the point is...

No the point is that MSRP hasn't gone up. I'm not sure how I can make that easier to understand.

My LGS can't manage a discount, because it's a little store a good 45 min's from the metro with a fairly small customer base. The owner actually works a second job to make ends meet, because he's a gamer and wants to own a game store.

Having a game store 20min's from my house is actually worth more to me then the difference in price from MM to the LGS.

So for me this change means nothing because I'm paying exactly the same I always was.

Come on this topic always starts fights. You knew what you did.

Again, good trolling sir.

1 - Disney is one of the worst companies in their treatment of employees. See articles were they fire good long term animators for no reason other than greeed, then make them train replacements for months and if they refuse no severance pay.

2 - However this is Asmodee simply getting more instant cash from already existing online sales with no effort. Those millions will go to CEO paychecks and to acquiring more of the gaming industry. Expect to see Asmodee announce more acquisitions of gaming companies.

3 - Truly weak minded nimrods believe the PR spin Asmodee is putting out that this will help local stores. Even after Asmodee now requjires stores to sign an agreement to not sell online.

Many Many stores sell both in person and online. This is in fact the age of the INTERNET and if you dont sell online your toast for most companies. Many stores broaden their reach to millions of gamers around the world through the Internet.

Asmodee doesn't care however if these new sales restrictions bankrupt many stores. Their CEO will get his bonus.

4 - Consumer behavior is and will always be dictated by consumers based on what we perceive to be BEST FOR US! 99% of people are not sitting around thinking how great this deal is. They are actually trying to figure out how to save even more money and get the best deals.

Thats is what will happen, Asmodee will make even m ore money because we will buy more online and they will get higher profit margins. Local stores get punched in the face. Thanks ANA.

All Dat.

Perhaps it's only semantics but...

Prices have not gone up. The discounts on some places have decreased, but the MSRP hasn't changed.

I think it is semantics as the real net effect is that alot of us will buy a helluva lot less FFG product. I love this game but FFG / Asmodee is being stupid. Do their margins increase on sales to the distribution companies like ACD? Nope...they still make the same.

All this does is make it harder for the customer who was inclined to buy metric craptons of their product be unable to do so at reasonable prices. I would NEVER have bought 3 slavers or 3 jumpmasters at MSRP.

Their focus on the LGS is irrational and may very well backfire.

Considering that FFG products are constantly running out of print … I would say they are still selling the faster than they can make them. Speaking of out of print, they should get the their fly casual and special modification books faster to their freaking distributors and/or LGSs. We keep waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting in the german speaking areas. There is certainly something wrong when a product is out since over a month and your store has still no idea when he can finally sell you the stuff, because his source has no idea either when they will get the goods. If it looks like less of a hazel to drive 8 hours to a friend, make a copy and drive home than you are definitely screwing up the supply chain.

Come on this topic always starts fights. You knew what you did.

Again, good trolling sir.

It's been rainy all day and some of it got into my lower back... GRR!!!

Even chewed an aspirin this afternoon.

Companies do not stay profitable long term by selling to current customers. In order to stay in business, you must attract new customers. Asmodee believes that LGS will bring in enough new customers to make up for decreased sales from folks like you and I.

edit: speling

Then Asmodee is on crack. The gamer pie is only so big. You aren't going to increase a player base by INCREASING the cost to get into the game -- which is effectively what they are doing by eliminating discount online distribution channels.

As if the target audience cares about 100 dollar more or less for their collection. What the group cares about is exposition in their regular store. It's not like my wife searched online for prices of games and decided to go with something which looked cheap, she did see cute little X-Wings and TIE-Fighters while browsing other stuff in one of ours FLGSs. They were out of the RPG book she wanted iirc, but they still got plenty of core boxes and we took one of those to test the game.

I mean sure, if ships would be cheaper, we would have bought more ships, but we would not have spend more money. Even at MRSP they are plenty of cheap, especially as you get with one core box and two ace expansions you get already without trouble 100 point lists to play.

Is here anyone who would honestly say that he does research store prices before picking up a game which has a sub $50 entry barrier? Active community so you have enough people to play with, maybe, a chick check what a competitive list cost? Well, maybe too, but those results do not get changed much either way, because even at MSRP you are way below $500 for even multiple of those lists.

I can't even comprehend that. Money is money. Money represents hours of my life. Who gives a **** what the category of the expenditure is? Would it be more upsetting if it were raising prices on meds?

Meds are fixed priced after the first year, they literally can't raise them on a whim and my insurance pays them anyway. ;-)

I still get what you mean, but we are talking here about a discount which was there to established the brand and a bonus which seems to be US specific as well. I don't thin that there was a 30% discount for online stores over here, and most local stores here sell online as well anyway, so the prices for online and offline are the same anyway. About 15% below recommend retail price in most stores at least in the stores I know.

If you only wanted one then it is fine Brah. But many of us want to have two or three of everything for STAR WARS EPIC Games .

For epic star wars games I have Age of Rebellion, and FFG can not print those books as fast as I can buy them. Apparrently they do not like money as much as you guys assume. ;-)

I still don't understand the nerve some people show in threads like these. 'Oh, I'm sorry Alex, Frank, and everyone else at FFG that makes this game I love, but F*** you. You're time, experience, and more importantly JOB SECURITY isn't worth me paying msrp on your game.' Is essentially how I read these arguments.

Ill pay what Im willing to pay and if you can't do business for that amount, see ya. There are plenty of great hobbies out there. I dont have to war game. Im sure Steam will love to have more of my money.

This is a good point, really it is. It just works both ways, because steam would love to see even more money from me, I already have dozen of great, but untouched games, because I rather spend my valuable time on X-Wing and other more fun things. Steam sales are great and I am not a believer to that "cheap prices devalue a product" - that is imho marketing bull, but what sales really can achieve is saturation. There is only so much demand for a product and if this demands gets satisfied for cheap than I as customer have free expendable budget for stuff outside of that product.

As mentioned, my steam lib is filled with more games than I care to play, I still pay full price from time to time for games I want to play now, but I did as well start to spend lots of money on kickstarters, cosmetics and other forms of donations to developers and well, X-Wing. Actually X-Wing literally replaced my league of legends spending and it will continue to do so most likely until I have one of each. After that point saturation is more or less achieved and I will start spending at least some of that money for something else, VR for example looks cool and VR sets should be more available at the end of the year anyway.

Raising prices will milk customers like me longer as long as we are happy enough with those prices.People who irrationally buy 30% more of each, just because the prices are 30% lower seem … unrealistic. People might indeed spend less because they consider the value proposition of X-Wing sub-par with other hobbies, but as long as they still are engaged by the game they most likely still spend enough to make this a good deal for FFG. Which sucks for the customer for sure, but most likely sucks not enough for us to justify a big fuss about it.

Let's put my personal story/opinion in play.

Online discounts incentivised me to purchase online so I did, this made me feel bad playing at the local store with stuff I did not get there so I did not play much in store. I personally made a decision to change to buying at my lgs and then I started playing more there and buying more there. Getting my friends to come play in tournaments and they started buying more.

From my own personal experience I can see that online discounts are bad for the game, no one wants to pay more but sometimes it's necessary to pay more. For the good of the community and long term stability. Lgs's give you more people to play against and no matter how cheap the game is from online retailers they won't sell products if people have no one to play with.

It never fails to amaze me the amount of people that will defend a corporation for trying to squeeze more money from a product without adding value.

As a consumer I apply more value to my money than I do FFG/Asmodee desire to make money. Ergo, I look for the deepest discount possible so I can get the most out of my hard earned ducketts.

I'm sorry that most FLGS's can't survive vs higher volume online retailers. But, it does seem like an outdated model for anything other than the social aspect of gaming. Capitalism is killing the game store, not online sellers. They're just competing the same as always. If a store cannot compete it gets shuttered.

My desire to get the most out of my money and FFG/Asmodee's desire to get as much of my money as they can, is at odds. I am going to do what's in my best interests, not the best interests of a store I don't play at or a corporation that is apparently intent on fleecing me.

For the folks that haven't seen the price go up on their end: I'm happy for you. But, that doesn't mean that because it doesn't effect you that isn't an issue for a fair amount of the player population that does in fact see a material difference.

Make no mistake friends, this is about money pure and simple. Asmodee wants more of yours. Full stop.

companies like profits, and one way to increase profits is to increase prices. what amazes me is not that, but the amount of people who defend said price increases or even deny their existence based on MSRP. I think the only thing I've ever bought at MSRP in xwing was a box of dice.

Not even those, my FLGS does not sell at MSRP ;-)

And you surely have a point about the MSRP, why those local stores in NA even sell at that price? But what as well is puzzling is why the online stores got so much better discounts in the first place and why FLGS can not sell online under Asmodée NA conditions?

I'm sorry that most FLGS's can't survive vs higher volume online retailers.

Keep in mind here that online stores in NA used to have much higher discounts from FFG than FLGSs for literally no reason. And I am still unable to find a NA online store who can sell international, which suggest that those discounts were bound to selling just in NA as well. That not a fair competition of online vs brick and mortar that looks like an intentional setup by FFG / Asmodée NA. Splitting online from brick and mortar retail seems odd in the first place as selling online and offline should be a default for most small retail businesses.

I'm sorry that most FLGS's can't survive vs higher volume online retailers.

Keep in mind here that online stores in NA used to have much higher discounts from FFG than FLGSs for literally no reason. And I am still unable to find a NA online store who can sell international, which suggest that those discounts were bound to selling just in NA as well. That not a fair competition of online vs brick and mortar that looks like an intentional setup by FFG / Asmodée NA. Splitting online from brick and mortar retail seems odd in the first place as selling online and offline should be a default for most small retail businesses.

Actually, they probably had a good reason for the bigger discounts. A lot of times, discounts are based on volume. And that is the issue, the big online stores will always be able to sell more online than a local store. That is an advantage a local store can't make up.

When this first came up on BGG, I saw someone post about the practice of local stores buying enough of a game to get the discount, and then using their ebay store to clear out what they couldn't sell. That just sounds like a dangerous business practice for the industry.

Geez everyone, reading this thread I would have thought FFG doubled or tripled the price of everything and killed your dog too. Are we all talking about the same thing? The discounts went from 25% off Msrp to 20%.... Is that really worth all this drama and talk of quitting x wing? I get that many of us want to get more, but we're talking about a 5% increase in price and even then only for those who buy exclusively online.

I think FFG have actually been pretty good about not raising their prices for their stuff. Maybe it's because I'm used to GW all these years, but FFG don't seem to be hiking prices up year over year over year. A small ship would cost about 30 bucks right now.

The only thing I really don't like about x wing is the way I feel pressured to buy ships I don't want for cards.

It never fails to amaze me the amount of people that will defend a corporation for trying to squeeze more money from a product without adding value.

As a consumer I apply more value to my money than I do FFG/Asmodee desire to make money. Ergo, I look for the deepest discount possible so I can get the most out of my hard earned ducketts.

I'm sorry that most FLGS's can't survive vs higher volume online retailers. But, it does seem like an outdated model for anything other than the social aspect of gaming. Capitalism is killing the game store, not online sellers. They're just competing the same as always. If a store cannot compete it gets shuttered.

My desire to get the most out of my money and FFG/Asmodee's desire to get as much of my money as they can, is at odds. I am going to do what's in my best interests, not the best interests of a store I don't play at or a corporation that is apparently intent on fleecing me.

For the folks that haven't seen the price go up on their end: I'm happy for you. But, that doesn't mean that because it doesn't effect you that isn't an issue for a fair amount of the player population that does in fact see a material difference.

Make no mistake friends, this is about money pure and simple. Asmodee wants more of yours. Full stop.

Yep. The irrational folks are the corporate shills and fanboys on this site who refuse to simply acknowledge this move is about money for Asmodee and not the lie that its helping FLGS.

The real argument isn't whether a 10% increase to me as customer is an issue its whether Asmodee is going to succeed in fleecing their customers the 10%.

All of the gaming industry is waiting watching and hoping they can rip us off the extra 10% themselves. Rip off is the word I use because the majority of people will not believe that paying extra money straight to the game company helps consumers but in reality only helps bonus checks for CEOs of large companies like Asmodee/FFG.

I get a kick out of those who say "there is no price increase, only a reduction in the discounts being offered." Well guess what? That IS still a price increase. Maybe the MSRP hasn't changed but what is MSRP really? It's just a number that a company will put on products that it sells and it may not even have a lot of thought put into it beyond "let's just say it should be sold at X." When you set an MSPR you ALWAYS set it higher than it needs to be as it is much easier to sell things at a "discount" than it is to boost prices higher than your MSRP.

With rounding you'll probably say the MSRP of a small expansion is $15. Now $10 is a 33% reduction in that but some people are apparently happy paying that $15 as well. What if the MSRP was instead set at $30 for a small expansion? Maybe some of you who are used to exorbitant prices would still pay it but if it was commonly sold at 66% off it may seem like an amazing deal although even selling it at 50% off would seem to some like deal despite being the old MSRP. As I understand it this is the way a number of luxury items are sold; they are routinely listed at having a VERY high normal price yet somehow often seem to be "on sale" with some pretty amazing discounts. They just never mention that even when they sell an item at 75% off the list price they are still making money on it because the actual cost is just 5% of the list price.

Ah, the old "if you pay MSRP, then you are chump" argument.

By the way, your argument is why Asmodee is concerned with the devaluation of boardgames that the internet sellers propagate.

There's a site I usually buy from I've recommended them to people in the past, they've raised their prices with this change.

The saving on imp vets from them is 25pence as a result I'm not going to order from them.

I don't owe anyone a living as a consumer my only obligation is to myself to find the best deal so i'll go wherever offers the deepest discount.

I'm already paying the equivalent of $20-25 for a small base ship. Online retailers here are largely in line with shop prices, high as they are. It's always a little irksome when people complain that they're paying a dollar or two more for a ship due to the discount changes, when we're paying almost twice the cost in the EU.

Whatever price you're paying, add about 40% to it, and you'll see the "outside-US" price the rest of us have to put up with.

I'm already paying the equivalent of $20-25 for a small base ship. Online retailers here are largely in line with shop prices, high as they are. It's always a little irksome when people complain that they're paying a dollar or two more for a ship due to the discount changes, when we're paying almost twice the cost in the EU.

Whatever price you're paying, add about 40% to it, and you'll see the "outside-US" price the rest of us have to put up with.

Exactly this. My response to this whole Asmodee thing has been identical since day one - I have zero sympathy for Americans complaining about having to pay a higher price when it's still lower in local terms than what everyone else in the world pays.

Come and complain when you're paying equal to or more than us, and then maybe you'll have a point. Until then, realise how good you still have it and stop whinging.

This doesn't screw everyone, but it specifically screws customers who don't have immediate access to an FLGS, or who who choose to game in their homes or at a club. The 'special interests' of the game stores are being catered to. That may improve some players lives and to be honest, if it strengthens the brand I am all for it. But if someone gives me a low price... I am going to take advantage!

As one of the Americans who used to enjoy the CSI and MM discounts, I can honestly say that the Asmodee (not Disney, so I'm confused by the implications leveled at them periodically in these threads) price change will have in impact on my purchases. It's not that I'm offended or outraged, but rather that in order to maintain some control of my budget, I set a fixed amount aside for my gaming budget, and it simply won't go as far as it used to. For me, that's fine. I already have a good selection of ships, so if the fleet continues to grow at a slower pace, I have plenty to play with.

"I must blame the mouse!"

As one of the Americans who used to enjoy the CSI and MM discounts, I can honestly say that the Asmodee (not Disney, so I'm confused by the implications leveled at them periodically in these threads) price change will have in impact on my purchases. It's not that I'm offended or outraged, but rather that in order to maintain some control of my budget, I set a fixed amount aside for my gaming budget, and it simply won't go as far as it used to. For me, that's fine. I already have a good selection of ships, so if the fleet continues to grow at a slower pace, I have plenty to play with.

Yeah it is fine if they slow down and wait for the new films to make new waves that go with the yearly Mouse-shows. The reason that I call on Mouse is because they do have some say and pull with FFG now. We all know the TFA coreset came out to go with the TFA film... cause Dat MOUSE.

It is cool, I will buy what I can when I can, like most of us. But some of the sourness we feel is coming from the fact that the glory days of our cool collecting is pretty much over now and it sucks.

"I must blame the mouse!"

DAT-a-tat-tat-a-MOUSE!!!

Essentially, X-wing has had a two-tiered pricing scheme: in-person purchases at a brick-and-mortar store are typically made at MSRP, and online purchases were made at approximately 66% of MSRP.

This led, rather predictably, to the idea among many consumers that the online price is the real or natural price for X-wing expansions, and that brick-and-mortar stores were effectively charging a 50% premium. So far, that's fine: FFG/Asmodee were making roughly the same margin either way, with the online retailers making up for the lower margin in volume.

The problem is that consumer perception of inflated prices at brick-and-mortar stores was driving customers away from those stores and to the heavily discounted online retailers for their purchases. That's a problem because no one demos the game online at Coolstuffinc. No one wanders by a game of X-wing being played at Miniature Market and asks questions about it. Amazon.com does not host any X-wing Organized Play events.

The deeply discounted online retailers serve FFG/Asmodee's existing customer base very well, if narrowly, but they don't grow that customer base. Brick-and-mortar stores do that, but they can't compete with the discount online guys. FFG doesn't really care who they sell to, as long as they get their margin, but they need the brick-and-mortar stores to stay in business and stay healthy in order for their business model to function--not just X-wing, but the entire business.

So FFG's options were to allow the online retailers to continue undercutting the brick-and-mortar stores, and by doing so eventually push themselves out of business, or step in and do something to push the online retailers at least further toward parity in pricing, if not all the way there. And FFG, especially post-merger, has a big enough slice of the hobby-gaming market to actually make a move like that and make it stick--so they did.

So yeah, especially for those who can't or won't buy from their FLGS, this is going to look like a substantial price hike. It is a price hike, because you're paying more for X-wing.

But the distinction people are trying to point out is that the difference between the online price and the brick-and-mortar price is what you pay to keep the lights on and somebody behind the counter at the FLGS. If you were hanging out and playing at an FLGS but buying your ships online, you were exploiting a loophole in the system at a direct and probably painful cost to the store.

If you ordered online but didn't play at an FLGS, that really sucks and I'm sorry. But the increase in price for you is, over the long term, about keeping FFG in business by keeping the doors open at those stores. FFG didn't make this move out of charity, but out of concern for their own long-term health.

Essentially, X-wing has had a two-tiered pricing scheme: in-person purchases at a brick-and-mortar store are typically made at MSRP, and online purchases were made at approximately 66% of MSRP.

This led, rather predictably, to the idea among many consumers that the online price is the real or natural price for X-wing expansions, and that brick-and-mortar stores were effectively charging a 50% premium. So far, that's fine: FFG/Asmodee were making roughly the same margin either way, with the online retailers making up for the lower margin in volume.

The problem is that consumer perception of inflated prices at brick-and-mortar stores was driving customers away from those stores and to the heavily discounted online retailers for their purchases. That's a problem because no one demos the game online at Coolstuffinc. No one wanders by a game of X-wing being played at Miniature Market and asks questions about it. Amazon.com does not host any X-wing Organized Play events.

The deeply discounted online retailers serve FFG/Asmodee's existing customer base very well, if narrowly, but they don't grow that customer base. Brick-and-mortar stores do that, but they can't compete with the discount online guys. FFG doesn't really care who they sell to, as long as they get their margin, but they need the brick-and-mortar stores to stay in business and stay healthy in order for their business model to function--not just X-wing, but the entire business.

So FFG's options were to allow the online retailers to continue undercutting the brick-and-mortar stores, and by doing so eventually push themselves out of business, or step in and do something to push the online retailers at least further toward parity in pricing, if not all the way there. And FFG, especially post-merger, has a big enough slice of the hobby-gaming market to actually make a move like that and make it stick--so they did.

So yeah, especially for those who can't or won't buy from their FLGS, this is going to look like a substantial price hike. It is a price hike, because you're paying more for X-wing.

But the distinction people are trying to point out is that the difference between the online price and the brick-and-mortar price is what you pay to keep the lights on and somebody behind the counter at the FLGS. If you were hanging out and playing at an FLGS but buying your ships online, you were exploiting a loophole in the system at a direct and probably painful cost to the store.

If you ordered online but didn't play at an FLGS, that really sucks and I'm sorry. But the increase in price for you is, over the long term, about keeping FFG in business by keeping the doors open at those stores. FFG didn't make this move out of charity, but out of concern for their own long-term health.

I am just going to point to this post every time this topic comes up.