The clarification was made for movement actions only since they affect range/arc.

It affects non-movement actions too - whether Rudor gets a focus or evade before the second attack now depends on initiative.

Anyone else catch the bit about Autothrusters not working against the Inquisitor (primary attack anyway)?

It was in the last FAQ too, with the justification that Autothrusters uses attack range -- which was contradicted in that same FAQ by the new instructions on how to read "in arc at Range X". This FAQ removes that justification but leaves the ruling itself.

While the ruling kind of screws Rudor over, this was probably done to prevent Dengar from counterattacking an uncloaked Whisper. Assuming a Whisper player has initiative, if "after defending" is before "after attacking" (see the previous faq for the precedent Rudor set) then Dengar would get to shoot back before Whisper could cloak and get her focus token. Deciding it by initiative is probably the best way to fix that interaction, at least with the way the rules are currently written.

Before, Valen Rudor always got to boost out of range. Now he only gets to boost out of range if he has initiative.

... If he doesn't have initiative, does he get two actions after the second attack due to nesting?

That's....oww, my bran...

(Still haven't quite completely wrapped my head around the reason that initiative matters...you'd think that you'd always resolve one attack, completely, before moving on to the next attack...regardless of initiative. ?I guess not?)

I wonder if the second attack is treated like an effect that happens at the same time than Rudor's ability.

I mean, after the first attack completes, two effects trigger at the exact same time:

- Perform the second attack (Gunner, Luke, TLT)

- Rudor ability.

Both effects trigger at the same time, but the game resolves them one at a time, and the order is determined first by player initiative, then in the order chosen by the player.

So if the attacking player has initiative, it seems the whole combat would look like this:

- First attack

- Second attack

- Rudor's ability

- Rudor's ability

But if Rudor's player has initiative, the combat would be like this:

- First attack

- Rudor's ability

- Second attack

- Rudor's ability

Or am I mistaken?

My reading of it is that it only affects when you measure for the second attack (i.e. if he has initiative he moves and the attack must be remeasured, f he doesn't, the attack goes ahead with the previous range and arc) but I don't think that it's clear even now.

They just don't seem to GET Valen's rules interactions, or they don't seem to be able to clarify them.

And this new clarification doesn't mention Tactician at all AFAICT, which is one of the bigger interaction.

While the ruling kind of screws Rudor over, this was probably done to prevent Dengar from counterattacking an uncloaked Whisper. Assuming a Whisper player has initiative, if "after defending" is before "after attacking" (see the previous faq for the precedent Rudor set) then Dengar would get to shoot back before Whisper could cloak and get her focus token. Deciding it by initiative is probably the best way to fix that interaction, at least with the way the rules are currently written.

And now it's initiative based, as it should be. If Dengar has init he gets to shoot back at Whisper before she can recloak and focus.

And Dengar would get to shoot back at Valen before Valen could move if Dengar had init too.

But that shouldn't change the fact that there's an explicit 'after attacking/defending' point between Cluster Missile and TLT shots, per the FAQ on Vader crew, which allows things to happen between shots, and should allow Valen to move between shots.

I.e. Cluster Missiles' and TLTs' second attacks aren't triggered by anything, they just... happen... so after defending/after attacking triggers must be able to interrupt and take place fully in between.

Otherwise theoretically you could miss with your first TLT/Cluster, trigger Gunner, choose the order of resolution, then shoot your second TLT then get your Gunner primary.

This ruling is really freaking wonky.

Still no clarification on whether Boba Fett-ing away a torpedo or missile with an extra muntions token on it prevents just one or both shots. :-\

I was in doubt too, but re-reading the extra munitions card makes it clear. When you are instructed to discard a card instead discard a munitions token instead, or something along those lines is what it says.

There is a thread on the rules forum that says otherwise.

I guess it depends on which upgrade card you want to focus on. Extra Munitions or Boba Fet<crew>.

FFG should have cleared that up, if not on the Boba Fet card then at least on Extra Munitions since Munitions Failure in the old damage deck is still in effect. in addition to the font problems.

Yep think overall FFG needs to tidy up.

Dengar pilot

Valen Rudar

VCX rear-arc counting for autothrusters or not.

And full sequence if when Attacking and when Defending.

Yep think overall FFG needs to tidy up.

Dengar pilot

Valen Rudar

VCX rear-arc counting for autothrusters or not.

Overall I think FFG need to do some serious rules writing when it comes to the possible timing windows, and then not invent any more for a while.

One of the most difficult things about this wave from a rules interpretation perspective was the addition of 'after defending' as a timing window without explicitly stating anywhere whether it's the same window for the purposes of timing conflicts as 'after attacking', and whether it's different from the timing window for Tactician or Vader crew etc etc.

And yeah the VCX rear arc needs FAQing. I mean, I know how I think it works, and I know how I play it, but I know a lot of people don't agree with my view.

Otherwise theoretically you could miss with your first TLT/Cluster, trigger Gunner, choose the order of resolution, then shoot your second TLT then get your Gunner primary.

This ruling is really freaking wonky.

Edit: also the rule clarification says you don't declare the target a second time; does that mean you don't have to adjust the range if Rudor has moved? Measuring range is under the Declare Target step...

I.e. Cluster Missiles' and TLTs' second attacks aren't triggered by anything, they just... happen... so after defending/after attacking triggers must be able to interrupt and take place fully in between.

Otherwise theoretically you could miss with your first TLT/Cluster, trigger Gunner, choose the order of resolution, then shoot your second TLT then get your Gunner primary.

This ruling is really freaking wonky.

I would say that the new paragraph explaining what "Attack twice" means is there to explicitly state that the second attack is, in fact, triggered after performing the first attack.

And that you should treat it as any other game effect that is subject to initiative (as seen in Rudor's ruling).

"After you perform this attack for the first time, perform another attack against the same target using this weapon"

But yes, you are right: that would allow for triggering of Gunner after the first attack of TLT, but delay its resolution until after the second attack of TLT.

However, I think the FAQ of Cluster Missiles and Munitions Failsafe would be applied as a precendent here:

"If a ship is equipped with Cluster Missiles and Munitions Failsafe, both attacks must miss for Munitions Failsafe to activate."

For Gunner to trigger, an attack needs to miss, and Cluster Missiles miss if both attacks miss, by its FAQ entry.

The same you could say about Twin Laser Turret. For Gunner to trigger, the attack must miss, and both TLT attacks must miss in order to trigger Gunner.

Makes sense?

In any case, this would probably need its own FAQ entry.

that's a funny way to spell Hot Shot Blaster

I.e. Cluster Missiles' and TLTs' second attacks aren't triggered by anything, they just... happen... so after defending/after attacking triggers must be able to interrupt and take place fully in between.

Otherwise theoretically you could miss with your first TLT/Cluster, trigger Gunner, choose the order of resolution, then shoot your second TLT then get your Gunner primary.

This ruling is really freaking wonky.

I would say that the new paragraph explaining what "Attack twice" means is there to explicitly state that the second attack is, in fact, triggered after performing the first attack.

And that you should treat it as any other game effect that is subject to initiative (as seen in Rudor's ruling).

"After you perform this attack for the first time, perform another attack against the same target using this weapon"

But yes, you are right: that would allow for triggering of Gunner after the first attack of TLT, but delay its resolution until after the second attack of TLT.

However, I think the FAQ of Cluster Missiles and Munitions Failsafe would be applied as a precendent here:

"If a ship is equipped with Cluster Missiles and Munitions Failsafe, both attacks must miss for Munitions Failsafe to activate."

For Gunner to trigger, an attack needs to miss, and Cluster Missiles miss if both attacks miss, by its FAQ entry.

The same you could say about Twin Laser Turret. For Gunner to trigger, the attack must miss, and both TLT attacks must miss in order to trigger Gunner.

Makes sense?

In any case, this would probably need its own FAQ entry.

No, the reason why Munitions Failsafe interacts the way it does with CM is because MF says 'do not discard unless the attack hits' - so it only has to hit once to be discarded (or to put it another way, it has to miss with both to be retained). Whereas Gunner just says 'miss with an attack' and TLT/Cluster is explicitly two attacks, either of which can be missed with.

I guess the reason Gunner doesn't work this way is because it says 'immediately perform' which overrides initiative? But I don't know why Gunner should interrupt TLT/Cluster and Valen shouldn't.

I guess the reason Gunner doesn't work this way is because it says 'immediately perform' which overrides initiative? But I don't know why Gunner should interrupt TLT/Cluster and Valen shouldn't.

Good point!

Yes, I find the FAQ entry for Rudor contradicting what "immediately" should mean in Gunner, if Rudor can still act before it happens only because it has innitiative.

When performing the second attack, the

weapon and target are not declared again as they remain the same, and any

cost for the attacks is not paid again

Hmmm. Were people using stresshog to pile 3 tokens on?

I guess the reason Gunner doesn't work this way is because it says 'immediately perform' which overrides initiative? But I don't know why Gunner should interrupt TLT/Cluster and Valen shouldn't.

Well, according to what's been written, the second attack of a 2-part attack is a timing trigger off of the first attack.

If the first attack misses, you should trigger both Gunner and the 2nd attack, at which point the resolution of the timing is up to you.

If you (naively) choose to resolve Gunner first, per Gunner text you can't resolve the other attack, and this is all that's been said in the FAQ until now.

But you should be able to resolve the 2nd attack and then the Gunner attack off of the first miss without a problem.

The "immediately" clause doesn't interrupt anything.

Or, you could interpret that it does interrupt things that don't have the word "immediately". In which case you can't trigger Bossk crew, Tactician, FCS, etc before the Gunner attack takes place.

I guess the reason Gunner doesn't work this way is because it says 'immediately perform' which overrides initiative? But I don't know why Gunner should interrupt TLT/Cluster and Valen shouldn't.

Well, according to what's been written, the second attack of a 2-part attack is a timing trigger off of the first attack.

If the first attack misses, you should trigger both Gunner and the 2nd attack, at which point the resolution of the timing is up to you.

If you (naively) choose to resolve Gunner first, per Gunner text you can't resolve the other attack, and this is all that's been said in the FAQ until now.

But you should be able to resolve the 2nd attack and then the Gunner attack off of the first miss without a problem.

The "immediately" clause doesn't interrupt anything.

Or, you could interpret that it does interrupt things that don't have the word "immediately". In which case you can't trigger Bossk crew, Tactician, FCS, etc before the Gunner attack takes place.

As I say, I don't think this new Valen FAQ actually clarifies anything, and only muddies previously clear interactions in other cases.

Ugh.

As I say, I don't think this new Valen FAQ actually clarifies anything, and only muddies previously clear interactions in other cases.

Ugh.

It's the new section, "Perform this attack twice" on page 5, which says that it explicitly means, "After you perform this attack for the first time, ..." which gives those attacks a timing window equal to all the other stuff. They need a timing window, no question, and I'm personally a supporter of this definition, but it's always messy when you insert something like this.

And no rules about what "immediately" means. Current guess is it means nothing.

That said, if you take Tactician TLT and forget to give a stress after the first attack, your opponent can no longer argue "missed opportunity", because you have the same timing window for giving the stress and performing the second attack, so you can now perform both attacks then hand out 2 stress.

(That's a bad argument in the first place, because mandatory effects like Tactician shouldn't follow the missed opportunity clause, but I don't doubt certain people have tried it)

Well, I did post it already about 30 minutes ago, based on what I saw on reddit.

Eh - I searched, didn't find a reference?

Also: just me, or is this a pretty massive TLT nerf...

When a card effect instructs you to perform an attack twice, it means: “After you perform this attack for the first time, perform another attack against the same target using this weapon.”

So...kill a target with your first shot, no second shot?

Umm... Have people been playing it this way against you? Pretty sure that was never meant to be how it was played.

You only declare the target once with the TLT.

Well, I did post it already about 30 minutes ago, based on what I saw on reddit.

Eh - I searched, didn't find a reference?

Also: just me, or is this a pretty massive TLT nerf...

When a card effect instructs you to perform an attack twice, it means: “After you perform this attack for the first time, perform another attack against the same target using this weapon.”

So...kill a target with your first shot, no second shot?

That's how it has always worked

Yar thar be some rules bloat thar Billies!

Seriously, timing windows? Initiative determining whose abilities trigger at what time during attack windows? Fett Crew vs Anything? Immediately?

What is normal? What is home?

What are cows?!

edit: This is how Boba Fett crew card works now...

Trandoshan Slaver: Boba :hiss: I have hired you to help me bring in a Bounty! This pilot has a large price on his head :hiss: how have you chosen to help me in this imminent :hiss: battle?

Boba Fett (GGBH): I have planted a bomb on their ship. It will detonate and cripple a key component allowing you to swoop in and claim victory.

TS: Ah :hisshiss: very good Boba Fett, you truly are the greatest of them all. WHich key system did you choose to target?

BFGGBH: Sabacc table.

Still no clarification on whether Boba Fett-ing away a torpedo or missile with an extra muntions token on it prevents just one or both shots. :-\

I was in doubt too, but re-reading the extra munitions card makes it clear. When you are instructed to discard a card instead discard a munitions token instead, or something along those lines is what it says.

There is a thread on the rules forum that says otherwise.

I guess it depends on which upgrade card you want to focus on. Extra Munitions or Boba Fet<crew>.

FFG should have cleared that up, if not on the Boba Fet card then at least on Extra Munitions since Munitions Failure in the old damage deck is still in effect. in addition to the font problems.

Boba Fett and Munitions Failure work differently though. Munitions Failure instructs the player with it to discard a secondary weapon upgrade which triggers Extra Munitions. Boba Fett is written in such a way that the ship with Fett is the one discarding his target's upgrade, which does not trigger Extra Munitions.

Boba Fett and Munitions Failure work differently though. Munitions Failure instructs the player with it to discard a secondary weapon upgrade which triggers Extra Munitions. Boba Fett is written in such a way that the ship with Fett is the one discarding his target's upgrade, which does not trigger Extra Munitions.

As with cards instructing an opponent to roll dice, FFG does not want players reaching across the table and handling another players cards or dice.

Boba Fett should almost certainly be read as "instructing your opponent to discard" the chosen card. (Or, more generally, just as an opponent always rolls his own dice, an opponent will always discard his own cards.)

Fett will therefore discard the Extra Munitions token. Simple and clean.

As with cards instructing an opponent to roll dice, FFG does not want players reaching across the table and handling another players cards or dice.

Except at the Hoth Open they had players share dice and had provision for sharing templates if one was "different", which is problematic. I still find the argument of different sized templates interesting. Even cardboard ones have variation and are produced by FFG. As acrylic can be cut more precisely and doesn't have shrink or warp issues, perhaps they should issue the Marshals a standard sized acrylic set that players have to check templates against... and only do it at entry, not each round of the tournament.

As for handling dice, I'm with Paul Heaver on that one... I really don't want to have someone putting their hands all over mine and I really don't want to pick up theirs. Thanks.

Wish they clarified the V1 title and PTL interaction. Can you still get the evade if you used the target lock for your second action with PTL?

So how does the attack twice change affect the new blinded pilot? Do I get to make my second attack with TLT now or do I still skip it?