I'm now getting to the point in my game where the characters could be finding a proper crystal for their light sabers.

I was wondering once this situation happens how to I deal with them as players without making everything ridiculous.

I know a lot of minions will just fall like there is no tomorrow but I want to still keep it cinematic and the feel without them suddenly thinking they have become gods

Lightsabers don't increase their Soak, Wound Threshold or Strain Threshold... They still go down easy if you try. I suggest using range to slow them down, multiple minion groups spread out, stun grenades, and if you must then skilled rivals/nemesis with adversary 2-3. The easiest thing to do is have some reinforcements in the wings, if the encounter is going too easily then flip a Destiny Point and bring them in. If it's looking like a TPKo then back off and don't introduce reinforcements. And remember most people don't fight to the death.

Yeah, initially, in my mind, lightsabers won't be that big of athing, like in Saga Edition, they weren't. Breach is great, except that many things in Star Wars go "Armor? That's quaint. Wait, what? Wear armor? Why?" Take out Darth Vader, Boba Fett, and the Storm Troopers; now, how many things in Star Wars really wear armor? Please don't hit me with a little laundry list, as yeah, there might be a few, but so many more things don't, from thugs and criminal figures, to other Jedi (actually against their rules, most of the time), to the politicians, the police, and what have you. Most "this isn't a fight with Storm Troopers" encounters, you probably won't be fighting armored foes. Yeah, lightsabers cut through stuff, too, but there were other ways to open doors. Damage wise, F&D lightsabers seem pretty reasonable, compared to other player weapons, and certainly against the superior versions of lightsabers, from Age, and Edge. It just doesn't seem, too me, that they should be too ridiculous, and using them will advertise to every being exactly what they are, even if they really aren't.

In my opinion, one of the Rebellion's greatest advantages is, even when they are pissing off the Empire, the Empire doesn't take them seriously, or allocate ALL the resources they could to dealing with it. No matter what the Rebellion can accomplish, the Empire doesn't see them as true threat to its existence, merely as a nuisance, to be swatted at, when seen. Once Force-users, or certainly "real Jedi" become a part, then the Emperor is angry, and Inquisitors, maybe even Vader, three times the ships, and special weapons, specifically designed to counter the Force, the lightsaber, or what have you, are set loose from their vaults, and the galaxy sees what the Empire can really do. When your players use lightsabers, the most iconic "Jedi thing", to most civilians, it's only a matter of time before some of them, most civilians actually supporting the Empire, report the sighting, and then the Empire comes looking. If they aren't part of the Rebellion, then that might just be even worse, as they won't have the safety net backing them up.

Mechanically, you can always wrap major villains with minions using the Squad rules from the AoR GM Kit to give them ablative armor against crazy lightsaber/anything hits.... and it has great flavor it you actually roleplay it and do it right, as the villain has rallied his/her best to their side and you have to cut through them to get to their leader. That's all my tired brain will allow, advice-wise, that hasn't already been suggested.

thank you everyone

Another thing is introduce targets with Defense, and other negative dice. Basically, damage mitigation is pointless against lightsabers. Unless the enemy has 11+ Soak, it might as well be zero. But, the more negative dice you can stack up against them, the more actual difficulty you will be throwing against them. So give them setback die due to environment, setback die due to Defense rating. Pit them against Force users with a fully upgraded Sense, or just with Adversary 2-3. Negative dice is your best way to give them an actual challenge. Now, I'm not saying stack the deck against them to fail, far from it. But if you want them to have a hard time with an NPC, it should be a Rival/Nemesis. That's the whole point of those classifications after all, and those types by default, are likely to have some Adversary ranks to them.

Sure, if they actually hit the target, they're going to significantly hurt him with each hit, seeing as they will always do full damage. But they will be less likely to always hit, if you add more negative dice to their attack pools.

In the movies, the only people the Jedi really had problems with, were Named NPC's. Like Darth Maul/Vader, Jango Fett, etc. The nameless mooks, they plowed through with zero difficulty. And that's how it should be. The named people though, yeah, they should be tougher, and take longer and longer to actually hit. That's accomplished by negative dice.

Or, let them kill nameless mooks, even rivals and/or a small nemesis. Really get it in there that lightsabers are awesome, and they're awesome. Then throw in a character with ways to really deal with them - lots of Parry, Dodge/Side Step/etc. Strain recovery, if you can. Maybe even that feature they may have just made up for a pre-written adventure, "Practiced Resistance: Upgrade the difficulty of Force checks targeting Nemesis once". Cortosis gauntlets, which can shut down their lightsabers. Yes, Adversary, but also nameable tools that can take away their awesome.

Send the message: you've transcended what you were before, and that's really cool. But there's really cool stuff here on your level that is going to take notice of you, now. It gives a real sense of an expanding world! If you do it while upping the impact their characters have during their adventures, it makes it seem like they've stepped out a sheltered, hidden world where they're trying to survive and gain strength into this wide-open space with big consequences and big enemies.

I did that to my players... Conflict was rarer, enemies were cool but their direct effect on events was smaller. They had a lot of XP, lightsabers, had just gotten the means to really use them... lots of Force powers, most at FR 2+. Then I threw the Inquisitor at them, destroyed a village they'd come to love using her forces, and said "now things get serious", then sent them on their way to Chronicles of the Gatekeeper and an overall quest to be able to match the threats that would come for them now that they were "like Jedi". As long as you're not, like, mean about and it serves the story, it can be cool to ratchet things up.

Another thing is introduce targets with Defense, and other negative dice. Basically, damage mitigation is pointless against lightsabers. Unless the enemy has 11+ Soak, it might as well be zero.

Also note that any characters without lightsabers will feel useless in a battle with enemies with high soak values.

Do you want off-topic table talk? Because that's how you get off-topic table talk.

off topic still helps my group consists of one force user and 4 non force users so trying to find a balance is always going to help

Another thing is introduce targets with Defense, and other negative dice. Basically, damage mitigation is pointless against lightsabers. Unless the enemy has 11+ Soak, it might as well be zero.

Also note that any characters without lightsabers will feel useless in a battle with enemies with high soak values.

Do you want off-topic table talk? Because that's how you get off-topic table talk.

That's a good point. Assuming only 1 person has a lightsaber, then having a high soak target will basically make them never do damage. In the original post, the verbage made me think the party was mostly lightsaber users? But apparently it's just 1 guy with a saber. That's much easier to handle. If the entire party is combat focused, then having an enemy with high soak is an especially bad idea. So yeah, still, add more negative dice regardless. It makes the target harder to hit for everyone, but if they do hit, they will still do decent damage in most cases.

Or, let them kill nameless mooks, even rivals and/or a small nemesis. Really get it in there that lightsabers are awesome, and they're awesome. Then throw in a character with ways to really deal with them - lots of Parry, Dodge/Side Step/etc. Strain recovery, if you can. Maybe even that feature they may have just made up for a pre-written adventure, "Practiced Resistance: Upgrade the difficulty of Force checks targeting Nemesis once". Cortosis gauntlets, which can shut down their lightsabers. Yes, Adversary, but also nameable tools that can take away their awesome.

Send the message: you've transcended what you were before, and that's really cool. But there's really cool stuff here on your level that is going to take notice of you, now. It gives a real sense of an expanding world! If you do it while upping the impact their characters have during their adventures, it makes it seem like they've stepped out a sheltered, hidden world where they're trying to survive and gain strength into this wide-open space with big consequences and big enemies.

I did that to my players... Conflict was rarer, enemies were cool but their direct effect on events was smaller. They had a lot of XP, lightsabers, had just gotten the means to really use them... lots of Force powers, most at FR 2+. Then I threw the Inquisitor at them, destroyed a village they'd come to love using her forces, and said "now things get serious", then sent them on their way to Chronicles of the Gatekeeper and an overall quest to be able to match the threats that would come for them now that they were "like Jedi". As long as you're not, like, mean about and it serves the story, it can be cool to ratchet things up.

I wouldn't let them kill a "low level nemesis" easily. That kind of seems contrary to the point of a Nemesis. A Rival, sure, but a Nemesis, by design, is supposed to be a single NPC, that is equal to or better than the entire party, as far as threat assessment goes. To actually tell the party "This is a Nemesis", and then have the NPC go down like a chump, sort of lessens the threat and menace that a Nemesis should invoke in your players.

Toss a couple Rivals at them, which should be equal to a single PC in difficulty, and let them put them down, then bring out that "Oh crap!" NPC, who torches their village and breathes in the smoke from the burning corpses while laughing, and let them freak out.

I wouldn't let them kill a "low level nemesis" easily. That kind of seems contrary to the point of a Nemesis. A Rival, sure, but a Nemesis, by design, is supposed to be a single NPC, that is equal to or better than the entire party, as far as threat assessment goes. To actually tell the party "This is a Nemesis", and then have the NPC go down like a chump, sort of lessens the threat and menace that a Nemesis should invoke in your players.

Perhaps it's because I'm a bit liberal with my throwing out of XP, or my players are pretty smart about what tools of theirs are effective, but I have never found a Nemesis to be "equal to or better than the entire party". Even the Inquisitor almost folded, and probably would have, had she not sprung the "look behind you, the rest of my Stormtroopers are slaughtering your civilians!" trap. And she had been going twice per round, as Inquisitors and Big Bads are wont to do. And she had groups of Stormtrooper minions, some with repeating blasters, as well as two captains backing her up. Again, maybe I do something wrong with encounter design... I talk a big game, but I'm honestly a novice.

That said, a Chiss Mercenary, who is a Nemesis, will fold in one good round with a group of 5 PCs and modded lightsabers. Yes, at a Ranged Heavy pool of YYYG, Quick Strike 2, and Lethal Blows 2, he can probably take one, maybe two PCs out with him before he goes... but he probably won't survive to see that stimpack. It won't happen, even with Adversary 2. Back him up with two rivals, and the party can still win.

What I'm saying is you throw them something like that - or even the Intelligence Agent from Age of Rebellion - something they look at and say, "huh, that would scare most people". Then throw them something that would scare them. Just because a Nemesis no longer challenges the party doesn't mean its statblock is useless.

I wouldn't let them kill a "low level nemesis" easily. That kind of seems contrary to the point of a Nemesis. A Rival, sure, but a Nemesis, by design, is supposed to be a single NPC, that is equal to or better than the entire party, as far as threat assessment goes. To actually tell the party "This is a Nemesis", and then have the NPC go down like a chump, sort of lessens the threat and menace that a Nemesis should invoke in your players.

Perhaps it's because I'm a bit liberal with my throwing out of XP, or my players are pretty smart about what tools of theirs are effective, but I have never found a Nemesis to be "equal to or better than the entire party". Even the Inquisitor almost folded, and probably would have, had she not sprung the "look behind you, the rest of my Stormtroopers are slaughtering your civilians!" trap. And she had been going twice per round, as Inquisitors and Big Bads are wont to do. And she had groups of Stormtrooper minions, some with repeating blasters, as well as two captains backing her up. Again, maybe I do something wrong with encounter design... I talk a big game, but I'm honestly a novice.

That said, a Chiss Mercenary, who is a Nemesis, will fold in one good round with a group of 5 PCs and modded lightsabers. Yes, at a Ranged Heavy pool of YYYG, Quick Strike 2, and Lethal Blows 2, he can probably take one, maybe two PCs out with him before he goes... but he probably won't survive to see that stimpack. It won't happen, even with Adversary 2. Back him up with two rivals, and the party can still win.

What I'm saying is you throw them something like that - or even the Intelligence Agent from Age of Rebellion - something they look at and say, "huh, that would scare most people". Then throw them something that would scare them. Just because a Nemesis no longer challenges the party doesn't mean its statblock is useless.

Probably have to consider the XP value of your party? A Nemesis that is a terror to a starting XP party, isn't going to be the same as one for a "Knight Level XP" party or higher. So yeah, I would bet it's probably "you under powered your Nemesis". I've done something similar, but in the opposite direction. First time GMing it with my friends, decided I'd toss a few Rivals at them, to see how they managed. Supposed to be an "equal' threat right?...right?....why is the Wookie bleeding out on the floor with 2 critical wounds by round 1?

I think the trick, is to assume an average amount of damage that the party can effectively dish out each round to your Nemesis, and then add in stuff to mitigate that down. Soak, armor, lots of negative dice to reduce attack effectiveness, talents to mitigate the damage, like Parry and Reflect, etc. And then of course, the ever useful GM tool, fudge the results behind the screen. He didn't just have 14 wound, he had 28 wound! Ooooh! so dangerous! *ignore Nemesis should be bleeding out at this point before he finished his Evil Monologue*

I think the trick, is to assume an average amount of damage that the party can effectively dish out each round to your Nemesis, and then add in stuff to mitigate that down. Soak, armor, lots of negative dice to reduce attack effectiveness, talents to mitigate the damage, like Parry and Reflect, etc. And then of course, the ever useful GM tool, fudge the results behind the screen. He didn't just have 14 wound, he had 28 wound! Ooooh! so dangerous! *ignore Nemesis should be bleeding out at this point before he finished his Evil Monologue*

Best way to GM. And I get that... maybe you shouldn't ever take away that nervous feeling when the GM says "he has a strain threshold!" But I also think it would be fun to throw a nemesis at them that scared their pants off before they got lightsabers and let them take it down. "Wow," they think, "these glowsticks make me unbeatable! That ISB Agent is toast!" Then show them enemies that can deal with their glowsticks. That way, instead of a constant level of challenge, you show them how easy the game could be if the world didn't step up to meet the challenge they throw at it... they can appreciate that they're amazingly strong, without any of the negative side effects of "oh no my villain!"

Again, that's just a preference thing. If you want to make sure all your Nemesis characters are equal to or stronger than the party, that's how you play and it certainly has its own perks. I, the Not Nice At All GM, like to let my characters wallow in how powerful they've become before showing them that I have things just as strong. Really, anything with WT less than high 20s or 30s and only Adversary 1/2 to defend it will die to lightsabers. A lot of early Nemesis characters rely on high soak, maybe 5-7, that can stymie even modded blaster rifles and basically negate blast of most grenades.

Speaking of, an back on topic:

Throw a Nemesis at the players that could be defeated easily with lightsabers, but there is some repercussion to using them, making what would be an easy fight difficult. For example, that Chiss Mercenary or Pirate Captain are absolutely brutal if they have staying power... my players, for some unknown reason, refused to reveal to the pirates they were killing on the pirate's ship with no surveillance that they were Force users and would not take out their lightsabers, even though I designed it to be a "look how powerful you are now that you have lightsabers, don't you wish you had a lightsaber spec" prelude to the adventure where they found their lightsaber trainer. So instead of cutting him and his pirates down in a difficult but manageable fight, they shot at him with his 20 wounds and 5 soak and hordes of weak minions, failing to kill him quickly and being slaughtered by his vibro-ax.

Then I throw an Inquisitor and a bunch of 'troopers at them, and they lop off her arm willy-nilly.

Another thing is introduce targets with Defense, and other negative dice. Basically, damage mitigation is pointless against lightsabers. Unless the enemy has 11+ Soak, it might as well be zero.

Also note that any characters without lightsabers will feel useless in a battle with enemies with high soak values.

Do you want off-topic table talk? Because that's how you get off-topic table talk.

In a battle between Wedge Antilles and Luke Skywalker my money would be always on Wedge. Try to reflect Quad-Laser Cannons. ;-)

And Luke as Star Fighter Ace and Pilot is on the worst match ups for Wedge, maybe only second to Vader and Corran Horn from all the Force Users Shown.

Light sabers are cool, light sabers are so cool that they actually even do something about AT-STs and when they are good even about AT-ATs. But light sabers are still personal scale weapons, light sabers are still melee weapons and light sabers do not protect you against weapons with blast either. Furthermore is reflect not free, it costs xp and it still causes strain when you use it. There is a very good reason why order 66 worked nearly flawlessly. Numbers, Gear, skill can all overcome the abilities of a light saber wielding force-user. And if you combine them all even the best of them.

Don't forget that whipping out a lightsaber in front of witnesses should add about 5 obligation to the party each time. Call it a doom clock. When that obligation is rolled, Vader shows up. It should be a palpable decision to basically say "I am a Jedi!" because the Empire knows that they are bad news and will spend considerable assets to remove the issue.

Don't forget that whipping out a lightsaber in front of witnesses should add about 5 obligation to the party each time. Call it a doom clock. When that obligation is rolled, Vader shows up. It should be a palpable decision to basically say "I am a Jedi!" because the Empire knows that they are bad news and will spend considerable assets to remove the issue.

I've been looking for a way to incorporate one of the other mechanics in my F&D game (since my nascent-Jedi tend to act a little more like smugglers anyhow) and this is the best thing I've ever seen. I also wanted that feeling Rebels has where they are constantly harassed by the Inquisitors but seemingly at random or out of the blue. Anything the players are doing can be interrupted by sudden Imperial inference, rather than just the semi-scripted stuff I have planned.