First and most importantly stop using SMALL groups of minions, start using BIG groups. By far the best personal scale tank is a squad of 10+ Stormtroopers, and I mean by far. That's a wound pool of 50+ wounds, soaking 5 every hit. So your players 4 hits at 13 damage just barely managed to take out 3 of them... Guess what, their dice pool is still their peak AAPPP! It would take 2 solid attacks to bring them down to where most GM's start their Minion groups

A Nemesis is typically a glass cannon, just like most PC's they hit hard but go down super easy. You need to make them hard to get to and hard to hit.

There are serious consequences for using Auto-Fire on a regular basis, the authorities take a very unfavourable view of them and tend to give people carrying them a very hard time... Just saying.

Edit: Beaten to it by Desslok, but seriously anyone who is thinking minions have no place in a high powered game should try sending 3 groups of 10 of them at their PC's

While I totally agree with you, I can not miss the issue that sending groups of 15 was what out GM did. Planetary scale weapons and light sabers are amazing against those targets. Begs naturally the question why we could use those openly. ;-)

And the most dangerous enemy is the one who controls when, how and who. If players are constantly using heavy weapons than they not only get seen with those weapons everywhere and give enemies time to prepare for those weapons, but they might indeed get easily trapped by simply playing the local authorities against them. Usually you can not just shoot in a city with heavy weaponry and expect your ship waiting untouched at the port for you some hours later.

Also instead of the head first approach begin crafting scenarios where they are item restricted. There will certainly be no weapon, no armor zones, or various flavors and degrees. Social settings in black tie attire where a HBR is not going to cut it. High threat environments where stray shots are a very bad thing.

Also instead of the head first approach begin crafting scenarios where they are item restricted. There were certainly be no weapon, no armor zones, or various flavors and degrees. Social settings in black tie attire where a HBR is not going to cut it. High threat environments where stray shots are a very bad thing.

That's when they pull a "Once Upon a Time in Mexico" and hide a flame-thrower in their bass case...

That's when the pull a "Once Upon a Time in Mexico" and hide a flame-thrower in their bass case...

Hmm. So, they have a flamethrower inside the case for their fish? I wonder what the fish thinks of that?

Is it a bigmouth or a smallmouth bass?

Also instead of the head first approach begin crafting scenarios where they are item restricted. There were certainly be no weapon, no armor zones, or various flavors and degrees. Social settings in black tie attire where a HBR is not going to cut it. High threat environments where stray shots are a very bad thing.

That's when the pull a "Once Upon a Time in Mexico" and hide a flame-thrower in their bass case...

Than there is this hidden weapon scan on the entrance and about 20 minutes in the party the players start noticing that it got awful quite and empty. Then the commando unit ruins the party and tries to arrest the player with the flame thrower because they have some question about him and is set of tools he brought to this VIP event

Sounds like fun. Sounds as well like a good point to run and try something different later.

Ooh, Ooh, I totally forgot.

Glob Grenades!! So OP. Have your NPCs get the jump and let them roll of few of them into the center of your group.

BAMN!! PC out of the encounter! And best thing is that they are not dead, just... contained.

Or Even better!

You can use a modified grenade launcher that shoots glob grenades!!

Also instead of the head first approach begin crafting scenarios where they are item restricted. There were certainly be no weapon, no armor zones, or various flavors and degrees. Social settings in black tie attire where a HBR is not going to cut it. High threat environments where stray shots are a very bad thing.

That's when the pull a "Once Upon a Time in Mexico" and hide a flame-thrower in their bass case...

Than there is this hidden weapon scan on the entrance and about 20 minutes in the party the players start noticing that it got awful quite and empty. Then the commando unit ruins the party and tries to arrest the player with the flame thrower because they have some question about him and is set of tools he brought to this VIP event

Sounds like fun. Sounds as well like a good point to run and try something different later.

In the movie they are actually asked to play before being allowed in...of course their equipment is so awesome it also functions as entertainment gear...custom crafting rules anyone...?

In the movie they are actually asked to play before being allowed in...of course their equipment is so awesome it also functions as entertainment gear...custom crafting rules anyone...?

What kind of animal would put a flamethrower in a bass guitar? It would kill the tone!

If PCs get close enough the lowly stun grenade is often overlooked. Its Blast rating is pretty tough and can be an ugly hit to Strain on a good throw, especially if you can catch more than one PC.

The various dart weapons and toxins can be a real pain also. The Stealth Palm Shooter from the Hutt book can be an ugly surprise for that option. Gas grenades potentially as well.

Ooh, Ooh, I totally forgot.

Glob Grenades!! So OP. Have your NPCs get the jump and let them roll of few of them into the center of your group.

BAMN!! PC out of the encounter! And best thing is that they are not dead, just... contained.

Or Even better!

You can use a modified grenade launcher that shoots glob grenades!!

Glop Grenades are SOOOOOO 2015. All the cool kids are using the Multi Goo Gun these days.

As others have mentioned its sometimes very thematic to have an initiative NPC in the encounter, a good example would be in a public forum:

Setup: PC's have an NPC target, an important leader of some sort. That leader is making a public appearance and speaking to a large crowd, perhaps for Life Day...

The NPC Deli:

• The Figurehead politician, a good speaker but deceptive to the core and wouldn't trust his mother with $5, also cool as a cucumber.
• The Crowd, low stats, but all acting as a single minion group, with Vigilance as their only skill they don't pose much of a threat, but will notice things quickly
• The head of security, Perceptive and cunning, also a good shot with her pistol and gets the most out of her crew
• The guards, 6-8 packs of minions in groups of 3. Stun Batons and Carbines on stun
• The Riot Police, Squads of 10 Minions that arrive in vans on round 3(ish), Riot Shields, padded armour and stun batons
• The Snipers, 4 of them, Rivals at extreme range to the stage, great shots and highly Perceptive, also have elevation from being on rooftops

The crowd takes 2 turns to disperse after panic happens, for those rounds all Move maneuvers require 2 strain to perform and everyone in the crowd is considered engaged for the purposes of targeting them with ranged weapons.

In the above example the crowd react quickly to gunshot with their vigilance. while the Figurehead is the Cool guy. any Perception checks are handled by the snipers (i would only roll once for them, with a boost or 2 for their numbers). and when things go bad the head of security uses her leadership to control her teams.

Stop using minions. If your players are this effective in combat you need to switch to rivals and nemeses only.

We interrupt this post for an important message: minions can be VERY effective, even against high level characters. A group of 10 against one target can only shoot that one target, but it takes a while to whittle them down. In the meantime, they're rolling 5 yellows (potentially) against the target - which should be enough to make anyone's day unhappy. If you play them smart, minions can be extremely deadly.

This message brought to you by The Minion Anti-Defamation League.

I wouldn't dare disagree with the MADL; those guys have some serious clout (and the advantage of numbers - they travel in groups of 20).

My "issue", if I can call it that, with large minion groups (of the size that's required to challenge players at this level) is that you need so many of them that it gets a bit ridiculous, even for Star Wars. Either you have multiple groups of 10 minions, in which case you end up with your 4-6 players having massacred a couple of busloads of enemies, or you have fewer minions total but in a single large group, in which case the action economy gets messed up.

By all means, if your intent is for the players to feel awesome by mowing down a lot of minions that's great, but I prefer to keep those instances relatively rare. A group that leaves a trail of 30+ bodies per session is going to be the most wanted mass murderers in the galaxy pretty quickly. I feel that it's better to throw rivals at them instead. They're easier to customize with talents and skills, it's easier to justify them having advanced/modified equipment, and the action economy gets less scewered in the players' favour.

Stop using minions. If your players are this effective in combat you need to switch to rivals and nemeses only.

We interrupt this post for an important message: minions can be VERY effective, even against high level characters. A group of 10 against one target can only shoot that one target, but it takes a while to whittle them down. In the meantime, they're rolling 5 yellows (potentially) against the target - which should be enough to make anyone's day unhappy. If you play them smart, minions can be extremely deadly.

This message brought to you by The Minion Anti-Defamation League.

I wouldn't dare disagree with the MADL; those guys have some serious clout (and the advantage of numbers - they travel in groups of 20).

My "issue", if I can call it that, with large minion groups (of the size that's required to challenge players at this level) is that you need so many of them that it gets a bit ridiculous, even for Star Wars. Either you have multiple groups of 10 minions, in which case you end up with your 4-6 players having massacred a couple of busloads of enemies, or you have fewer minions total but in a single large group, in which case the action economy gets messed up.

By all means, if your intent is for the players to feel awesome by mowing down a lot of minions that's great, but I prefer to keep those instances relatively rare. A group that leaves a trail of 30+ bodies per session is going to be the most wanted mass murderers in the galaxy pretty quickly. I feel that it's better to throw rivals at them instead. They're easier to customize with talents and skills, it's easier to justify them having advanced/modified equipment, and the action economy gets less scewered in the players' favour.

I'm not sure how defeating tons of facelooks mooks isn't in the spirit of Star Wars? We see the heroes mow down dozens upon dozens of minions all the time. From the movies, to the cartoons, to the books. Seriously, every action scene in the movies is roughly as follows:

4-5 Heroes vs: Everyone else on screen.

And given the number of extras in some of those scenes, that easily makes it 10+ enemies, sometimes 20+. So yeah, I'm not sure how 1) Throwing 20+ minions against the heroes is out of spirit of Star Wars, or 2) How them beating said enemy mooks is also out of character.

OT: As others have mentioned, negative dice is always a good thing, but also don't forget to do things with your Threat and Despair. Specifically things like:

1. Your weapon runs out of ammo.

2. Your weapon breaks/over heats

3. You drop your weapon.

These are all perfectly viable uses for threat/despair, even specifically mentioned in the books. Doing this to your party from time to time, will :

1. Increase the time it takes to kill the minions, as they have to spend actions/maneuvers to retrieve/reload their weapons.

2. Reduce damage being tossed around each round, as the Uber-Gun is now broken, and can't be used until repaired.

3. Force them to use alternate forms of combat to solve the issue. Like their secondary, and not as good weapon.

My "issue", if I can call it that, with large minion groups (of the size that's required to challenge players at this level) is that you need so many of them that it gets a bit ridiculous, even for Star Wars. Either you have multiple groups of 10 minions, in which case you end up with your 4-6 players having massacred a couple of busloads of enemies, or you have fewer minions total but in a single large group, in which case the action economy gets messed up.

With my PCs at 400+ XP each and a nice cache of gear, I never had to have more than 5-6 minions in a group. One gets to a point where you reach a dice rolling threshold, and being a keen sort with that in mind I try to just add another minion group. Of course players that build characters that mow things down are usually enjoying themselves and I'm able to abide. How a PC is built informs how the player has fun, so why not let them leave a trail of bodies?

I shudder to think of having multiple 10-minion groups required to challenge PCs. If that's what it really takes, then imposing time limits on encounters and making combat the secondary (or tertiary!) focus might be a better technique for providing a challenge.

Gas grenades potentially as well.

A.K.A: Dioxis Grenade. From someone who has it on Battlefront, that thing can be devestating in the singleplayer/co-op missions against stormies.

This a great thread.

For me I always like to consider the larger world. You may be on the fringes but if lots of troopers start going down it eventually shows up on some Staff General's human resources data. If the party starts being a one squad insurgency turning a corner of the Empire into a Fallujah then eventually they are going to attract a surge.

"You want Star Destroyers? 'Cause that's how you get Star Destroyers!"

If small squads always get killed they are not going to send small squads any more. They are likely going to send AFVs. If the players become very high profile then it will certainly have a narrative cost.

"Clearly you must have meant Felucia, and yeah that was a real mess, seperatist everywhere and Tano disobeying orders did not help either. If the Rebels want Star Destroyers they for sure get them, we got Felucia on the second try as well … even when poor Tano gone mia after the battle. Guess we should bring not only star destroyer, but some commandos as well."

I think I got carried away. But definitely, heavy gear on public display means serve reactions from the empire. Not that I personally dislike destroying star destroyers, it's such a warm and fuzzy feeling of accomplishment for the Alliance when one goes down, so if the group is ready to escalate the conflict then there is nothing wrong with bringing the big guns to motivate the empire to raise the stakes as well. If the group is not ready for this, I would as GM t least warn them from the risks.

Depending on the situation, your nemesis should have adversary 3 or more plus some armor putting in a bunch of setbacks, your minions should also have armor and probably tactical shields adding setbacks, and you should either be using large minion groups or a large number of single minions (when they're not in groups you can'take kill more than one minion per hit except with autofire but still with 30 individual minions on the board and them taking out 2 or 3 minions per hit you've got several rounds... and with all the black dice they're throwing out from armor and shields and cover getting the advantage to activate autofire is not assured