When a card effect instructs you to perform an attack twice, it means: “After you perform this attack for the first time, perform another attack against the same target using this weapon.” When performing the second attack, the weapon and target are not declared again as they remain the same, and any cost for the attacks is not paid again.

Because these effects (just Cluster Missiles and TLT currently) now use the language of "After you perform this attack", does that introduce simultaneous timing with other "After you perform an attack" and "After defending" abilities?

Previously the assumption was that any of those abilities would be resolved prior to the second attack. If the timing is the same then not only does that allow the attacker (with initiative) to perform both attacks prior to the defender using "After defending" abilities, but it should allow them to perform the second attack prior to using other "After you perform an attack" abilities, without giving up the opportunity to use them (using them twice after the second attack).

The Vader (crew) FAQ entry suggests that additional attacks preclude using any more "After you perform an attack" abilities (i.e. if you want to use those abilities, it has to be before the second attack), but there's been cases in the past where an FAQ entry is a specific exception to the normal sequence of events. And to take that a step further, it could mean that a defender without initiative would only get to trigger "After defending" abilities once when attacked multiple times (and perhaps introducing a case where Dengar could deny "After you perform an attack" abilities all together).

Treating each attack as a separate attack with "after attacking" and "after defending" results being resolved before moving onto the next attack would seem to be a cleaner way to handle things.

Re-reading the new Rudor entry:

If the player controlling Valen Rudor has initiative and uses Valen Rudor’s ability to move (such as from a boost or barrel roll action), if the attacker has the ability to perform another attack (such as from Cluster Missiles or Gunner), range is measured and firing arc is checked again. This can prevent the attacker from performing the second attack.

The mention of initiative in relation to Rudor's ability and Cluster Missiles makes it pretty clear that the second attack timing is now the same as other "After you perform an attack" and "After defending" abilities.

So I guess the big question that's still looming is if (based on Vader's entry) performing an attack prevents any additional "After you perform an attack" abilities from being triggered by the first attack? (And would it block "After defending" abilities from triggering off of the first attack if the attacker has initiative?)

OR

Are additional attacks nested within the "After you perform an attack" timing window? (Making Vader the exception, not the rule.)

Re-reading the new Rudor entry:

If the player controlling Valen Rudor has initiative and uses Valen Rudor’s ability to move (such as from a boost or barrel roll action), if the attacker has the ability to perform another attack (such as from Cluster Missiles or Gunner), range is measured and firing arc is checked again. This can prevent the attacker from performing the second attack.

The mention of initiative in relation to Rudor's ability and Cluster Missiles makes it pretty clear that the second attack timing is now the same as other "After you perform an attack" and "After defending" abilities.

So I guess the big question that's still looming is if (based on Vader's entry) performing an attack prevents any additional "After you perform an attack" abilities from being triggered by the first attack? (And would it block "After defending" abilities from triggering off of the first attack if the attacker has initiative?)

OR

Are additional attacks nested within the "After you perform an attack" timing window? (Making Vader the exception, not the rule.)

I don't think that they would stop it unless the ship with the effect is destroyed during the second attack. The ability was still triggered twice by different opportunities. I do think that you would end up resolving all of the effects from the second attack before you resolve the next effect from the first attack.

I think you're correct. If the player controlling Valen Rudor is attacked by a Twin Laser Turret and does not have initiative, I think the sequence is:

1. Twin Laser Attack 1
   1. Valen Rudor and Twin Laser Attack 2 both trigger.
   2. Twin Laser Attack 2 resolves (controlling player has initiative).
      1. Valen Rudor triggers.
      2. Valen Rudor performs free action.
   3. Valen Rudor performs free action.

Because of the precedent set by Dauntless + PtL and other multi-stress combined effects, I think Valen's second free action is actually taken first; more deeply nested effects seem to resolve first.

1. Twin Laser Attack 1
   1. Valen Rudor and Twin Laser Attack 2 both trigger.
   2. Twin Laser Attack 2 resolves (controlling player has initiative).
      1. Valen Rudor triggers.
      2. Valen Rudor performs free action.
   3. Valen Rudor performs free action.

And supposedly Vader crew was ruled to have a set order so we didn't get these complex "stack"-like situations...

1. Twin Laser Attack 1
   1. Valen Rudor and Twin Laser Attack 2 both trigger.
   2. Twin Laser Attack 2 resolves (controlling player has initiative).
      1. Valen Rudor triggers.
      2. Valen Rudor performs free action.
   3. Valen Rudor performs free action.

And supposedly Vader crew was ruled to have a set order so we didn't get these complex "stack"-like situations...

Indeed.

And this implies that Vader crew (whose FAQ hasn't changed) now has a DIFFERENT resolution than other things with the same trigger.

Sigh.

I don't understand your interpretation, the attacks do not stack do they?

When you attack declare a defender and pay costs. Then you attack (roll dice) once completely, plus handle all the stuff that goes along with that. Then you get another chance to attack once completely. The only difference is that the choice of defender and cost has already been taken care of, you just roll dice again and handle all the stuff that goes along with that.

The way I read it the steps are the same for these two completely separate attacks. Any "After defending" should apply to both attacks separately.

If any card from the FAQ goes away from this rule then that is OK as well, but otherwise there should be no difference from today?

Archie

Archie, the FAQ has gained a new section quoted in the top post that makes the second attack stack.

I know that the FAQ has a clarification about "Perform this attack twice". And I read it like that, a clarification.

I also know English is not my first language but I definitely do not read it like anything else except; two separate attacks where the second attack cannot change target nor any additional costs needed. Both attacks are fully completed.

So which part of the sentence tells you (or me) that there is stacking going on?

What am I missing?

Archie

Archie - in the new FAQ for Valen Rudor it states that if you have initiative you may move to evade a second attack from Clusters or TLT.

So if the other player has initiative, then Valen has to wait until after a second attack to trigger.

Thanks, that's what I missed.

And yes, even though it adds more initiate thinking it is still logical. The one with initiative does his/her effect first.

Archie