This is the same thing with Tarn Mison and Red Squadrons. Both cost 23 points, Tarn is PS 3 and has a nuts ability, Red Squadrons lose that nuts ability in exchange for PS 4.

Not normally worth it. I agree with you OP. But it's not really that big of a deal, all it means is that if you're taking one Defender you go with the Countess. If you're flying multiples, you pick the Countess and Glaives. Just like If I'm flying one X-Wing I'll pick Tarn, and if I want multiples I tack Red Squadrons onto Tarn.

Other ships have pilots like this too. They only vary by a point or two but one is autoinclude while the other is pretty much only there if you've already picked the autoinclude one. Juno, Carnor, Avenger Squadron Pilot vs. A Saber Squadron Pilot, etc.

Part of the thing for Tarn is that his nuts ability only becomes REALLY nuts when he has a 2-point astromech equipped. Red Squadron pilots have a broader Astromech selection to choose from.

Part of the thing for Tarn is that his nuts ability only becomes REALLY nuts when he has a 2-point astromech equipped.

True but if I have 25 points for a X-Wing he's the first option I consider.

For 25 points you'll not find many T-65's that do better. Naked Biggs is an option, but Red Squadron or even a Rookie it going to be hard pressed to be better options.

Myself I fail to see why this is an issue though. Named ships have a the issue of being unique so they can be a bit better than generics for the same price.

I just don't get why people think Generics should be a staple of X-Wing in the first place, there was a time in which we all discussed what to do to get named pilots into the game. Now we have that and people want to go back to what is IMO the bad old days of generic wing.

To me, the best role for Glaives is as a pair of PS8 wingmen for VI Vessery. You can fit all three with x7 titles for 100 points.

Or run Vessery and the Glaive with Adaptability, which frees up two points for a Juking Countess. Vess and the Glaive can either drop to PS5 to sync up with the Countess, or push up to PS7.

This is the same thing with Tarn Mison and Red Squadrons. Both cost 23 points, Tarn is PS 3 and has a nuts ability, Red Squadrons lose that nuts ability in exchange for PS 4.

Not normally worth it. I agree with you OP. But it's not really that big of a deal, all it means is that if you're taking one Defender you go with the Countess. If you're flying multiples, you pick the Countess and Glaives. Just like If I'm flying one X-Wing I'll pick Tarn, and if I want multiples I tack Red Squadrons onto Tarn.

Other ships have pilots like this too. They only vary by a point or two but one is autoinclude while the other is pretty much only there if you've already picked the autoinclude one. Juno, Carnor, Avenger Squadron Pilot vs. A Saber Squadron Pilot, etc.

Part of the thing for Tarn is that his nuts ability only becomes REALLY nuts when he has a 2-point astromech equipped. Red Squadron pilots have a broader Astromech selection to choose from.

Which Astromech?

I fully intended to run Glaives at 34pts until I saw Countess and Steele. Now it seems like you run Countess if you don't care about the PS bump, and if you care about the PS Bump, you dig deep and find 1 extra point in order to run Vessery with VI (and squadies who can support his ability) or Marek with an the EPT of your choice and chill out at PS7. With great options here at PS5, PS7, and PS8, I see no reason to run the PS6 Generic unless Countess is already in the list, or you really, really, really don't have that 1 extra point to spare, which is hard to imagine.

It's not that Glaive Squadrons aren't good for their price, they'd be GREAT, it's just that there's a totally superior option for the same price and two significant upgrades for just a point more.

Too bad. I really love nameless faceless pilots. Love me some anonymous henchmen.

Here's what I'm looking at as the most likely way Glaives get into a list.

1. You want two Defenders

2. PS6 has some utility

3. You want to keep both pilots the same PS for movement flexibility

4. That extra point matters.

This is the same thing with Tarn Mison and Red Squadrons. Both cost 23 points, Tarn is PS 3 and has a nuts ability, Red Squadrons lose that nuts ability in exchange for PS 4.

Not normally worth it. I agree with you OP. But it's not really that big of a deal, all it means is that if you're taking one Defender you go with the Countess. If you're flying multiples, you pick the Countess and Glaives. Just like If I'm flying one X-Wing I'll pick Tarn, and if I want multiples I tack Red Squadrons onto Tarn.

Other ships have pilots like this too. They only vary by a point or two but one is autoinclude while the other is pretty much only there if you've already picked the autoinclude one. Juno, Carnor, Avenger Squadron Pilot vs. A Saber Squadron Pilot, etc.

Part of the thing for Tarn is that his nuts ability only becomes REALLY nuts when he has a 2-point astromech equipped. Red Squadron pilots have a broader Astromech selection to choose from.

Which Astromech?

R7 Astromech. Tarn's ability gives him a target lock on anyone who declares they're attacking him. The R7 lets him spend a target lock once per round to force the attacker to reroll their attack dice. Between the two, it makes actually hitting Tarn into a very frustrating task.

Here's what I'm looking at as the most likely way Glaives get into a list.

1. You want two Defenders - I mean...what about other named Defenders, for 1pt more? Go on...

2. PS6 has some utility - Meeeh... Kinda. BroBots still around here, somewhere?

3. You want to keep both pilots the same PS for movement flexibility - Vessery with Adaptability and shoot before Countess fires her TL?

4. That extra point matters. - Upgrading to a named Defender for 1pt is a REALLY good use of 1pt, and if you have TL buddies for Vessery, VI on him maybe cheaper than the Glaive with the 3pt EPT. You'd have to be a crazy tight list for every 1pt to matter more than a named pilot here.

Responses in bold. Again, love me those generic Glaives. I think with Evade title and Predator they'd be outright MONSTERS at 35pts a pop...but now I just want Countess and Steele, instead.

To me, the best role for Glaives is as a pair of PS8 wingmen for VI Vessery. You can fit all three with x7 titles for 100 points.

Why isn't one of those Glaives piloted by Steele with Adaptability for the same PT cost, so you can free roll with a 0 cost pilot ability? Also PS8.

Not trying to be a Debbie Downer, I do not think Glaives are overcosted even a bit. I just think Countess, Steele and Vessery are outclassing them for a point increase that's too minimal to ignore.

Sometimes you just don't have that extra point

How many times has everyone come up with a list and your 1-2 pts over?

Sometimes you just got make due

I know there been lots of times I'd be sitting at 28pts and try to think what to fit in.

Couple ties maybe, or maybe just jax, or a royal guard with some upgrades.

For me now it's a delta.

(depending on the list but that 28pt delta is pretty sweet)

Also idk, I like the green kturn, but I'm wondering if it'll be as good as some are thinking.

As I recall there been a lot of hype over some things (stay on target for one and Juno) But after the fact, you never heard anymore talk about them

Then again maybe it'll kickass

I can't help still love vessery with a tractor beam.

Time will tell

I actually think this is a good place for a high ps ept generic.

Its on the same continuoum as the named pilots, with a "pilot ability" of reducing dengars effect and being able to fly multiple ships at once.

I said this in the other thread:

As the meat in a Zuckuss Dengar Crew sandwich, I see the merit of the generic pilot. The point of a new release was to give new options, I don't see these new pilots making the old ones obsolete. The titles alone make for some compelling lists even at a low PS bid and no pilot ability.

LOLOLOL take all of my likes.

LOLOLOL take all of my likes.

#flycasual

What?!

Generic Defenders are great!

2x Deltas w/ ion cannon, mk ii engine, TIE/D

1x Delta w/ tractor beam, mk ii engine, TIE/D

Play against that before judging them so harshly.

I played 3 games against the AI with this (and I am a newbie, so it is an even matchup). Won two of them. Lost to a Y-Wing K-Wing turret list, destroyed my Arc Dodger list, and then beat this list:

Bossk + Calculation + Outlaw Tech + Recon Specialist + K4 Security Droid + Heavy Laser Cannon

Graz the Hunter

Binayre Pirate

Binayre Pirate

Not sure what to call that.

Forum still needs a dislike button.

Because Rexlar can go to ps 10, and is well loved by us now "old" defender players.

True but if I have 25 points for a X-Wing he's the first option I consider.For 25 points you'll not find many T-65's that do better. Naked Biggs is an option, but Red Squadron or even a Rookie it going to be hard pressed to be better options.

Tangent- red r2d6 crack shot IA

If you want a cry case, look at the Onyx. That one is worth crying for years.

Onyx will see more table time now. PS 3, shoots before TLT Y-wings, 2 points cheaper than Glaives. If all you want is a cheap ship with a cannon, or a 28 point blocker with good action economy you need the Onyx or Delta that come in the original expansion. Onyx and Deltas are the big winners here.

Glaives are obsolete before they hit stores. Some guy will use them in 1 list to try to prove they aren't but then they'll just fade away into obscurity. And X-7 Glaive before TIE Mk.II is the same price as Soontir with PTL and Autothrusters. A 33 point Glaive could have meant a PS 7 Defender D with Flechette for the same price as Vessery stock. Two of them + Vader would have been something.

Look at Vessery and Maarek. Vessery's ability makes him the same cost as Maarek. Vessery's ability is a 2 point ability.

But the Glaives without Vessery's ability are only 1 point less. If you have 2 Glaives, you are going to be able to find 2 freaking points.

One of those X7s in the preview list can use the last point to upgradeto Vessery. Drop the other Glaive to a Delta and you can trick Vessery out with Flechette or Tractor and a 1 point ept.

The thing is, this is a brilliant money grubbing move on their part. Onyx and Delta only come in the Defender expansion.

You need to buy 3 Defender Expansions and 2 Veterans Expansions to field 3 Defender Ds.

If you want a cry case, look at the Onyx. That one is worth crying for years.

Onyx will see more table time now. PS 3, shoots before TLT Y-wings, 2 points cheaper than Glaives. If all you want is a cheap ship with a cannon, or a 28 point blocker with good action economy you need the Onyx or Delta that come in the original expansion. Onyx and Deltas are the big winners here.

Glaives are obsolete before they hit stores. Some guy will use them in 1 list to try to prove they aren't but then they'll just fade away into obscurity. And X-7 Glaive before TIE Mk.II is the same price as Soontir with PTL and Autothrusters. A 33 point Glaive could have meant a PS 7 Defender D with Flechette for the same price as Vessery stock. Two of them + Vader would have been something.

Look at Vessery and Maarek. Vessery's ability makes him the same cost as Maarek. Vessery's ability is a 2 point ability.

But the Glaives without Vessery's ability are only 1 point less. If you have 2 Glaives, you are going to be able to find 2 freaking points.

One of those X7s in the preview list can use the last point to upgradeto Vessery. Drop the other Glaive to a Delta and you can trick Vessery out with Flechette or Tractor and a 1 point ept.

The thing is, this is a brilliant money grubbing move on their part. Onyx and Delta only come in the Defender expansion.

You need to buy 3 Defender Expansions and 2 Veterans Expansions to field 3 Defender Ds.

IMO just a plain build consisting 3 VI/Crackshot X7 Glaives can disrupt a lot of builds. Royal Guards couldn't achieve this due to their brittle, mod-dependent ships, but 18 HP behind 3 Agi and Evade tokens is a tough nut to crack. Of course, you can also change 1 to Ryad and/or spend that last 1 point to upgrade one of them to Maarek.

Here's an example of a list I was thinking about a few weeks ago that works with Glaives, but not others, as much.

Delta, Engine Upgrade, x7 32

Glaive, x7, Juke 34

Glaive, x7, Juke 34

100 points

There isn't really points free to use Vessery or Maarek. You could drop to Ryad, but it's reasonable to stay at PS 6, and there's a place for at least one Glaive in the list even with Ryad as one if the Defenders.

Glaive Squadron Pilot — TIE Defender 34

Crack Shot 1

TIE/x7 -2

Ship Total: 33

Glaive Squadron Pilot — TIE Defender 34

Crack Shot 1

TIE/x7 -2

Ship Total: 33

Colonel Vessery — TIE Defender 35

Crack Shot 1

TIE/x7 -2

Ship Total: 34

Where to find that one point to upgrade those glaives to named... I don't wanna give up the uniformity of PS and I don't wanna give up crackshot.... What to do, what to do. It's suppose to be so easy!

Glaive Squadron Pilot — TIE Defender 34

Crack Shot 1

TIE/x7 -2

Ship Total: 33

Glaive Squadron Pilot — TIE Defender 34

Crack Shot 1

TIE/x7 -2

Ship Total: 33

Colonel Vessery — TIE Defender 35

Crack Shot 1

TIE/x7 -2

Ship Total: 34

Where to find that one point to upgrade those glaives to named... I don't wanna give up the uniformity of PS and I don't wanna give up crackshot.... What to do, what to do. It's suppose to be so easy!

I even think there's an argument for 3 Glaives instead of 2+Vessery. The 1 point bid gives you a big advantage in the mirror match, even if it might be slightly weaker against some other lists.