Recently got introduced to the game and i have been experimenting with lists since i started. My problem is i dont get alot of game time in my FGS. So i typically only play with a friend of mine. With that said im trying to build a list that could compete in a store setting. A little bit ago i played a minimal squadron list. Then thoight what if i took the plunge and went full on no squadrons.

The current state of this list:

ISD escort

Author: schostoppa

Faction: Galactic Empire

Points: 395/400

Commander: Darth Vader

Assault Objective: Advanced Gunnery

Defense Objective: Hyperspace Assault

Navigation Objective: Superior Positions

Raider-I Class Corvette (44 points)

- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)

- Expanded Launchers ( 13 points)

Raider-I Class Corvette (44 points)

- Director Isard ( 3 points)

- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)

- Expanded Launchers ( 13 points)

Gladiator I-Class Star Destroyer (56 points)

- Demolisher ( 10 points)

- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)

- Engine Techs ( 8 points)

- Rapid Reload ( 8 points)

[ flagship ] Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points)

- Darth Vader ( 36 points)

- Avenger ( 5 points)

- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)

- Redundant Shields ( 8 points)

- Overload Pulse ( 8 points)

Fleet created with Armada Warlords

Shout out to the guys at that website....supurb list building site.

Anyway just wondering your thoughts.

The ISD is there for throwing crazy dice at range ignoring defenses.

Gladiator is the alpha strike

Raiders are anti-squadron role. They have expanded launchers to gove threat to ships if they clear the squadrons.

Overload Pulse doesn't work with Avenger like you think it does.

I would drop the Superior Positions objective. If you come up against a fighter build, especially ones with Rogue, they can just camp in your aft arcs and rack up victory tokens. I normally take few, if any, squadrons and have learned this the hard way.

I think no squadrons is doable, but it takes a pretty careful and exacting build. If you are up against a dedicated squadron build, you want to be able to tie up his bombers so that your raiders can actually take shots. Get both titles on your Raiders could really up your anti-squadron game.

The biggest problem with no squadrons is not that you cannot pick up the dice from ships to kill them eventually. The biggest problem is that there is nothing to prevent the squadrons from taking anti-ship shots, and 8+ dice per turn can really add up. A second problem is that your ships with good AS shots can end up with a tough choice between shooting the enemy ships and shooting their squadrons. I'll be honest, I'm working on the problem myself, but it is not one that has an easy solution. If you can get 10 AS shots from your ships, you've got a decent chance of removing at least some of the attacking squadrons in a round.

You'll want to look at anti-squadron upgrades very carefully. My sense is that you'll need some:

1. The ISD-II throws 2 blue AS dice. Leading Shots is a very cheap Ion Cannon upgrade that you're mainly taking to improve your anti-ship guns. It just has the added benefit of triggering on any attack. A 25% chance of throwing 2 misses from your anti-squadron attack gives you the chance to spend one blue to reroll the remaining blue at another 50% chance to hit. Every little bit helps.

2. Point Defense Reroute is overlooked: Its overall effect is not very dramatic and certainly won't feel dramatic. Its effect adds up if you take a lot of anti-squadron shots. My sense is that it would be best in a light squadron build (50 points or less) that aims to tie up the enemy fighters in ship range while using the ship battery to assist in the defense. I find that a lot of times, the results at the end of a round of squadron fire feature several squadrons at one health. If you've got two blue dice next turn and their boosted a bit with an upgrade, those kills add up. One of the keys of the game is how to use upgrades for small boosts that turn almost dead into a kill.

3. Quad Laser Turrets is statistically even better, but it requires that your opponent actually be shooting at you from the normal squadron attack distance (1). The problem is that in a meta where Rhymer-balls are so prominent, I just don't see it triggering often enough to justify it. Still, you might be able to put it on a Raider, use the Instigatortitle to "engage" fighters, and then inflict damage on them both through your AS attacks and the counter ability. That's unfortunately going to take a lot of practice with maneuvering so that you get it just right. In the end, it still may prove suboptimal. Your Raider is dead when it takes 6 damage, and most dedicated squadron builds can drop that kind of damage in a turn, even if you brace a couple of 2 damage to a single point. It also leaves your whole defense centered around the Instigator as the linch-pin. It may very well pop without firing a shot, and when it does, the remaining squadrons can move off and attack something else. What you really need is a good round of Instigator firing, plus a good round out of one other Raider, plus the dice from your ISD, or something like 4.85 damage per squadron, plus whatever counter does. If you've got Impetuous on the other Raider, then that single attack against an enemy squadron could turn out to be a kill.

There's some thoughts to work with. I hope it helps.

****! Some great insight! Thanks for posting that video too. Totally craps on ny idea. but i understand why now. Back to the drawing board!

Another good AS upgrade that is often overlooked is Ordnance Experts. I tend to use OE instead of Leading shots on my ISD1 builds for this reason.

1)Speed is a good defence against rebel fighter lists, not so much against imps ( but it still works). If you are going "no fighters" big slow ships are just meat for the grinder.....ensure your glads have engine techs and think about an all small ship list.

2) An all ship list vs a heavy bomber list is going to be a blood bath so be aggressive get in fast kill the carriers and try to table him before his bombers rip you list apart.

To be honest I'm not sure I would ever play a competitive list without some fighter cover. As even very minimal fighter cover paired with the right ship can make an impact on bombers, even if it's just to reduce their ability to concentrate against a key ship for a couple of rounds. This is all you need to gut the enemy if you play fast and aggressively

For your list: Instigator ( maybe with quad lasers and OE) 2 ties and a second raider ( maybe with OE, quad lasers) acting as a pinning/ hunter killer group. Round one both raiders take fighter tokens, then movement commands until you are ready to strike..... Your aim is to end the two ship activations with both ties having shot at and be engaged with bombers, instigator engaging ships and stoping your ties getting made heavy. And your second raider trying to obscure instigator from some bombers/fighters or side arcs of ships. You should if played well and with luck have just lost your ties. Instigator and the second raiders can now rip into the fighters around them ( crash stopping if needed). Next fighter activation they will be dead but you should have trashed his chance of killing your main ships which will have ripped his carriers apart ( maybe)......