1. the papar quality blows. my books stuck together cand the cards are this half plactic stuff. why when the rest of the product line uses the normal card stock. look at the wow board game. the $100 one it had better quality cards.

2. the rules i know that ffg has a tuff time with them but i wish the would learn. honestly, i dont know how to properly make a character. i would have thought that they would have learned. hell back to the wow game it has less rules than this but still had to be errata to make things simple, but it looks its dead. when there is cheat sheets when the game is a week you know thats there something wrong.

3. the art was nice but to much. it seems that i wish that it was spent of game design instead. that wizard and priest book could have been one.

4. i plead to gw to do something about this. to ffg to get new editors. and to the naysayers you were right. i have been a fan of this game from the start as a way to hop in at the start of something new. now why do i bother. why is what i want to hear from jay and christian, why did this get past the front door. but why, i ask, why?

pm me if if you want to have a chat.

ad1. The paper quality is good, I don't know what are You complaining about. The cards are really great and it for my 1st quality (and I have many of FFG games).

ad2. The character creation proces is simple like the construction of a stick. I don't know what don't You understand in it?

ad3 and ad4. The design is ok, You are trying to find something that You can complain about in my opinion.

ad1. The paper quality is good, I don't know what are You complaining about. The cards are really great and it for my 1st quality (and I have many of FFG games). its just not proper card stock it feels thin and really plastically its just not up to snuf to what i expect the quality to be.

ad2. The character creation proces is simple like the construction of a stick. I don't know what don't You understand in it? what card sdoes each class get at the start. even the basics wheres the page for that. where is the list of powers that each class can have. how xp is done its split over four pages. how to figure out inititive? where is a page where it goes thought the turn order just on its own. where the proper layout oh wait theres a pice of art in the way. really anser that for me then please.

ad3 and ad4. The design is ok, You are trying to find something that You can complain about in my opinion.

re-read my post then put a proper anwser.

mcdead said:

Make your post readable and I will.

Character generation made easy 101:

First off sit down with a piece of paper, the basic rule book and a pencil. I find that 2B Works for me, this is not included in the box.
Then pick up a few dice and roll to see what race you get to play, write that down on the paper. Now your race has some special abilities, write those down as well then look at the character creation point chart, here you can see how many character creation points you have and how many basic points you have to spend, not that the "demi-humans" come out at a bit of an advantage there, but its ok, humans have to spend fewer xp moving career's later on.

Now take a stack of basic careers, if you are lucky enough to have the adventures toolkit already add the basic ones to the stack. Shuffel them and draw 3, then pick the one you like the best.

Spend your CP's in a way that makes sense for that career, now in order to raise an ability you have to spend CP's on it, now lets say that your human then raising your strenght from 2 to say 4 works like this: First you spend 3 points raising it from 2 to the and then you spend 4 points raising it from 3 to 4, so 3+4=7, pretty basic stuff, now again if your human you have 18 CP's left and can improve another ability, say toughness or agility. Then you buy skills, wealth, talents and actions.

Then you set up your stance card, find your career special ability in the career ability deck and place that next to your career card and character sheet. Then you "socket" a talent or two and then you are more or less ready to go, now you will need to find out what kind of party your in as well, but for that you need the rest of the group.

I hope that clears things up a little bit for you.

mcdead said:

Give actual reasons you don't like the system and you will get a proper answer. Your post just stinks of Troll. The paper components are fine, which ones in particular are you upset about. If the books are your only answer then I would have to disagree. My rulebook had a few pages stuck together in the corner, but that was an easy fix, and otherwise they are great looking books. If you can't figure out the character creation process, which is extremely easy, then you might not want to bother with the rest of the game. As for your other questions:

"what card sdoes each class get at the start. even the basics wheres the page for that."

Page 31, Look under Step 4: Acquire Action Cards. Basically you just go through the deck and pick what you want. It might help a lot if you actually read the section about Action Cards as well. All of the cards lists the requirements to use the card. It is pretty straight forward. If you look in the box in the corner labeled "BASIC ACTION CARDS" it says "Each character begins the game with one copy of each of the following basic action cards he meets the requirements for:" and then goes on to LIST the actions. Also you need the cards for your purchased Talents, and for your particular Class. Mages and Priests also have Order and Faith cards they must pick.

"where is the list of powers that each class can have."

The deck itself is the list, just look at the requirements on the cards. Also see my response to your previous question.

"how xp is done its split over four pages."

Page 34 under Earning Experience & Advances "At the end of each play session, every participating character earns one experience point, which provides the character with one advance he can spend on improvements." It goes on to state various ways the GM may wish to give extra Experience for other reasons.

"how to figure out inititive?"

Page 55 under Initiative & Turn Order: "At the beginning of an encounter, each participant makes an initiative check. The characteristic used to make the initiative check depends on the type of encounter. For combat encounters, AGILITY is used for initiative checks. For social encounters, FELLOWSHIP is used for initiative checks.

"where is a page where it goes thought the turn order just on its own."

Page 59 under Combat Example it goes through an entire player turn during a combat encounter.

"where the proper layout oh wait theres a pice of art in the way. really anser that for me then please."

What?

Please actually READ the book before forming an opinion of it. Just skimming over it and getting distracted by the pictures doesn't count.

szlachcic said:

I hate to agree, but his "4 things" comes off as pretty weak. Even I, who am waiting for negative comments on how the game looks/works, was put off by the troll style of complaining.

Oh hell, hum bug!

Yes, these are pretty weak. Of the four things, the only thing that I can see that holds any merit is that the "instructions" could have used one more re-write. As for too much artwork (derrrrr), paper quality (derrrrr), the fact that it's being produced at all (by FFG) and not being thrown under the bus by GW is pretty insane.

Here are a couple shortcomings in my book that I'll get over (because I'm reckless and flexible in the 3rd stance):

• that it wasn't twice as much stuff and $200..It would have been nice to have 3 more scenarios and the full Empire supplement IN the base box
• that there isn't one entry of each career in the beastiary (i.e. some thugs would be nice) - this was the same thing that turned me off about the otherwise excellent ratman sourcebook in 2e
• that they want to get rid of pencils (I like pencils)..oh, lord I dunno if I can play this game then..oh, oh, oh [weeping and holding forehead]
• that there aren't more cardboard standups of monsters (suppose I could make some more for personal use..but prob use mini's instead)..and that there isn't 100% new artwork
• although 50% of the playable races are elves!, there are no dark elf or wood-elf evil forest enemy stats in the bestiary
• that there isn't a book for the non-magic using careers (even though they make up 78.2345% of the product)
• that there isn't more scenario and/or convention support right off the bat
• that the official character sheets don't have roleplaying stuff on them (i.e. room for major background, etc.) and room for the talent sockets instead of having the career stuff on the table
• that there isn't a double-sided GM screen with dice symbols and all that stuff so people don't have to share the rulebook, but I submit that some more playtesting by the masses will be handy first
• that the promo box I was loaned sagged in the sun [now, I'm really weeping..sobbing really]
• that FFG was foolish enough to say that the set supports 3 players..I mean what did they think people were going to say?

Welcome to the cult of 3e!

jh

..

"From MY point of view, the JEDI are evil!"

oops. Sorry, I meant:

From my entirely subjective opinion, the quality of the game components of this game are right up there with any other components from other FFG games. Which, in my personal opinion, means that they're very decent.

Personal opinion, I mean. Just me.

A Troll?

-

Jericho said:

Not truly, just seems he is not properly expressing himself or his views.

Necrozius said:

We agree!

Peacekeeper_b said:

Some people here have started threads that demand a response from one of the game designers themselves.

Perhaps this OP is the same way?

Necrozius said:

Maybe. I know some writers/artists have online chat sessions, perhaps FFG could do that for specific questions before doing a FAQ/Eratta?

As my stance is, against the game, not against you all enjoying it.

Emirikol said:

Thanks for this - it's a well written, thoughtful list of criticisms that I can ponder.

Finally it's arrived in Melbourne, $135AU. I looked at it. They even had a copy open so potential buyers can thumb through the rules. Still, I spent $136AU on some books from an entirely different game instead...I just can't bring myself to buy WFRP3 yet.

mcdead is number # 1!!!

Congratulations mcdead, your the first to actually own a copy of warhammer that is complaining about it here on the forum

Well, enough joking, I am sorry to hear that you didn`t find the game to your liking. But I am also open to the idea that you got a bad print, is that possible? since it is rather the quality of the products you are complaining about, it could be from a bad print, right? one way to find out mcdead is to compare your copy with that of somoneone elses, to see if that is the case. if that is the case I suggest you contact FFGs consumer service.

Regarding the first point in the OP:

I wish you could handle my copy. I wear it out. I've read it through several times, flipped through it over and over, helping answer questions on the forum, and everyone I know has handled it near to death, and it still looks like new. The only thing I did to it was crease the covers. Near the spine, there's a crease put there by the manufacturer. I cracked that crease (front and back) as soon as I opened the box. This keeps the stiff covers from pulling the pages away from the spine.

My pages are still glossy and flat, despite being stored in a slightly damp basement. There's no wrinkling or sticking. The pages are supple, not stiff. I sleeved my cards, so no problems there. The career cards are warping a bit from the moisture (does anyone know of a sleeve large enough to fit them?).

The quality of the material is the LAST thing I would question regarding this release. Perhaps your copy got wet or something?

NezziR said:

I've been using 4x5" photo sleeve protectors with Descent. A cursory glance seems that they are the same size.

I can't remember where I bought mine from but I just did a quick search and you can see what they are like here.

Just find a supplier that's close to you that can get you the size that you want. Worst case scenario is you can always laminate them.

Oh, that steers me in the right direction. Thank you.

mcdead said:

Obvious troll is obvious.

Got my copy of the box set, and have to say the quality of the components in the box I received is up to FFG's usual high standard.

My only real concerns are that, for the price, I would have expected to get the basic spells for all eight of the Colleges of Magic (rather than just 3) and for each of the major religions of the Old World (again, only 3 religions are provided in the box). Additionally, quite a few of the careers (both basic and advanced) from both 1e and 2e are not included in the initial box.

Don't get me wrong; I understand why it was done the way it was done (so that the product line will be profitable and people will be encouraged to buy future card expansions, etc).

Given the great story-telling potential and overall fun provided by the new system, I'd rate the above as minor complaints. I've been a rabid fan of WFRPG since the first edition came out in the '80s and feel the new edition has enough echoes of what I loved about the original to keep my interest. The new mechanics give the old game a nice face lift, as well as simplifying and speeding up game play. Overall, I'm pretty content with the new ed. (or what there is of it so far).