then, then I wouldn't expect anymore expansions and move on (if not already have moved on by then).

"And one more thing on the subject. FFG (or ANY other company for that matter) will never come right out and tell you "we have decided that XYZ is no longer worth our attention and we will no longer be supporting it". Why do that? As long as they say nothing, there is still hope and people will still go out there and buy the base game, the expansions and hope for more product. If they announce the end, then they lose potential sales and product rots on store shelves." - Scammer

I agree with the above (marketing strategy). Silence on the part of FFG is a neutral signal and not necessarily a negative. We all need to keep in mind that companies are monitoring the pulse of the economy and unlikely to expand product lines until they're sure the light at the end of the tunnel is not a train.

On a positive note, if the number of forum monitors is any indication, FFG is definitely monitoring ToI with a high level of interest. ToI is one of only two FFG board games with 10 forum monitors. The other being Twilight Imperium 3Ed. Moreover, FFG is activiley monitoring as opposed to passively as I have observed the removal of inappropriate postings.

What would also help to increase customer interest is an update of the scenario editor. I have noticed that there have not been many new fan-created scenarios lately. Maybe they should consider paying Mike Zebrowski to do the update.

As my favorite theater is North Africa, that would certainly get me to create more scenarios.

I would like to add some my thoughts to this debate:

Someone may feel that FFG is ignoring (overlooking) our expectation (demands) for another TOI expansion (this time probably from Russian environment) and he deduces from it that FFG "deflects" from their support of TOI.

But I do not think that a quality of any game can be measured by a number of its (released) expansions. Look, someone wrote in this forum, that he does not need any TOI expansions, because he can make do with a base game (expansions in fact only added some new map tiles, several card decks, and miniatures).

I think that if an interest of TOI-players (buyers) is decreasing, it is not caused because of not yet published Russian expansion or old version of TOI scenario editor.

TOI is a scenario based game. Without new scenarios its value fades. But do not tell me, that with its status quo (i.e. the base game, 2 expansions and
additional map pack) you are not able to design whatever scenario from WW2.

Look at the scenario database, how many new scenarios had been added during last halfyear? Surely not so many as earlier. What could be the reason?
Prevailing rather a passive role of players who sit and wait, till FFG or someone else serve them another portion of scenarios? And if this portion does not come, they start criticizing FFG that they neglect them.

Hey, I do not want to accuse any of you, no matter whether you uploaded here your scenarios or not, but rather emphasize the fact, that if WE TOI-players feel that FFG (maybe) has not a tendency to add (design) new additions to TOI, so why not let OUR OWN community fill in the gap.

TOI is designed as a tool, not as a final product. We have been given that tool and with it we can create (re-create) scenarios from WW2. So why not to do it?

Do you think that all battles from WW2 theatre have already been proccessed as scenarios? I do not think so. So let us create them as scenarios. Use our own custom rules (if official ones are missing). For example KlausFritch created a table(s) with stats for many WW2 units and vehicles belonging to different nations and surely you could find there other files (scenarios) with custom/advanced rules.

Do you think that the current version of the scenario editor does not support TOI expansions? Yes, you are right. But why not to improvize? Take a digital camera and take a snap of your battlefield (you will then have an .jpg file as a map). In any text processor you can create (write) a structural "template" of whatever "complicated" scenario file. Add both these things together and you have a scenario with all needy components :-).

Once again I repeat that I do not want to accuse anyone (neither any TOI player, nor FFG). I only want to emphasize that a level (quality) of TOI is made from the greatest part by its players community. If players and fan scenario-designers lose interest in creating new scenarios, then the game will be left to a mercy or un-mercy of its publisher, who can perceive it (rightfully) as a game which they can "put to ice".

Artemis said:

I completely agree with all of your posting. But please bear in mind that there lazy bastards (such as myself) out there who would LOVE an update of the editor because it would be so much easier than improvising.

Having said that, I feel the itch to get creative again.

In my opinion, there might be one more thing that you're neglecting. I really enjoy ToI and I find it to be a great game, yet I haven't even played all the scenarios from the base game, let alone Days of the Fox, Normandy, or Designer Series! It is because just as many other ToI fans, I am up to my eyes in work, and although I do try to play a scenario every time I can, then again it's been impossible for me to play through all of them so far! I have downloaded many good scenarios from the net, I have tried a couple scenarios from each of those expansions and I know it'll take me at least a year to give all those a try. This is also because I like to improve my tactics, so I tend to replay some of them once or twice. But still, I'm quite happy with what I've got and as of now, I don't need anymore.

On the other hand, it would be very sad to see ToI releases come to a close. I had been waiting for the game for SO LONG, and when it finally got released I just knew it was all that I would ever need in terms of WW2 gaming. Thus, in spite of the above paragraph, I would buy a new ToI expansion the moment it hit the shelves

Personally, I think they'll publish another "Designer Series" book before they try anything bigger. It should make better use of the Normandy components (such as the 88s and panthers, which almost haven't been used at all).

Muttah said:

Well said.

I have been out of touch for a while. Do we know that TOI releases are done? Or is it just that because there has been nothing since Normandy and the Designer Series there is concern?

If they are done, I am saddened by it but really don't think that is the case. Both BattleLore and Tannhauser were neglected for a while and have been receiving love recently. It's just more a case of only so many things can be developed at a time.

I am holding out hope that the unrevealed box game is the Eastern Expansion for TOI.

Maybe I am just too optimistic.

FFG has not come right out and said that ToI is done as far as expansions go. That would be silly for them to do since, from a marketing standpoint, it does them no good whatsoever. They are far better to say nothing and allow hope to prevail among the masses.

The fact that nothing was shown or discussed at Origins 2009 nor at GenCon last year nor at Essen, leads one to believe that FFG has taken ToI as far as they plan on going with the series. Typically, a game manufacturer will bring expansions out on a fairly steady schedule to satisfy the audience. That was true with DotF and Normandy.

While I'd love to see an Eastern Front expansion (or ANY expansion for that matter), I am not holding my breath nor setting money aside for it.

I just think its a little early to push the panic button on support of the game ending. I certainly agree that it is a back burner game, but don't think it has been definitively terminated. However I will acknowledge that a formal annoucement of such a decision will/would never come, so all we can do is sit and wait: Like Tannhauser, Battlelore etc.