I keep seeing people complaining that tie Defenders never see play. Now I don't play competitively, but I see them quite often. They are a friend of mine's favorite ships. Yes, their movements are easy to predict because Defender players love that white K turn but overall that K turn makes their dial pretty darn good. I see em teamed up with Soontir Fel often and also see Tripple Defender lists going around.

They are as resilient as nearly any other ship out there. Their damage is great and those nasty cannon upgrades make them especially scary at any range.

Yes, you are overreacting.

More tanky than an A-Wing? A wings have access to autothrusters, plus native boost, plus native evade, plus 2 EPTs. In order to gain the evade token, Defenders have to renounce to more than half their dial, or its total, absolute awesome defense is... A simple focus token.

More damage than Title Y-wings? Please, even you have surely realized than defender's double-attack option involves cannons that only do 1 capped damage, or no damage at all. I know that you had to make an argument and blah blah blah, but still...

But A-Wings have that pesky 2 dice attack which means whether they survive and fire every turn, their effect on the game will always be quite limited.

And BTL Y-Wings are restricted to turrets which with the exception of the TLT are limited to range 2 or less. Tie defenders have that 3 dice base attack which ensures the base attack you make with the defender will hurt. Unlike that of the Y-Wing. And cannons are MORE effective at range three rather than useless like most turrets. Plus Tie defenders have that white Koiogron turn which means even if fighting a stress Hog, they will outmaneuver it and at some point will likely end up behind it gunning it down with impunity.

The thought of the already fearsome Tie defender throwing out stress, Ion tokens or tractor beams is a pretty scary thought while hitting you for 3 or 4 dice a turn is a very scary thought....

O what wonders this modern age has delivered us, that a friggin' PS 5 TIE Defender pilot is called "power creep" and "game breaking" with an apparent straight face.

Seriously though. If I never hear the phrase "power creep" again I'll die a happy man.

The thought of the already fearsome Tie defender throwing out stress, Ion tokens or tractor beams is a pretty scary thought while hitting you for 3 or 4 dice a turn is a very scary thought....

* - citation needed. Not you, Biophysical.

TIE Defender was the worst TIE. Its almost unplayable currently because it costs ~10pts more than it should compared to other ships of similar stats. 3hp 3shield 3agi is not that hard to get through, its just enough to prevent 1shotting it. Mine usually dies either in 2-3 volleys or never dies because my green dice are begging to not get hit by a hammer today.

I admit the Ryad pilot skill miiight be a little much imo but the title cards definitely are not a power creep. It brings defenders to perhaps slightly better than your average TIE but theyre still pricy enough to be unable to spam them. You can field 2, but its not going to be as amazing as alot of 2ship lists especially involving large ships.

TIE Defender was the worst TIE. Its almost unplayable currently because it costs ~10pts more than it should compared to other ships of similar stats. 3hp 3shield 3agi is not that hard to get through, its just enough to prevent 1shotting it. Mine usually dies either in 2-3 volleys or never dies because my green dice are begging to not get hit by a hammer today.

I admit the Ryad pilot skill miiight be a little much imo but the title cards definitely are not a power creep. It brings defenders to perhaps slightly better than your average TIE but theyre still pricy enough to be unable to spam them. You can field 2, but its not going to be as amazing as alot of 2ship lists especially involving large ships.

I'm a fan of both new titles

Notice how the Ham is try'n to over-shine the Bacon?

**** Dat Ham!!!

Is it? I don't see any ham... Or Canadian bacon for that matter...

Triple Toilet seats is just another stupid anomaly that will pass as a fad when the kids who don't like to think go and find something else to exploit.

So a list where you not only need to keep the opponent in arc, but must do so at PS3 is a list where you 'don't need to think'?

What exactly is a list where you 'need to think' in your view?

Is it? I don't see any ham... Or Canadian bacon for that matter...

See what I mean...?

NERF DA HAMS!!!

Is it? I don't see any ham... Or Canadian bacon for that matter...

Canadian Bacon is 50% Canadian and 50% Lies.

And really why is there ham there at all? It is taking up perfectly good bacon space.

You will only ever face three defenders, and they all have comparatively low PS so they can be easily outmaneuvered.

I do agree though, recent releases have vastly overshadowed the earlier offerings.

Defenders ARE supposed to be the best fighters in the Galacy though

Uhm you can use 3 PS 8 defenders or 3 PS 7 defenders and besides while the defender is supposed to be the best fighter it actually never surpassed the TIE/AD Avenger, the better agility and sufficient weapons and shields was simply better than even more of everything at the cost of losing agility.

I prefer 3 PS 3 Defenders, with 7 health....

Triple Toilet seats is just another stupid anomaly that will pass as a fad when the kids who don't like to think go and find something else to exploit.

So a list where you not only need to keep the opponent in arc, but must do so at PS3 is a list where you 'don't need to think'?

What exactly is a list where you 'need to think' in your view?

One that isn't copypasta'd from the internet...

Triple Toilet seats is just another stupid anomaly that will pass as a fad when the kids who don't like to think go and find something else to exploit.

So a list where you not only need to keep the opponent in arc, but must do so at PS3 is a list where you 'don't need to think'?

What exactly is a list where you 'need to think' in your view?

One that isn't copypasta'd from the internet...

Yeah, you need to be a genius to come up with something unnatural like using 3 generics with the new toys, especially when those new toys come in the freaking box, chips are part of that expansion.

Sorry, but you seem to either lack sleep or coffee to make such a claim.

Triple Toilet seats is just another stupid anomaly that will pass as a fad when the kids who don't like to think go and find something else to exploit.

So a list where you not only need to keep the opponent in arc, but must do so at PS3 is a list where you 'don't need to think'?

What exactly is a list where you 'need to think' in your view?

One that isn't copypasta'd from the internet...

So by this assertion, all the popular lists, regardless of how they play, are lists where 'you don't need to think'?

Triple Toilet seats is just another stupid anomaly that will pass as a fad when the kids who don't like to think go and find something else to exploit.

So a list where you not only need to keep the opponent in arc, but must do so at PS3 is a list where you 'don't need to think'?

What exactly is a list where you 'need to think' in your view?

One that isn't copypasta'd from the internet...

Except that none of the "meta" builds are exactly hard to come up with on one's own. Much like GlitterBots or PalpAces, the pieces fall into place so well that anyone with 10 minutes and a card binder could come up with it. Just because someone is running one of those builds does not mean he has copy-pasted it from the internet. Not by any stretch.

Triple Toilet seats is just another stupid anomaly that will pass as a fad when the kids who don't like to think go and find something else to exploit.

So a list where you not only need to keep the opponent in arc, but must do so at PS3 is a list where you 'don't need to think'?

What exactly is a list where you 'need to think' in your view?

One that isn't copypasta'd from the internet...

Except that none of the "meta" builds are exactly hard to come up with on one's own. Much like GlitterBots or PalpAces, the pieces fall into place so well that anyone with 10 minutes and a card binder could come up with it. Just because someone is running one of those builds does not mean he has copy-pasted it from the internet. Not by any stretch.

Anyone who spend a few hours in any squad builder will come up with lists who had been build by heaver already before. ;-)

The more tricky part is to realize when the meta is right to actually use those list and to fly them properly and not waste the potential on the table.

Triple Toilet seats is just another stupid anomaly that will pass as a fad when the kids who don't like to think go and find something else to exploit.

So a list where you not only need to keep the opponent in arc, but must do so at PS3 is a list where you 'don't need to think'?

What exactly is a list where you 'need to think' in your view?

One that isn't copypasta'd from the internet...

So by this assertion, all the popular lists, regardless of how they play, are lists where 'you don't need to think'?

About list building, no...

Triple Toilet seats is just another stupid anomaly that will pass as a fad when the kids who don't like to think go and find something else to exploit.

So a list where you not only need to keep the opponent in arc, but must do so at PS3 is a list where you 'don't need to think'?

What exactly is a list where you 'need to think' in your view?

One that isn't copypasta'd from the internet...

So by this assertion, all the popular lists, regardless of how they play, are lists where 'you don't need to think'?

THe less you have to think to make list play well

the better chances you get on not making mistakes

the less strenuous tournaments become

and thus you'll make much much less mistakes in the finals

so YES, a hard-to-play list is less favourable by powergamers then dumb-as-hell "2hard-green+PTL" list or some other "boost away, shoot with butt outside of arc" wickedness.

so YES, a hard-to-play list is less favourable by powergamers then dumb-as-hell "2hard-green+PTL" list or some other "boost away, shoot with butt outside of arc" wickedness.

I don't think that's entirely true beyond maybe the lowest levels of competitive play.

An easy to play list has a high floor, but what you care about in a competitive environment is he ceiling. It doesn't matter that your list is so easy to play that a 3-year old can do it if the list at its peak (played perfectly) can't beat a mediocre Palp Aces player.

Having a list that's easier to play is an advantage, but ONLY if the list was good enough to begin with.

Also next FFG can focus on the OTHER ships that need some help................... Not sure which ship with 4 wings that could be.

Kagi is a good counter to the pancake stack. He can eat half the missiles. Maybe more with sensor jammer.

Wave 8 is the first really obvious power creep IMO. Other waves have added a few powerful cards, sometimes a little over the edge, but never such a plethora of improvement.

În what way is wave 8 power creep?

Well compare the 25 point Contracted Scout to the 27 point ORS or the 30 point Fringer. Comparable ships but a ton of advantages for the Scout in equipment and price. I think we can call this power creep...

Kagi is a good counter to the pancake stack. He can eat half the missiles. Maybe more with sensor jammer.

Well except if you run Carnor with him and he can keep all the Jumpys R1 without dying... Which is unlikely, plus you don't do that well vs other lists with That configuration.

Ahh that's right.