I think it is somewhat intentional

How else will ffg make money, plus it does keep the game fresh and they seem to like to change up the meta

Swarms were a thing

Then it was ace wing

Then turret wing

Etc etc

Ffg is a business and I'm sure it's all well thought out

They get to keep making ships

People will keep buying because "omg that is so awesome " and ffg makes money

A win win I guess, depending on how you look at it

The Ghost also lacks an EPT slot, this hinders it quite a bit,it can also go down relatively quickly to focus fire.

The TAP, the title is great, but doesn't help the lower pilot skills all the time.

The only potential problem/mistake I think was made was giving the Contracted Scout the EPT. Without Deadeye, triple JM5K would still be a thing, but no where near as meta changing (if it even is, it's hard to tell, but there seems to be a lot of counters already)

[...]

We now have 32 ships (37 if you count the scum separately from the rebs and imps and 41 if you count huge ships also) double the number of ships in Wave 4 when Rebel Aces came out. There is a lot of ships out there. A few have became top tier and everything else has either fallen from top or never reached it. There are plenty of ships that need an "update" it depends on how FFG is going to update those and in which order.

I know I'm mostly alone in this. But do we really need fixes/updates for every ship? I can't remember what goes with what now.

I'm sorry but the fix you fixed on your last fix will need a fix because it broke the fix before that.

I have no opinion on Chaardan Refit, but the Rebels seem to like it.

X1 title was needed really badly. That ship just couldn't cut it.

Integrated Astromech is good and helps the X-wing out without being broken. Needed? Maybe only at tournaments.

Guidance Chip and Long Range Scanners are fantastic for ordnance. I feel that was necessary.

The Defender titles aren't really necessary, but I think they are darn cool!

[...]

We now have 32 ships (37 if you count the scum separately from the rebs and imps and 41 if you count huge ships also) double the number of ships in Wave 4 when Rebel Aces came out. There is a lot of ships out there. A few have became top tier and everything else has either fallen from top or never reached it. There are plenty of ships that need an "update" it depends on how FFG is going to update those and in which order.

I know I'm mostly alone in this. But do we really need fixes/updates for every ship? I can't remember what goes with what now.

I'm sorry but the fix you fixed on your last fix will need a fix because it broke the fix before that.

I have no opinion on Chaardan Refit, but the Rebels seem to like it.

X1 title was needed really badly. That ship just couldn't cut it.

Integrated Astromech is good and helps the X-wing out without being broken. Needed? Maybe only at tournaments.

Guidance Chip and Long Range Scanners are fantastic for ordnance. I feel that was necessary.

The Defender titles aren't really necessary, but I think they are darn cool!

I too like many of the fixes and think some are cool. But at the same time the interactions and combinations are growing with each wave and the desire to buy one ship to boost another is getting a bit much. I like where the game is, or will soon be. And I'm looking forward to and X-Wing in a Veterans package. But as much as I like what's out there that doesn't change the never ending fix cycle. I don't know of a better alternative but I have mixed feelings on the current model.

So I like it but...

When I think a ship is overpowered I let my friends fly it. Why? Because even though I'm bad, they're even WORSE.

In all the store tournaments I've gone too I have been the only one running Defenders.

They were never "powerful" in the first place. From the price tag it just made you THINK it was powerful.

[...]

We now have 32 ships (37 if you count the scum separately from the rebs and imps and 41 if you count huge ships also) double the number of ships in Wave 4 when Rebel Aces came out. There is a lot of ships out there. A few have became top tier and everything else has either fallen from top or never reached it. There are plenty of ships that need an "update" it depends on how FFG is going to update those and in which order.

I know I'm mostly alone in this. But do we really need fixes/updates for every ship? I can't remember what goes with what now.

I'm sorry but the fix you fixed on your last fix will need a fix because it broke the fix before that.

I have no opinion on Chaardan Refit, but the Rebels seem to like it.

X1 title was needed really badly. That ship just couldn't cut it.

Integrated Astromech is good and helps the X-wing out without being broken. Needed? Maybe only at tournaments.

Guidance Chip and Long Range Scanners are fantastic for ordnance. I feel that was necessary.

The Defender titles aren't really necessary, but I think they are darn cool!

I too like many of the fixes and think some are cool. But at the same time the interactions and combinations are growing with each wave and the desire to buy one ship to boost another is getting a bit much. I like where the game is, or will soon be. And I'm looking forward to and X-Wing in a Veterans package. But as much as I like what's out there that doesn't change the never ending fix cycle. I don't know of a better alternative but I have mixed feelings on the current model.

So I like it but...

When I first bought into xwing there was only 3 waves out at the time, and for the most part was and is a lot of fun

But now looking back k and the amount I've spent has gotten me thinking

There is much better things that I can do with my time and money, and this will always be the cycle

Another wave to fix/update something else, whichin turn will lead to another fix and something else

But hey that's just me.

I'm also getting tired of being competitive, and when I get into something I enjoy and there is a competitive aspect to it, I tend to go over board.

I haven't even bought all wave 8 yet, and probably won't.

The waves are also getting more expensive due to currency rate etc here in Canada.

When I started playing a small ship was not more than 18 bucks, and bigger ships like the falcon was 35.

Now ships like the Ghost are 50-60 bucks and some small ships coats quite a bit (kwing were 27)

So with time and other variables the cost of ships are increasing along with the fixes for other ships

Like just to get the advanced up to par people had to buy a raider.

I mean that's a lot just to update a ship

Granted you got a cool looking ship, but even so many don't even get use out of it, because epic play isn't the main focus of most

(I at least got at least half dozen games with the raider)

...and next well get a scum large ship (probably 2) and included will be something that most will want.

(if history repeat itself the tantive has 3p0, and raider has emperor and scum will likely have something like jabba)

Wave 8 is the first really obvious power creep IMO. Other waves have added a few powerful cards, sometimes a little over the edge, but never such a plethora of improvement.

În what way is wave 8 power creep?

Ghost expansion

- The VCX itself. It is a big clumsy freighter, but can still take evade actions. And has a 1-turn. And a K-turn. And it can fire twice. And has a systems upgrade slot. And a primary attack of 4.

- Hera. Amazing ability. Many times better than Countess Ryad's.

- Kanan. Another strong ability, and its most obvious abuse has already made its way into the top of tournaments.

- Kanan (crew). For obvious reasons.

Inquisitor's TIE

- TIE Advanced prototype. It's a prototype for the TIE Advanced, yet it is better in almost every way. Green 1-turns, awesome. The boost is just icing on the cake.

- The Inquisitor. Another amazing pilot ability.

- The title. Free evade with every target lock? For 1 point? Yes, please.

- Guidance chips. Ok, this is a boost to something that was previously underpowered, so maybe not so much power creep as it is a fix.

Mist Hunter

- Adaptability. Amazing upgrade that makes sure every EPT slot is used for all eternity. And it gives you great flexibility.

- Zuckuss (crew). Cheap and almost auto include on a YV-666.

- 4-LOM (crew). Perfect for ace hunting with big ships.

Punishing One

- Jumpmaster. The perfect ordnance carrier. I don't think anyone has missed what impact its introduction had on the meta.

- Dengar (crew). Like predator, only better. And it doesn't take up an EPT slot.

- Contracted scout. Compare it to a Wild space fringer and tell me there is no power creep going on.

- Guidance chips. Already covered.

I'm sure I forgot something.

Please note that I am not calling any of the above OP. I am just pointing out the great number of strong pilots and upgrades that Wave 8 brought.

"- The VCX itself. It is a big clumsy freighter, but can still take evade actions. And has a 1-turn. And a K-turn. And it can fire twice. And has a systems upgrade slot. And a primary attack of 4."

Freighter with a great dial and the evade action? Like a certain Wave 2 ship?

Primary attack of 4 is mitigated by being a normal arced large ship. The other two normal arced large bases have either insane value (the Lambda comes at the cost of a TIE/x1 or X-wing) or insane maneuverability (Aggressor). The Ghost has neither without Hera and she doesn't come cheap. The VCX doesn't come cheap and keep its powerful abilities however you slice it. Might as well say the Raider is power creep because it fires twice at Range 2-4 with a 4 dice attack, has built in regen and runs other ships over, completely ignoring that it comes at 100 points off the bat.

"- Hera. Amazing ability. Many times better than Countess Ryad's."

That's the current design philosophy and has been since Wave 4: pilot abilities are free or they're crazy good.

"- Kanan. Another strong ability, and its most obvious abuse has already made its way into the top of tournaments."

Is it abuse when it was designed with that in mind and using Biggs with Kanan even was in the preview article? I've yet to see a Kanan Biggs win either: keeping the VCX in the Biggs bubble is a major impediment.

"- Kanan (crew). For obvious reasons."

Either fills a very valuable crew slot on a Rebel ship or has to operate on a R1-2 tether. It's less useful than it looks.

"- TIE Advanced prototype. It's a prototype for the TIE Advanced, yet it is better in almost every way. Green 1-turns, awesome. The boost is just icing on the cake."

Except durability, and this is the big one, ATTACK DICE. The TIE/x1 is packing either automatic double hits or for one point an extra attack die with crits on all sides. The TIE/x1 is an X-wing to the TIE/v1's A-wing, and you don't see arguments saying the A-wing outclasses the X-wing in almost all departments, do you?

"- The Inquisitor. Another amazing pilot ability."

A two dice ship at the price of three dice ships needs good offensive abilities to make it worthwhile, hence Valen's crazy action economy and Inquistor's R2-3 attack buff. You keep missing that the TIE/v1 is armed with a pea shooter.

"- The title. Free evade with every target lock? For 1 point? Yes, please."

A title only the TIE/v1 can take, a relatively high cost two dicer, and factored into its point cost and design. You're talking like you could stick that on any ship.

"- Adaptability. Amazing upgrade that makes sure every EPT slot is used for all eternity. And it gives you great flexibility."

Given a lot of ships paid for the priviledge of having the slot whether they used it or not, Adaptability does not constitute power creep. It's cost is opportunity: Adaptability fills the slot.

"- Zuckuss (crew). Cheap and almost auto include on a YV-666.

- 4-LOM (crew). Perfect for ace hunting with big ships."

Decent Scum crew priced cheaply because of their built in drawbacks.

"- Jumpmaster. The perfect ordnance carrier. I don't think anyone has missed what impact its introduction had on the meta."

Would you prefer a static, stale meta? It's a good alpha strike ship but people are already working out how to fight it.

"Dengar (crew). Like predator, only better. And it doesn't take up an EPT slot."

No, it takes up the much more valuable crew slot. And it's only better than Predator in an environment where Aces are dominating: against generic squads it's worse than Predator. It gives a less powerful effect than K4 Security Droid without the green move requirement. It hardly killed K4.

I don't like Dengar because it's a soul crushingly boring card, but it's not power creep.

"Contracted scout. Compare it to a Wild space fringer and tell me there is no power creep going on."

This is based on the frankly comedic assumption that Wild Space Fringer is correctly priced. Might as well call Wild Space Fringer powercreep on Outer Rim Smuggler, or just about any post Wave 4 ship powercreep on Knave Squadron Pilot.

"- Guidance chips. Already covered."

Ordnance fix.

Basically, your post amounts to "Wave 8 is power creep because it doesn't suck." Would you have perhaps prefered another Wave 7, where only the K-wing and its TLT got that far at all?

Countess Ryad/Glaive Sq w/ Juke, X7, and Tie Mk 2 is 35 points. A strong and efficient ship to be sure.

Power Creep would be if this ship is superior to all other options at the same/similar point cost.

So, is that ship better than Soontir Fel?

If the answer is no, then there is no Power Creep.

Slight power creep does exist, Crack Shot being superior to all other 1 cost cards would be an example. The Jumpmaster is another (they were a tad aggressive with the costing). But it is nowhere to the degree that it happens in other games, especially card games.

I too like many of the fixes and think some are cool. But at the same time the interactions and combinations are growing with each wave and the desire to buy one ship to boost another is getting a bit much. I like where the game is, or will soon be. And I'm looking forward to and X-Wing in a Veterans package. But as much as I like what's out there that doesn't change the never ending fix cycle. I don't know of a better alternative but I have mixed feelings on the current model.

So I like it but...

This right here, which is why I'm losing interest in this game

When I first bought into xwing there was only 3 waves out at the time, and for the most part was and is a lot of fun

But now looking back k and the amount I've spent has gotten me thinking

There is much better things that I can do with my time and money, and this will always be the cycle

Another wave to fix/update something else, whichin turn will lead to another fix and something else

But hey that's just me.

I'm also getting tired of being competitive, and when I get into something I enjoy and there is a competitive aspect to it, I tend to go over board.

I haven't even bought all wave 8 yet, and probably won't.

Hey! I know exactly what you are talking about! I have to say, though.....drop out of the competitive scene. Find a group of friends that like X-wing, but get tired of the competitive way of playing. If you can find people that want to play the game like you, it makes it all fun again. Play something like 200 pt Generics vs 200 Generics with no special ability. Make half of them X-wings and the other half Tie Fighters. Do a mission. Play the Heroes of the Aturi Cluster. That last one is excellent. Find some missions that are good on Mission Control.

There are a number of times that I've lost interest in the game due to the competitive scene. I've taken a step back and played non-tournament games. I've refound my mojo.

Countess Ryad/Glaive Sq w/ Juke, X7, and Tie Mk 2 is 35 points. A strong and efficient ship to be sure.

Power Creep would be if this ship is superior to all other options at the same/similar point cost.

So, is that ship better than Soontir Fel?

If the answer is no, then there is no Power Creep.

Slight power creep does exist, Crack Shot being superior to all other 1 cost cards would be an example. The Jumpmaster is another (they were a tad aggressive with the costing). But it is nowhere to the degree that it happens in other games, especially card games.

Look, it's not that I don't agree with you but your argument just isn't logical and I can't abide by that.

You say that Countess Ryad isn't power creep if she isn't stronger than Soontir Fel, but that isn't true. She can still be power creep provided that she is stronger than other ships you could field alongside Soontir Fel, due to the fact that Soontir Fel is unique and will not compose a 100 point list by himself.

I'm not saying you're wrong, just that your argument is.

As someone who flies the Inquisitor a lot, I don't see Ryad as overpowered whatsoever.

For 3 more points than the typical Inquisitor loadout, you get:

+2 health

- boost and access to autothrusters

- 3 Pilot Skill

Against any ace or sub-ace (hell, even a Royal Guard Pilot), Ryad is a 35-point punching bag.

Her repositioning is decent, but she's still very susceptible to getting caught in front of a Crack Swarm or 4BZ lists.

TLTs, Dash, and PWTs will shred her apart.

Ryad is powerful - yes. But to say she's better than 35-point Soontir, Vader, or Inquisitor (PRockets)?

Not sure I can say that with confidence. I think she's on par with those options.

Hobo!!!!

Here be some heresy.

Cheers

Baaa

I just don't see Countess Ryad's ability as game breaking or OP in any way. I mean, does anyone consider Boba Fett's ability game breaking? It's not that far from that ability.

Please note that I am not calling any of the above OP. I am just pointing out the great number of strong pilots and upgrades that Wave 8 brought.

This part seems to have gotten lost in space.

I don't think Ryad is going to be as great as many think

Like other things before it, a lot of hype when the preview comes out, but then once it's releases will just fade away

Edit

I guess with that said she is 1 PS less than a glaive, so she may do alright

So instead of using a glaive at ps6 go with Ryad at ps5

The mid range PS usually is hit of miss

You'll be up against ps1-3 or 7-9

Time will tell

Please note that I am not calling any of the above OP. I am just pointing out the great number of strong pilots and upgrades that Wave 8 brought.

This part seems to have gotten lost in space.

No, we all read that. We're contesting the assertion of power creep, not imbalance.

You can mail me your stuff if your done :-p

The Defender is more in line with what people need from it to be playable. If you could shot an HLC and have a primary atk then we would talk but for now, I think we are going to see them in torny play and that makes me happy. Also next FFG can focus on the OTHER ships that need some help................... Not sure which ship with 4 wings that could be.

I'm glad wave 8 gave us awesome ships and pilots and upgrades! Triple Toilet seats is just another stupid anomaly that will pass as a fad when the kids who don't like to think go and find something else to exploit. Just like TLT, TIE Phantoms, PWTs, TIE Swarm, ect.

Also, I'm in love with Imperial Veterans and can't wait for EVERYTHING in that box! Bombers and Defenders forever! Until GUNBOAT, that is.

Indeed. Calling the TIE/x7 a 'chaardan refit' super-A-wing, and the TIE/D a 'BTL-A4' super-y-wing is a nice way to think about it, but in both cases, you're talking about practically 2-1 odds and the cheaper ships still have advantages.

I fly a TIE swarm, so I feel the 2-dice-attack-pain, but the A-wing does at least have the pretty-****-nicely-priced Proton Rockets up its sleeve. 5 attack dice and a 'free' elite pilot talent slot for Crack Shot is into 'dodge this!' territory.

Not to mention that the x7 essentially fills up 3 slots, although the BTL-A4 title takes more away from the upgrade it is not restricted by point scale. Where as the option to not take any titles is still a valid option (unlike some ships where the title becomes an auto include).

Countess Ryad/Glaive Sq w/ Juke, X7, and Tie Mk 2 is 35 points. A strong and efficient ship to be sure.

Power Creep would be if this ship is superior to all other options at the same/similar point cost.

So, is that ship better than Soontir Fel?

If the answer is no, then there is no Power Creep.

Slight power creep does exist, Crack Shot being superior to all other 1 cost cards would be an example. The Jumpmaster is another (they were a tad aggressive with the costing). But it is nowhere to the degree that it happens in other games, especially card games.

Look, it's not that I don't agree with you but your argument just isn't logical and I can't abide by that.

You say that Countess Ryad isn't power creep if she isn't stronger than Soontir Fel, but that isn't true. She can still be power creep provided that she is stronger than other ships you could field alongside Soontir Fel, due to the fact that Soontir Fel is unique and will not compose a 100 point list by himself.

I'm not saying you're wrong, just that your argument is.

Sure, but I'm not really convinced that Countess Ryad IS more powerful than the other ships you can put in your list for similar point costs. Ryad with Evade title and Predator is super solid at 35pts; 35pts also buys you Vader with VI, while 31pts buys you Inquisitor and 29pts buys you Omega Leader with a Stealth Device, all of whom would eat up Countess in a 1v1 fight.

That said, X-Wing isn't about 1v1 fights (until the end game), so it's a little hard to know that Countess Ryad is worth more or less than the pilots who would probably defeat her in a 1v1. White K-Turns and actionless evade tokens are real powerful, but in order to assert power creep, we have to conclude that it's MORE powerful at PS5 than the abilities of post-fix Vader, Omega Leader, or Inquisitor who operate at a higher PS, for a cheaper cost (in 2 out of the 3 cases).

Seems like she's right in line with the rest of the aces. Strong and efficient, but with in a sturdier ship at the expense of lower PS.

I'm not really seeing the creep.

TLTs ... will shred her apart.

I agree with most of your post, good sir, I just disagree with this part here.

Why does everyone assert that Imperial ships without autothrusters get "shredded apart" by TLTs? I mean, kinda, if you fly directly into Quad TLTs without any support from the rest of your 100pt list, but a 35pt Countess with Evade Title and Predator EPT would probably win a fight vs 50pts worth of TLT Y-Wings. I don't really consider that to be at a huge disadvantage against them.

I see Ryad like Blue Ace. Lots of potential, but low PS is a killer. Her one saving grace is an EPT.

Defenders are looking like a great ship now, a jouster that can legitimately joust. Not OP, just strong if you face it head on. This is what Xwings and Bwings are suppose to be. Ships feared in head on combat, but like Vader did to Xwings in Epi IV, flank em, get on their arse, and blow them to smithereens.

The pack does have some clear power creep tho.

Tomax Bren is complete power creep compared to Rhymer!

/sarcasm

Sure, but I'm not really convinced that Countess Ryad IS more powerful than the other ships you can put in your list for similar point costs. Ryad with Evade title and Predator is super solid at 35pts; 35pts also buys you Vader with VI, while 31pts buys you Inquisitor and 29pts buys you Omega Leader with a Stealth Device, all of whom would eat up Countess in a 1v1 fight.

I've had the same thought since the preview hit. I'm not yet convinced that this pack will make much difference for the defender and its viability. It's too easy to telegram their three moves and block/position to accommodate it. Moreover, most pilots are still overcosted for what they bring. I'm still not convinced of Stele's tax compared to him with ATC in a Tie Advanced.